Inquiry says Putin probably killed Alexander Litvinenko. Duh.

[Boxiana]

Because he's a paid Russian troll.

That's probably true lol. This is a big enough forum that we do get shills from time to time.

Meanwhile, somewhere outside Moscow...

Edit: Can I post pictures in this thread?

 

[The Merchant]

Meanwhile, somewhere outside Moscow...

Undercover for 2 years posting about Demian Maia (my favourite fighter and a great guy) and then seeing all the Zionists on here posting mince on the Israel / Palestine problem, then i decide to troll for Russia as a paid agent. I wish i could get paid for it!

 

[KnightTemplar]

Can i see the medical reports on that, what's the information that informs this view?

It's on the Wiki page, but clifs are:

December 4th 2006, Lugovoy checks into hospital.

December 9th 2006, he is released from hospital in a satisfactory condition.

May 2008, Lugovoy claims that, "I was the victim, not the perpretator, of a radiation attack".

Kovtun was hospitalised with radiation poisoning at the beginning of December 2006. He gave a statement to the media that his health was improving on December 12th.

 

[The Merchant]

It's on the Wiki page, but clifs are:

December 4th 2006, Lugovoy checks into hospital.

December 9th 2006, he is released from hospital in a satisfactory condition.

May 2008, Lugovoy claims that, "I was the victim, not the perpretator, of a radiation attack".

Kovtun was hospitalised with radiation poisoning at the beginning of December 2006. He gave a statement to the media that his health was improving on December 12th.

Well that's not conclusively proving that Lugovoy became sick without ingesting it. In fact it speaks on it not at all.

OK that's enough wasted time, i'll begin to construct my argument tomorrow with more time and will post it in a separate thread, so as not to upset anyone.

 

[The Merchant]

Probably the CIA. Can’t imagine Russian intelligence being this sloppy.

I thought the CIA shot folk with shell-fish concentrate.

 

[HomerThompson]

Both Lugovoy and Kovtun suffered radiation poisoning. Both required hospital treatment when they returned to Russia. Neither of them had ingested it.

The doctors who carried out the autopsy had to wear protective suits. A car Litvinenko drove after being poisoned was rendered unusable because the radiation levels were so high. Six months after his death, Litvinenko's family were still unable to return to their former home because it was so contaminated. Litvenenko had to be buried in a fucking lead-lined coffin. And you're saying Polonium has to be ingested to have any effect?

Your ignorance of this subject is truly staggering.

(Sorry, @HomerThompson )

 

[KnightTemplar]

Well that's not conclusively proving that Lugovoy became sick without ingesting it. In fact it speaks on it not at all.

OK that's enough wasted time, i'll begin to construct my argument tomorrow with more time and will post it in a separate thread, so as not to upset anyone.

 

[The Merchant]

I've already posted to a Forensic magazine that speaks on polonium ingestion and how it isn't always fatal etc, so pretty funny seeing the claim that it is. Also no definition on "exposure". Folk ingest polonium in tiny amounts all the time.

Also Remember who else had polonium poisoning? Yasser Arafat.

"Polonium-210 is not a radioactive substance that emits gamma particles, which can travel through walls at extremely high energies. Instead, as polonium-210 decays, it releases alpha particles, which can't even pass through a piece of paper.
But alpha particles are still dangerous. They travel short distances and retain a high amount of energy."

Polonium-210 is a problem to humans only when it gets into the body. The International Atomic Energy Agency says that careful hand-washing and showering can eliminate most traces of this substance.

https://edition.cnn.com/2012/11/27/health/polonium-arafat-explainer/index.html

Po-210 is highly radioactive and chemically toxic element. Direct damage occurs from energy absorption into tissues from alpha particles. As an alpha-emitter Po-210 represents a radiation hazard only if taken into the body.

https://web.archive.org/web/2007030...lications/Factsheets/English/polonium210.html



Right enough debunking the small claims, i'm satisfied that folk haven't read the inquiry. I'll start on the new thread and my interpretation of the inquiry.

 

[The Merchant]

"One more time for the hard of thinking: Lugovoy and Kovtun suffered radiation poisoning without ingesting Polonium. Ingestion kills, but simple exposure to Polonium will cause symptoms of RP. Beresovsky suffered no such symptoms. Therefor he could not have come into contact with Polonium."


Po-210 is highly radioactive and chemically toxic element. Direct damage occurs from energy absorption into tissues from alpha particles. As an alpha-emitter Po-210 represents a radiation hazard only if taken into the body.

https://web.archive.org/web/2007030...lications/Factsheets/English/polonium210.html

So ergo if you're being treated for radiation poisoning it was taken into the body.

 

[KnightTemplar]

I've already posted to a Forensic magazine that speaks on polonium ingestion and how it isn't always fatal etc, so pretty funny seeing the claim that it is. Also no definition on "exposure". Folk ingest polonium in tiny amounts all the time.

Also Remember who else had polonium poisoning? Yasser Arafat.

"Polonium-210 is not a radioactive substance that emits gamma particles, which can travel through walls at extremely high energies. Instead, as polonium-210 decays, it releases alpha particles, which can't even pass through a piece of paper.
But alpha particles are still dangerous. They travel short distances and retain a high amount of energy."

Polonium-210 is a problem to humans only when it gets into the body. The International Atomic Energy Agency says that careful hand-washing and showering can eliminate most traces of this substance.

https://edition.cnn.com/2012/11/27/health/polonium-arafat-explainer/index.html

Po-210 is highly radioactive and chemically toxic element. Direct damage occurs from energy absorption into tissues from alpha particles. As an alpha-emitter Po-210 represents a radiation hazard only if taken into the body.

https://web.archive.org/web/2007030...lications/Factsheets/English/polonium210.html



Right enough debunking the small claims, i'm satisfied that folk haven't read the inquiry. I'll start on the new thread and my interpretation of the inquiry.

@HomerThompson you want to take this one? I don't mind kicking Sir Troll-a-Lot's ass, but it's your Thread. And more importantly, I'm late for a birthday party

 

[KnightTemplar]

"One more time for the hard of thinking: Lugovoy and Kovtun suffered radiation poisoning without ingesting Polonium. Ingestion kills, but simple exposure to Polonium will cause symptoms of RP. Beresovsky suffered no such symptoms. Therefor he could not have come into contact with Polonium."


Po-210 is highly radioactive and chemically toxic element. Direct damage occurs from energy absorption into tissues from alpha particles. As an alpha-emitter Po-210 represents a radiation hazard only if taken into the body.

https://web.archive.org/web/2007030...lications/Factsheets/English/polonium210.html

So ergo if you're being treated for radiation poisoning it was taken into the body.

Like I said, I'm running late, so this will have to be your last ass-kicking tonight. From Wiki:

Wearing intact and chemically treated gloves is a mandatory precaution when handling Polonium to avoid transcataneous diffusion of Polonium directly through the skin.

 

[The Merchant]

@HomerThompson you want to take this one? I don't mind kicking Sir Troll-a-Lot's ass, but it's your Thread. And more importantly, I'm late for a birthday party

Aren't you going to explain how you claim "Lugovoy and Kovtun suffered radiation poisoning without ingesting Polonium."

but if you ask the relevant scientific bodies they state "As an alpha-emitter Po-210 represents a radiation hazard only if taken into the body."

What's that you need to run off? Ok then enjoy the party Is it at Little Marco's?

 

[The Merchant]

Like I said, I'm running late, so this will have to be your last ass-kicking tonight. From Wiki:

Wearing intact and chemically treated gloves is a mandatory precaution when handling Polonium to avoid transcataneous diffusion of Polonium directly through the skin.

lol what a quote mine. Here's the full quote. More intellectual dis-honesty. You're such a google scholar lol.

"Alpha particles emitted by polonium will damage organic tissue easily if polonium is ingested, inhaled, or absorbed, although they do not penetrate the epidermis and hence are not hazardous as long as the alpha particles remain outside the body. Wearing chemically resistant and intact gloves is a mandatory precaution to avoid transcutaneous diffusion of polonium directly through the skin. Polonium delivered in concentrated nitric acid can easily diffuse through inadequate gloves (e.g., latex gloves) or the acid may damage the gloves."

We go to the source which is the book Advances in Inorganic Chemistry and Radio Chemistry volume 4. We see it's talking about Polonium Dioxide. Here's the book written in 1962

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=8qePsa3V8GQC&pg=PA212&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[Boxiana]

I thought the CIA shot folk with shell-fish concentrate.

Not when they’re pretending to be Russians.

 

[Seaside]

I've already posted to a Forensic magazine that speaks on polonium ingestion and how it isn't always fatal etc, so pretty funny seeing the claim that it is. Also no definition on "exposure". Folk ingest polonium in tiny amounts all the time.

Also Remember who else had polonium poisoning? Yasser Arafat.

"Polonium-210 is not a radioactive substance that emits gamma particles, which can travel through walls at extremely high energies. Instead, as polonium-210 decays, it releases alpha particles, which can't even pass through a piece of paper.
But alpha particles are still dangerous. They travel short distances and retain a high amount of energy."

Polonium-210 is a problem to humans only when it gets into the body. The International Atomic Energy Agency says that careful hand-washing and showering can eliminate most traces of this substance.

https://edition.cnn.com/2012/11/27/health/polonium-arafat-explainer/index.html

Po-210 is highly radioactive and chemically toxic element. Direct damage occurs from energy absorption into tissues from alpha particles. As an alpha-emitter Po-210 represents a radiation hazard only if taken into the body.

https://web.archive.org/web/2007030...lications/Factsheets/English/polonium210.html



Right enough debunking the small claims, i'm satisfied that folk haven't read the inquiry. I'll start on the new thread and my interpretation of the inquiry.

wow it really does look like he exposed and killed himself. if you would poision someone which is what people say by word of mouth that not what happen to him.

I thought the CIA shot folk with shell-fish concentrate.

how about cancer weapon?

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Putin a fan of radiation poisoning it seems. Every badass world leader in history has his quirks.

 

[Prutfis]

 

[KnightTemplar]

lol what a quote mine. Here's the full quote. More intellectual dis-honesty. You're such a google scholar lol.

"Alpha particles emitted by polonium will damage organic tissue easily if polonium is ingested, inhaled, or absorbed, although they do not penetrate the epidermis and hence are not hazardous as long as the alpha particles remain outside the body. Wearing chemically resistant and intact gloves is a mandatory precaution to avoid transcutaneous diffusion of polonium directly through the skin. Polonium delivered in concentrated nitric acid can easily diffuse through inadequate gloves (e.g., latex gloves) or the acid may damage the gloves."

We go to the source which is the book Advances in Inorganic Chemistry and Radio Chemistry volume 4. We see it's talking about Polonium Dioxide. Here's the book written in 1962

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=8qePsa3V8GQC&pg=PA212&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

The same page also says the only safe way to handle Polonium is within a Glove Box, which is then sealed within another box. Lugovoy and Kovtun did not have such a box. Their handling of the Polonium was described as, "Idiotic, bordering on suicidal".

Tell you what, when you post your new thread, get a Mod to include a Poll: do you believe Litvinenko was murdered on the orders of Vlad Putin? Yes or No?

Put your money where you mouth is, kid

 

[The Merchant]

The same page also says the only safe way to handle Polonium is within a Glove Box, which is then sealed within another box. Lugovoy and Kovtun did not have such a box. Their handling of the Polonium was described as, "Idiotic, bordering on suicidal".

Tell you what, when you post your new thread, get a Mod to include a Poll: do you believe Litvinenko was murdered on the orders of Vlad Putin? Yes or No?

Put your money where you mouth is, kid

To stop oxidisation or contamination , you need to stop being a wiki scholar. Alpha radiation is stopped by the top layer of skin. You don't get radiation poisoning

What money? The truth isn't democratic. Calling folk "son and "kid" are just cheap rhetorical tricks. I'm just showing my problems with the report. Yeah the switch from them being competent to incompetent is interesting. They were so bad at handling it, it was surmised they didn't even know what it was. Interesting.

 

[The Merchant]

"Idiotic, bordering on suicidal" is a quote from the Journalist Luke Harding. It's not from the inquiry or expert testimony, it's the opinion of a journalist.