Iron Mike Tyson admits he would not have been prepared for Royce Gracie in 1993

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by the ambush, Feb 24, 2018.

  1. sdss

    sdss Brown Belt

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    I don't agree that sprawling is instinctive. I don't think it's harder to complete a takedown on a boxer, even a skilled boxer, than it is on an experienced wrestler. The wrestler has experience stopping takedowns and the boxer doesn't. I'm not even sure how anyone can claim otherwise.

    And I did address Tyson's power. I said several times he has a better chance of hurting Royce if he lands. I just don't think he has that much more of a chance of landing, especially not with power, when he encounters a double leg takedown for the first time in his life.
     
  2. ticho123

    ticho123 Black Belt

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    But you didnt say "experienced wrestler" in the first post I quoted. If you dont think an expert boxer has a higher chance of landing a reactive strike than the average man then you dont anything about martial arts. You've adressd Tysons power to some extent, but not once mentioned the speed, accuracy and feel for distance that comes woth being a pro boxer.
     
  3. hugemmafan22

    hugemmafan22 Banned Banned

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    He says that. Too bad nobody else does. Shamrock is a clown that couldn’t even beat up one of the nasty boys.
     
  4. the ambush

    the ambush Black Belt

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    What street fight were you referencing? Was I speaking a foreign language? There is nobody else but Ken and the two guys he was fighting in a hotel room. What Ken says happens is a point of view, what Sags and Knobbs say happen is another point of view. There are not twelve witnesses who can confirm the story so yes there is nobody else.

    Looks like we have a revisionist on our hands. Lizards change their colors, too.

    http://www.armpit-wrestling.com/nasty-boys-vs-ken-shamrock/
     
  5. hugemmafan22

    hugemmafan22 Banned Banned

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    The other wrestlers that had to pull Sags off of Ken’s lifeless corpse. Why would you expect ken to be good at fighting? His only significant wins are staged slap fights in pancrase.
     
  6. bopbopbbe

    bopbopbbe Yellow Belt

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    Tyson would knock Royces head into the 8th row. In an mma fight tyson could just hammer fist down on Royce's head with small gloves during any take down attempt and probably cause death.

    MMA only fans dont understand what true heavy handiness is. I remember and reading somewhere about how Tyson was play boxing with somebody and accidently dislocated their jaw. Any glancing blow by Tyson in small gloves would seriously be deadly.
     
  7. sdss

    sdss Brown Belt

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    You brought up Kimo and said that Royce struggled to take him down, as if that is somehow proof that he would struggle to take Mike Tyson down. I explained that it isn't, because Kimo, in addition to being a much bigger guy and also a very good athlete, also has a wrestling background. So that's he was harder for Royce to take down than Tyson would be.

    Mike Tyson might be harder for Royce to take down than an average non athlete, but that still would only give him a slim chance. His speed, footwork, and power are all based on boxing. Footwork and lateral movement is completely different once you add in takedowns. Pure boxing, even though there hasn't been a boxer of quite Mike's level in MMA, has not been shown to be effective in MMA without takedown defense.
     
  8. sdss

    sdss Brown Belt

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    Mike Tyson had a very famous street fight where he landed a bare handed clean punch to another person's face, and the guy didn't die, and Mike fucked up his hand arguably worse than he hurt the other guy.

    It would be easier to take the Tyson crowd seriously if there wasn't so much hyperbole.

    At least most of the Royce side isn't saying, "He'd choke Tyson and hold it until he was brain dead."
     
  9. ticho123

    ticho123 Black Belt

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    I added Kimo as an exemple of Royce struggling to take someone down mainly because of the size. You say Kimo was a wrestler, which it seems like he was although it still looks to me like his clinchwork against Royce was mostly based on size. But regradless that's besides the point, and boxing being ineffective in MMA without takedown defense is EXTREMELY besides the point. Picking Royce over Tyson in a MMA fight is fine, if Royce got Tyson down he would certainly dominate and the clinch is a toss up for me. However, I can't see why you refuse to accept that speed, accuracy and timing will logically increase a man's chances of landing a "lucky" shot as the grappler closes in on them. Why is that so hard? And what the hell are you babbling about with his speed being "based on boxing"? Quick hands and quick feet are exactly what we're talking about - that's speed in boxing.

    Ok, you're obviously trolling. Might? Might? lol dude
     
  10. boyer

    boyer Blue Belt

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    If you mean Mitch Green, I didnt see tysons hand after, but he did break his nose and eye socket with one punch. Thats pretty good.
     
  11. sdss

    sdss Brown Belt

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    I think it was just stitches, but Mike's hand was fractured badly enough that he had to postpone his next fight. It's a long way from instant death.
     
  12. Koondrecht

    Koondrecht White Belt

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    And if i remember correctly Mitch was in the hospital after
     
  13. sdss

    sdss Brown Belt

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    Yes, might be, and might not be. Grappling and takedown defense is not natural, and in fact is unnatural when you've got years of boxing training because much of what you learn in wrestling and grappling is counter to what you learn in boxing. The one time I ever saw Mike Tyson attempt something close to grappling, he had the balance of a three-legged table.

    And yes, "boxing being ineffective in MMA without takedown defense" is entirely the point, because we're talking about a boxer with no takedown defense in MMA. Quick hands and quick feet in boxing, doesn't necessarily translate once you add in takedowns.

    And by the way, I've never said that Mike Tyson has no chance to win, just that he's unprepared for a mixed rules fight, which is obvious and he himself also said, and that he'd be a longshot to win. I think he has a better chance against Royce than anyone in UFC 1 other than Shamrock. In fact, I give Mike a better chance to win than he apparently gives himself.
     
  14. sdss

    sdss Brown Belt

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    And so was Mike.
     
  15. Koondrecht

    Koondrecht White Belt

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    ,
    Think you're right. Mike was in the hospital and Mitch Green was looking for him again haha, crazy fucker
     
  16. sdss

    sdss Brown Belt

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    I only bring it up in regard to the "Tyson kills people dead with one shot" hyperbole and the idea that Tyson would be dumb enough to go into any kind of scheduled fight bare-fisted. Mitch Green was a bad dude and so was Tyson.

    Mitch "Blood" Green is also one of the best name/nickname combos ever. It rolls right off the tongue.
     
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  17. ticho123

    ticho123 Black Belt

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    What's most interesting to me is not if Tyson would do good in modern MMA without grappling training - because he obviously wouldn't - it's rather how he would do in the earlier UFCs, in other words "How good was Royce Gracie really?". I think even in the earlier UFC that Royce at times looked vulnerable and in hindsight you could see the weakness of Gracie BJJ's lack of takedowns. If I'd have to bet on Royce vs prime Tyson without wrestling training I'd be leaning towards Tyson, but if we're talking untrained Tyson vs a strong early wrestler like Severn, Ken or Coleman then I got the wrestler. Timing a punch on a double leg takedown isn't exactly easy, but timing a punch on someone trying to initiate a clinch is something a boxer would be used to.
     
  18. sdss

    sdss Brown Belt

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    Royce shot a low double against Jimmerson. He'd almost certain do the same against Tyson. I don't think he'd have to be in a clinch with him unless he fucked up and ended up against the cage and couldn't complete the double.

    I also think Ken, Severn, and any other early days wrestler has an easier time with Tyson than Royce does. But to me, the most interesting fight is physically-shot Ken vs. physically-shot Tyson, like, today.
     
  19. porcodio

    porcodio Purple Belt

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    Lol. This guy is comparing jimmerson/Bordeaux ability to punch and power to Mike Tyson. Seriously.
     
  20. porcodio

    porcodio Purple Belt

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    How many mike Tyson caliber boxer were in ufc 1?
     
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