If You Caught Your Coach Talking Trash About You...

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by FightGuyOpenMind, Oct 11, 2018 at 6:18 PM.

  1. FightGuyOpenMind

    FightGuyOpenMind Green Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2018
    Messages:
    953
    Likes Received:
    679
    The relationship between a coach and his team is supposed to be one of mutual benefit, and trust.

    However, if you walked in on or overheard your coach talking down on you to another member of the gym what would you do?

    Would you try to approach him on the situation, and move forward together?

    Or

    Would you feel that the trust has been broken, and find another place to train?

    Thoughts?
     
    shincheckin likes this.
  2. Odysseus

    Odysseus Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2017
    Messages:
    242
    Likes Received:
    371
    When did this happen, and how were they “talking trash” about you? This is a very contextual question.
     
  3. FightGuyOpenMind

    FightGuyOpenMind Green Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2018
    Messages:
    953
    Likes Received:
    679
    It would be just in general. No one was talking trash about me specifically. However, I have heard coaches tell other fighters that they thought a fighter was going to get stopped in a fight. This drove the consensus of the gym that the fighter had no chance to win. He basically had to have faith in himself. He won that fight by the way.

    So to put it into context, they said something that was mocking of your abilities, the work you were putting in, or simply making remarks that weren't flattering, general trash talk lol. They said this to other fighters. What would you do?
     
    Odysseus likes this.
  4. Odysseus

    Odysseus Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2017
    Messages:
    242
    Likes Received:
    371
    Wow, that’s pretty messed up and my first question would be, why would you let me take a fight if you thought I was going to lose? As a coach, you should have your fighter’s best interest in mind and want the best for them as well as create a positive, encouraging environment. Speaking badly about one of your fighters to their own teammates looks bad on the coach and will lead to distrust and dissension in the gym.

    I would certainly confront the coach and ask why they were saying these things. If it wasn’t a misunderstanding, I would most likely leave the gym. The fight game is as much mental as it is physical- if you start to doubt the environment you’re training in, or your coach’s intentions to build you up, your performance in the ring is going to suffer.
     
    mon and FightGuyOpenMind like this.
  5. FightGuyOpenMind

    FightGuyOpenMind Green Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2018
    Messages:
    953
    Likes Received:
    679
    That incident happened a year ago. They've been paying for it ever since. The environment is toxic. He got told about it, I told him about it, and one other guy. I just wasn't going to give him names, because I don't like gossip or name dropping. However, he is my friend, so I told him to be aware.

    I was the only one that said I think he can beat the guy. The fighter he was up against had almost 100 ammy fights, and our guy had about 15-20 at the time. Since they were both open class he could fight him even with the numbers being so wide. The fighter was also feared because he drops people, especially in sparring.

    Our guy won to everyone's surprise. He hasn't trusted most anyone in the gym ever since. It shows. He's become very self centered, but for good reason. He thinks it's him vs everyone else.

    The fighter, and the coach actually did come to words and they talked about gloving up and getting in the ring. Coach didn't show up on the day it was supposed to go down. It's just all bad.

    I know this seems to be an extreme example, but it shows how things can go.

    I agree with your points. Thank you for your input.
     
  6. shincheckin

    shincheckin Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2012
    Messages:
    3,187
    Likes Received:
    2,383
    I will not name drop, but there is a gym that I used to train at when I was much younger. The coach has never fought and all his accomplishments are fabricated, he talked alot of shit about me for not fighting at the time, the rest of the students followed his lead. I looked at this guy as a father figure and my "teammates" as close friends, when in reality this was the farthest from the truth. The coach was just a big huge fake phony backstabber, as were all my "friends" from the gym.

    This same guy went and sent a guy to fight MMA, the guy got fucked up real bad, huge swollen black eyes, etc. The next time I came into the gym he was showing me a picture of the guys injuries, laughing at them, and how badly he got fucked up and what a shit job at fighting he did........well his performance is a direct reflection of your coaching, he didnt seem to make that connection.

    generally speaking, no one wants to see others do better than them...... and when someone cant do something themselves they want to tell you that you cant do it.

    so yeah I have been there done that. I went from having these "haters" hold me back from accomplishing my dreams that they themselves could not achieve......to being in the shoes that I am now.

    Thats my own little personal story. Mental strenght, confidence, self believe, are all very important aspects of fighting, something many coaches over look.

    anyways, I would say fuck them and leave is my suggestion.
     
  7. FightGuyOpenMind

    FightGuyOpenMind Green Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2018
    Messages:
    953
    Likes Received:
    679
    Great story, and sound advice. Thank you for your input.
     
    shincheckin likes this.
  8. j123

    j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2013
    Messages:
    13,237
    Likes Received:
    13,891
    Location:
    Let me bang mang
    Sad part is this happens more often than it should. Worse are your friends who have blind loyalty. At the end of the day you have to do what's best for you, and it looks like you did.
     
    shincheckin and FightGuyOpenMind like this.
  9. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    40,838
    Likes Received:
    1,864
    Location:
    Vegas
    There's a trainer like this at my Gym, you can likely figure out who he is by my past posts. But he fancies himself the smartest guy in Boxing, and has this "tough guy" spiel he gives everyone. I'm pretty 100% positive he never fought. Sidenote, last week he was ranting about how awesome the American Military is, how "we're badasses, no one can fuck with us, we don't lose Wars"...we, we, we. The punchline? This guy left Military bootcamp after one day because they wanted him to cut his hair. He spent most of his late teens and through his 20's doing psychedelic drugs and having sex.

    Any time a fighter does anything different than what he thinks he cuts them to pieces behind their backs.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018 at 10:07 PM
  10. j123

    j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2013
    Messages:
    13,237
    Likes Received:
    13,891
    Location:
    Let me bang mang
    Guy sounds like Charlie Z
     
  11. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    40,838
    Likes Received:
    1,864
    Location:
    Vegas
    When I lost my first and only Pro fight, it began circulating the Gym behind my back that I don't have a clue how to fight. A lot of people who never got in the ring as Professionals used my loss to downplay my relevance and make themselves seem smarter and better.

    A few years later my students were kicking the shit out of theirs.

    Basically, when you're real in this game...it comes to light. I lost, but I had the balls to get in there under the lights and in front of cameras and take that L like a man.

    Sidenote - The most respect I got was from my opponent and his trainer. Ironically he trained at my Gym as well. He cried and wouldn't let me go from the hug after the fight. The next week his trainer said these words, which I'll never forget:

    "Richard was very worried about you. So I'm happy he got the liver shot early because I told him if he let you in the fight, he's in trouble. The longer you're there, he cannot win. I told him, you have to get Luis quickly. Don't let him warm up. Then he hit you with the right hand and you made me panic, because I saw it woke you up. I said 'oh shit, we woke him up' and you came forward punching. He just got the good body shot on you."

    Hearing that made all the fakers' words fade away.
     
    CFGroup, mon, The ScorpioN and 4 others like this.
  12. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    40,838
    Likes Received:
    1,864
    Location:
    Vegas
    No, there's actually a method to Charlie Z's madness, believe it or not. He's crazy like a fox, appearing borderline delusional. But he's not. He's just trying to do something, run a scam that absolutely no one buys into. This other guy is running a scam that people buy into routinely, he just hasn't been able to get rich off it because over time, it becomes obvious it's a scam. Charlie is a scam right off the bat.
     
    CFGroup, shincheckin and j123 like this.
  13. shincheckin

    shincheckin Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2012
    Messages:
    3,187
    Likes Received:
    2,383
    well said man. The thing is, people make themselves look good, or build themselves up by putting others down. So this guy due to his lack of never fighting and lies about it, needed to keep the tough guy image up by putting me down, as well as many other people, and others he sent to fight that lost. I wasnt competing with anyone, but I was the "best" in the gym at the time, so my teammates were competing with me and wanting to knock me off that top position. I didnt realize they were trying to KO me when we were sparring and I was taking it a bit easy. One of my old teammates from that gym left and went on to become one of the top fighters in the world, wont say what sport as it may be too obvious. anyways he distanced himself from that gym as well. I grew up without a dad, and looked at this guy like a dad, something ppl made fun of me for and he took advantage of. Years later we reconnected to patch things up, within 2 sessions of hanging out he began to treat me like shit again so i left. His new assistant coach at the time talked to me about he was sick of his shit, left and opened his own gym. the old dickhead coach didnt want anything to do with me anymore after we reconnected until i started fighting, then wants to be my best friend.

    It wasnt until i started fighting and surrounding myself with fighters and realized most fighters are very friendly and encouraging and not putting eachother down, its a whole different world once i quit hanging around the fakes. I feel I can spot fakes quickly now, and theres alot of them. Without the internet and stuff of today you just had to take peoples word for how many fights they had in thailand or what not, there was no way to verify it. and continuing on that topic of not being able to verify fights, there was another coach at this gym at the time I was there, this coach was from another country, this coach was pretty good skill level, this coach supposedly had many fights in thailand, I never doubted him at the time (I now understand why he acted like a tough guy all the time now though), this coach eventually left the US and returned to his home country, while in the US this coach never fought, I later find on his webpage for his gym hes running that he had several pro fights in america. I knew him the entire time he was in the US, he never fought anything, I know this is a lie on his webpage, thus I can put 2 and 2 together and figure that if he tells ppl in america he has fights in thailand, and he tells people in his home country he has fights in america, they are all lies, the guys entire career, accomplishments, etc. they are all based on lies. The guy happens to be a very high skill level, a good coach, a well respected and well known individual on world level in his sport, and its all based on lies. I recently checked his website not too long ago, and all the lies about fighting in thailand and america etc. have been removed.

    I could go on and on about this these guys and this stuff but theres alot of fakes in the MT game, specifically from the previous generation because they can get away with it as now everything is online and can be verified. Back in the day you just had to take peoples words for it. People do alot of fake stuff too like go to another country on holiday, take some pictures with some fighters after a fight and try and pose as if they cornered them.
     
    CFGroup likes this.
  14. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    40,838
    Likes Received:
    1,864
    Location:
    Vegas
    Man it's just as bad in Boxing. The situation you just described is like EVERY Boxing gym. Then the worst ones are the former fighters who don't know dick about training people. I mean, the totally fake coaches are just that, fake, and like I said on a long enough timeline they lose all their fighters because it becomes obvious they don't know what the fuck they're doing. But the former fighters who don't know what they're doing, it's worse, because they GET that unearned trust from students who buy into them because of their records. That was me. My first trainer in Vegas was a former World Champion. I had a bad day in the Gym and he made fun of me the whole next day. I sparred a kid who had like 56 Amateur fights, yeah no shit I got handled. He yelled out to the entire Gym that I was "hanging meat"...like in Rocky. "Anyone need some meat to punch on? Only this one is still alive." When I had a sparring session where I redeemed myself I did it without even telling him. He came out of his office in the middle of it and tried to corner me, I told him to fuck off. That's what got my respect around Vegas, well, the first thing. But that dude was a verified head case, as in damage from his career. So it wasn't entirely his fault.

    But IMO it's much worse in MMA. Why? Because MMA is full of boxing and kickboxing rejects. As well as the grappling weekend warriors who know everything about fighting and have never been hit hard in the face. The realest people in MMA are usually the competition grapplers, or people from other Martial Arts backgrounds who got into Martial Arts because they LIKE to fight, not to avoid fighting. Almost everyone else are frauds if they're not verifiable in some way. So if your MMA Gym has a "boxing instructor" and that dude says he had blah blah Amateur fights in some State far away, it's not that difficult to verify it. Find someone who fought around that time frame, they should have heard of the guy or at least have a reasonable explanation why they didn't. I'll give an example. A guy who frequented my Gym was an older Pro named Jorge Amparo. Here's his record:

    http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/816

    On his record you'll see a guy named Rocky Torres. When I saw that I laughed my ass off, because I've seen Jorge every few months for like the last 7 years and only found that out three years ago. I went to middle school with Rocky in South Florida (which is where their fight took place), and his Dad was one of my coaches. When I told Jorge, he remembered Rocky. And I said: "Let me guess, very good movement and technical boxing, can't punch?" He laughed his ass off and said exactly that. Bing bang boom, corroboration.
     
    shincheckin likes this.
  15. shincheckin

    shincheckin Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2012
    Messages:
    3,187
    Likes Received:
    2,383
    so true man!

    and there are many more ppl that say this and that but you cant find them on boxrec lol. thank god for the internet. I can find my uncle on boxrec but not other people that say they got all these fights and this and that.

    also like you said everyone gets exposed sooner or later, and even without the internet, everyone knew or knows eachother, the fight community regardless of sport is so small, and now with the internet, its even smaller.

    I went to vegas once and trained with Gil, I know you, you know Gil, Gil knows a friend of mine thats a coach and retired pro fighter, everyone is loosely connected somehow or another.

    even more so this dickhead coach guy I am talking about, the MT community is sooooo small, if he has guy go fight, he does not go and does not corner them but has his assistants do it. I think it is because he doesnt want to get "found out" or possibly worried that I already blasted his name out there.

    this is my uncle, not a impressive record but a record none the less. A well earned 2-2 is better than a made believe 10-0 or what not

    http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/162983


    hahah man I just remembered, I have had 1 boxing fight, this guy was there who, follow me now, was my cousins ex wifes brother, the dude was full of shit and said he was 8-0 pro MMA, he was about 140 lbs, but because he was runnig his mouth as 8-0 pro MMA, he got matched up with a dude that out weighed him by like 30 lbs but only had a few fights. Dude got molly whopped real quick and got exposed for his lies, it was quite obvious he did not know how to fight at all, let alone pro mma 8-0
     
    CFGroup likes this.
  16. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    40,838
    Likes Received:
    1,864
    Location:
    Vegas
    Man we could probably stay up all night with these damn stories. lol I think one of the most visceral experiences for my fighters in realizing my clout was when we went to Mayweather's to spar a couple British guys. I hadn't been there in years, and what I didn't know going in was that Mayweather's right this second is full of everyone who was at Top Rank when I was there. A little older and a little fatter, myself included, but pretty much most of the gang. So I walk in and instant celebrity status, I got hugged by about 20 people. Chris Eubank Jr. was there, I told them how I knew him when he was 17 and I used to give him rides home. We were both training with McCallum. Sharif Bogere, we both trained with McCallum, he beat my ass in sparring. But gave me props because in his words: "you MADE me come after you." When guys like that stop what they're doing to hug you, eyebrows raise. Even Daijon experienced it because some kid trained by Kofi Jantuah came up and went: "Are you Daijon Carter? Man you're good as f*ck, I've seen videos of you on youtube!"

    Your Uncle is a G. See a lot of people don't know HOW to look at boxrec. Your uncle reminds me of my opponent's Coach, who is this dude:

    http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/46465

    One glance and people think "bum." But I asked him what was up with his record. He was a Cuban National Champion. Moved to Vegas to turn Pro. For his debut he got offered Graylin Curry. That last name should sound familiar. He's the Brother of Donald and Bruce Curry. Garcia used to spar all 3 Brothers, so he told the promoter: "Oh Graylin? I'd knock him out." Bada bing, that's exactly what happened. He said after that they felt like they could match him with ANYONE, because when he took the fight Graylin was 2-0, and he was 390-15 as an Amateur, I think. Graylin was a lot like Pepper Roach, when the Roach Brothers were Amateurs, everyone thought Pepper would be a World Champ. Graylin was supposed to be the best Curry Brother, Garcia essentially ruined that entire plan. His next opponent had two losses, but he was a MASSIVE puncher and Garcia didn't take the fight seriously. He said from there he went into a downward spiral, ended up doing time in prison...twice.

    Ironic part is that's almost EXACTLY what happened to his student who beat me. After beating me he agreed to fight a guy 6-0 with 5KO's, because he thought he was invincible. I'm kind of flattered by that, even if it turned out false.

    The last guy your Uncle fought retired undefeated and won most of his bouts by knockout. Your Uncle had the stones to get in the ring with him. That's respect.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018 at 11:41 PM
    CFGroup and shincheckin like this.
  17. Replay19

    Replay19 Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Messages:
    295
    Likes Received:
    81
    shincheckin I had no idea you went through such tough journey and story but I'm amazed and commend you for overcoming all that. What you did was your best, sounds like your coach at some point was a great person but maybe he got caught up with his own issues and he started taking those issues out on good people like you that he was close to at the time, and burned bridges.
     
    shincheckin likes this.
  18. Replay19

    Replay19 Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2015
    Messages:
    295
    Likes Received:
    81
    OP:

    The coach, if he's a good coach, would only talk shit about you if there's something wrong with you and you're being ignorant, naive, stuckup, or stubborn about your improvement. If he's talking shit out of jealousy, discrimination, fear, insecurity, then he's not a good coach. If he's a good coach, he's just merely projecting his disappointment in you possibly because he sees you could've grown better but something is a huge stumbling block to your growth. That's only IF he's a good coach though.

    I get chewed up by my coach and instructors all the time---- but each time I desensitized my ego and emotions, each time I learned quicker, better, and more efficiently, and they are proud when you just move up like that and want to grow. They're tough with me because they know I want to grow, and they want me to be able to handle it. As a result, I've become pretty damn skilled at martial arts and fighting because of their help and tough love. I'm eternally grateful. That's my story, is it similar to yours?
     
  19. Mike K.O

    Mike K.O To the death, Georges Double Yellow Card Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2018
    Messages:
    611
    Likes Received:
    1,117
    Where I come from, people like that get slaped
    <209Bitch>
     
  20. kenpeters8

    kenpeters8 Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,650
    Likes Received:
    437
    Are you talking about Vut Kamnark? Or Toddy?
     
    shincheckin likes this.

Share This Page