If volk wins he will become top 3 all time and enter the GOAT discussion

[orca]

I was going to type my anti jones arguments out but I’m tired of the negativity, and I think I said them to you before anyways

cliff notes:weight advantages, fouls, past prime wins, robberies, division strength

jones fought like the hardest competitions
only 1 dq
fought fighter aged 29-32 yrs old
u smoking something?

theres no way nog and cro cop fedors best wins
kos fitch and matt hughes gsps best wins

where better than the monsters jones fought
what u smoking bro?
seems like your in a different dimention

please explain to me the robberies
mma websites gave jon jones the edge in all those close decisions

 

[RonDante]

jones fought like the hardest competitions
only 1 dq
fought fighter aged 29-32 yrs old
u smoking something?

theres no way nog and cro cop fedors best wins
kos fitch and matt hughes gsps best wins

where better than the monsters jones fought
what u smoking bro?
seems like your in a different dimention

please explain to me the robberies
mma websites gave jon jones the edge in all those close decisions

Age doesn’t mean anything if you’re constantly losing. Shogun looked awful against a 44 year old Coleman. Then a year before he fought jones he injured his acl for the third time in as many years. His record from 29 to 32 is L to jones, W, Draw, W, L and finished, L, W, L and finished, L and finished

Rampage Jackson lost two decisions to much smaller men in Rashad and machida, then beat hamill who was cut 3 fights later, loses to jones, then loses to bader, then loses to glover, and they release him over pay disputes. But since he was early 30s, actually he was in his prime?

 

[orca]

Age doesn’t mean anything if you’re constantly losing. Shogun looked awful against a 44 year old Coleman. Then a year before he fought jones he injured his acl for the third time in as many years. His record from 29 to 32 is L to jones, W, Draw, W, L and finished, L, W, L and finished, L and finished

Rampage Jackson lost two decisions to much smaller men in Rashad and machida, then beat hamill who was cut 3 fights later, loses to jones, then loses to bader, then loses to glover, and they release him over pay disputes. But since he was early 30s, actually he was in his prime?

shogun rua was the lhw champ when jones beat him
then your saying he aint in his prime
rampage was one of the contenders
then you say hes out of his prime
what primes do u really want?

18 yrs old?

 

[orca]

Age doesn’t mean anything if you’re constantly losing. Shogun looked awful against a 44 year old Coleman. Then a year before he fought jones he injured his acl for the third time in as many years. His record from 29 to 32 is L to jones, W, Draw, W, L and finished, L, W, L and finished, L and finished

Rampage Jackson lost two decisions to much smaller men in Rashad and machida, then beat hamill who was cut 3 fights later, loses to jones, then loses to bader, then loses to glover, and they release him over pay disputes. But since he was early 30s, actually he was in his prime?

lol at calling rashad a small man
the dude is a HW before hes a lhw
ur a total noob
machida is the same size as rampage too
u noob bro?
u a flat earther too?

 

[TR1]

Well he is already higher than that cheating fraud Limp Dick Jones.

 

[pinero]

Jones is GOAT, don't care how the rest are ranked, he is number 1 and by a distance!

 

[RonDante]

shogun rua was the lhw champ when jones beat him
then your saying he aint in his prime
rampage was one of the contenders
then you say hes out of his prime
what primes do u really want?

18 yrs old?

He beat machida in the first fight becuase of the weight advantage
Then he got him in the 2nd
He then injured his acl for the 3rd time in 3 years, coming back after a year to fight jones.
He then went 3-4-1 the next 3 years, beating Forrest who retired one fight later due to injuries, Brandon vera who went 1-5 to finish out his ufc career, with shogun the 4th fight in that streak, and James te huna, who had just lost, and would lose two more and get cut. The 4 people he lost to were chael sonnen moving up, gustaffson, finished by a 43 year old Dan Henderson on a 3 fight losing streak, who would lose two in a row after, and finished by OSP.
The draw was a 41 year old Dan Henderson who won the first 3 rounds, but shogun got a 10-8 in the fifth

rampage Jackson lost two decisions to Rashad and machida, two much smaller men. He would then beat Matt hamill, who was cut 3 fights later. Then he loses to jones, then he loses to bader, then he loses to glover. Top contender huh?

 

[RonDante]

lol at calling rashad a small man
the dude is a HW before hes a lhw
ur a total noob
machida is the same size as rampage too
u noob bro?
u a flat earther too?

Rashad weighed only 203 pounds when he fought Forrest griffin for the LHW belt. Even as a Heavyweight, he said in an interview he only weighed 195 before bulking to 225 to get on the ultimate fighter, then immediately dropped to light heavyweight when he got into the ufc.

machida weighed 204 against jones, 201 against bader the fight after, and 202 against Henderson the fight after that
He even weighed in at 199 in one of his earlier ufc bouts against David heath


this is jones confirming he weighed 224 fighting Rashad, and in the bad blood promo for Cormier vs jones 1 he says he weighs 227

 

[jeff7b9]

volk doesn't have as many title defenses, but the defenses he has had, have been absolute dominant what are they even doing in the octagon with him type of victories. no come from behind defenses, no slightly doing better than the opponent wins, no controversial could have gone the other way decisions, they have all been dominant af wins/defenses.

So your argument for including Volk (6-2 in title fights) as on equal footing as guys with double digit championship fight wins are:


the defenses he has had, have been absolute dominant what are they even doing in the octagon with him type of victories no come from behind defenses, no slightly doing better than the opponent wins, no controversial could have gone the other way decisions,

Let's see...

"no come from behind defenses"

Clearly a poke at Anderson vs Chael.
Let's see how Volk stacks up.

That was Andersons 8th official title fight
Thru 8 official title fights:

Anderson 8-0, 6 stoppage wins, 2 UD
Volk 6-2 2 stoppage wins, 3 UD 1 SD

So the 11th overall out of 15 fights in the entirety of his run, 10th fight entering cage as champ, Anderson WON via finish against a guy that failed the shit out of a PED test.
Anderson went on to dominate his next 4.

Anderson Silva champ run
15 consecutive wins, 13 stoppages

Franklin 1 ko 1
Lutter* Sub 2
Marquardt KO 1
Franklin 2 KO 2
Hendo sub 2
Irvin** KO 1
Cote tko 3
Leites UD 50-46, 49-46, 48-47
Forest** KO1
Maia UD
Sonnen sub 5 <---- "come from behind"
Vitor KO1
Okami KO 2
Sonnen 2 KO 2
Bonnar** KO 1

* scheduled as title defense, Lutter missed weight

** LHW bouts. All dominant R1 KOs.
Griffen was champ during Anderson's title reign.

__________


Record thru 8 title fights:

Anderson 8-0 6 finishes
Jones 8-0 5 finishes (2ko, 3 sub, 3 UD)
MM 8-0 4 finishes (3 sub 1 ko)
Aldo 8-0 4 finishes
GSP 6-2 4 finishes (3ko 1 sub)
Volk 6-2 2 finishes

So Anderson, GSP, Jones, Aldo and MM all have more finishes than Volk at the point Volk is at. (8th title fight)

Jon has gotten his hand raised in 8 more title fights since then.
Won 15 straight 1nc

Anderson won 15 straight from his first title win. 13 finishes.

GSP had same 6-2 thru 8, but won 7 more title fights after.

MM won his first 12 title fights before very close SD loss.
* won 2 more title fights in OneFC
+ all 3 fights in the OneFC Flyweight tournament.

Aldo won his first 10 title fights.

_________________

UFC title fight record:

Jones 15-0 1nc
GSP 13-2
MM 12-2
Anderson 11-2

Aldo 11-3 (3-0 WEC 8-3 UFC)

Volk now 6-2





no slightly doing better than the opponent wins, no controversial could have gone the other way decisions,

So taking a shot at Jones here maybe GSP?

So GSP had a close fight vs Big Rigg in his 12th title fight.

Get back to me if Volk gets to a 12th title fight.

Jon had close fights

Gus 1 UD his 7th title fight
Santos his 13th title fight
Reyes his 14th title fight

Let's revisit if Volk gets anywhere near these numbers.


_______________


I don't see it.

You could MAYBE, make an argument he is closing in on Aldo for #5 all time in the UFC but Aldo won his first 10 title fights and really was pretty damm dominant throughout. Volk has already lost 2 in his first 8.

I think people really get caught up in what is happening now and seem to be willing to drastically move the bar to compensate for the major gap in achievement any current fighter has compared to the Mt Rushmore guys.

Dana for example calling Usman WW goat this weekend when he has half the title wins as GSP.

 

[Bearknuckle]

He lost so he was never that good

 

[pankrat]

lol at calling rashad a small man
the dude is a HW before hes a lhw
ur a total noob
machida is the same size as rampage too
u noob bro?
u a flat earther too?

What a loser.
Machida has weighted below 200lbs for LHW bouts, he wasnt even a big weight cutter for 185. Evans is a bit thicker but definitely a small LHW too who often weighted-in well below 205 limit

Rampage was always a big cutter for LHW and actually missed weight for 205. Not opinable.

Get another hobby. You are one of the most obvious, uneducated shertards around

 

[Killer Kadoogan]

So your argument for including Volk (6-2 in title fights) as on equal footing as guys with double digit championship fight wins are:


the defenses he has had, have been absolute dominant what are they even doing in the octagon with him type of victories no come from behind defenses, no slightly doing better than the opponent wins, no controversial could have gone the other way decisions,

Let's see...

"no come from behind defenses"

Clearly a poke at Anderson vs Chael.
Let's see how Volk stacks up.

That was Andersons 8th official title fight
Thru 8 official title fights:

Anderson 8-0, 6 stoppage wins, 2 UD
Volk 6-2 2 stoppage wins, 3 UD 1 SD

So the 11th overall out of 15 fights in the entirety of his run, 10th fight entering cage as champ, Anderson WON via finish against a guy that failed the shit out of a PED test.
Anderson went on to dominate his next 4.

Anderson Silva champ run
15 consecutive wins, 13 stoppages

Franklin 1 ko 1
Lutter* Sub 2
Marquardt KO 1
Franklin 2 KO 2
Hendo sub 2
Irvin** KO 1
Cote tko 3
Leites UD 50-46, 49-46, 48-47
Forest** KO1
Maia UD
Sonnen sub 5 <---- "come from behind"
Vitor KO1
Okami KO 2
Sonnen 2 KO 2
Bonnar** KO 1

* scheduled as title defense, Lutter missed weight

** LHW bouts. All dominant R1 KOs.
Griffen was champ during Anderson's title reign.

__________


Record thru 8 title fights:

Anderson 8-0 6 finishes
Jones 8-0 5 finishes (2ko, 3 sub, 3 UD)
MM 8-0 4 finishes (3 sub 1 ko)
Aldo 8-0 4 finishes
GSP 6-2 4 finishes (3ko 1 sub)
Volk 6-2 2 finishes

So Anderson, GSP, Jones, Aldo and MM all have more finishes than Volk at the point Volk is at. (8th title fight)

Jon has gotten his hand raised in 8 more title fights since then.
Won 15 straight 1nc

Anderson won 15 straight from his first title win. 13 finishes.

GSP had same 6-2 thru 8, but won 7 more title fights after.

MM won his first 12 title fights before very close SD loss.
* won 2 more title fights in OneFC
+ all 3 fights in the OneFC Flyweight tournament.

Aldo won his first 10 title fights.

_________________

UFC title fight record:

Jones 15-0 1nc
GSP 13-2
MM 12-2
Anderson 11-2

Aldo 11-3 (3-0 WEC 8-3 UFC)

Volk now 6-2


View attachment 1007945


no slightly doing better than the opponent wins, no controversial could have gone the other way decisions,

So taking a shot at Jones here maybe GSP?

So GSP had a close fight vs Big Rigg in his 12th title fight.

Get back to me if Volk gets to a 12th title fight.

Jon had close fights

Gus 1 UD his 7th title fight
Santos his 13th title fight
Reyes his 14th title fight

Let's revisit if Volk gets anywhere near these numbers.


_______________


I don't see it.

You could MAYBE, make an argument he is closing in on Aldo for #5 all time in the UFC but Aldo won his first 10 title fights and really was pretty damm dominant throughout. Volk has already lost 2 in his first 8.

I think people really get caught up in what is happening now and seem to be willing to drastically move the bar to compensate for the major gap in achievement any current fighter has compared to the Mt Rushmore guys.

Dana for example calling Usman WW goat this weekend when he has half the title wins as GSP.

dude i aint reading all of that. cliff notes please

 

[jeff7b9]

dude i aint reading all of that. cliff notes please

Volk is years shy of touching goat territory and already losing.

Not sure why you think that it is some amazing thing that Volk has gone 6 title wins (and 2 losses) without having the obstacles actual established GOATs overcame in their 11th, 13th or 14th title fights.

When Volk hits double digit title fights let's talk about how easy he is making it look.

That simple enough for ya?

 

[RonDante]

What a loser.
Machida has weighted below 200lbs for LHW bouts, he wasnt even a big weight cutter for 185. Evans is a bit thicker but definitely a small LHW too who often weighted-in well below 205 limit

Rampage was always a big cutter for LHW and actually missed weight for 205. Not opinable.

Get another hobby. You are one of the most obvious, uneducated shertards around

Thank you bro, a guy like that will make guesses about fighter weights but ignore the data we have, he’s the type of guy who would call khabib a weight bully even though he was never more than 4 pounds heavier than his title challengers but jones can get away with 20 plus pounds cause “he would beat them anyway”

 

[Killer Kadoogan]

Volk is years shy of touching goat territory and already losing.

Not sure why you think that it is some amazing thing that Volk has gone 6 title wins (and 2 losses) without having the obstacles actual established GOATs overcame in their 11th, 13th or 14th title fights.

When Volk hits double digit title fights let's talk about how easy he is making it look.

That simple enough for ya?

dude i aint reading all of that. cliff notes please

 

[pankrat]

Thank you bro, a guy like that will make guesses about fighter weights but ignore the data we have, he’s the type of guy who would call khabib a weight bully even though he was never more than 4 pounds heavier than his title challengers but jones can get away with 20 plus pounds cause “he would beat them anyway”

I dont think either of them is a weight bully. More so LHW Jones, but still beat Cormier, Gane, Glover or Gustaffson so is a stupid tag.

Khabib was a big LW, just like many others. It was obviously skill what set him apart.

 

[RonDante]

I dont think either of them is a weight bully. More so LHW Jones, but still beat Cormier, Gane, Glover or Gustaffson so is a stupid tag.

Khabib was a big LW, just like many others. It was obviously skill what set him apart.

I don’t think there’s any weight bullies, just weight bully situations. Khabib 176 to 172 is 2.25 percent difference. 204 to 224 is 10 percent, so the jones ones are significant and the khabib ones aren’t. But obviously jones didn’t have that over every opponent, so we don’t ignore all his wins

 

[Richard Fannin]

It's weird how no one has been able to become the consensus fifth finger of the GOAT hand...
99% of MMA fans agree that, if we forget about steroid abusers, then the top 4 GOATs are (in no particular order)
-Jon Jones
-GSP
-Fedor
-Anderson Silva

Many fighters seemed like they could become the fifth finger of the GOAT hand, especially in the lower weight classes, but everytime someone comes close they either retire waaaay to early (Khabib + arguably Henry Cejudo since he came back too late, and still arguably drew Sterling... look, had Anthony "Showtime" Pettis retired after beating Giblert Melendez, would the "RJJ KILLA" have top 5 GOAT status? ) or they get blasted into Bolivia

- Alexander "The Great" Volkanovski is the last to suffer from this fate, before losing twice to Islam (the first fight was arguably a draw, so it didn't hurt his status too much) he was a good candidate for the spot
Then b00m


Before Volk, we had Izzy's fanboys who was making crazy claims about being the official 5th GOAT
Then b00m

&


Kamaru Usman was also a good candidate, dude was getting somewhat close to GSP's record at WW, a 4 or 5 more title defenses and he would have had a case for WW GOAT
Then b00m


José Aldo had a great case, he was the leader of the prestigious Nova União , he took the belt from the seemingly invincible Mike Thomas Brown
(newer fans of the sport aren't super familiar with him, but to the WEC generation, he was a legend, beating Urijah Faber twice and being very dominant in general... The BJJ Black Belt stepped away from competing in MMA in 2013 and is now the American Top Team head coach of guys like Dustin Poirier, Bo Nickal, FW champion Alexandre Pantoja, )

Aldo then defended the belt from WEC to the UFC against a murder's row comprised of Faber himself, Kenny Florian, Chas Mendes x2,
Then B00M ROASTED


We've also had Petr Yan, Daniel Cormier, Stipe Miocic, Charles Oliveira, Max Holloway... when these guys were at their peak, they all had a dedicated fanbase who claimed they "don't care what anyone says" and that their guys "was now officially top 5 GOAT"

I'm going to take a wild guess and assume that they next one to join that list will be Borz Chimaev & Islam Makhachev?

 

[Mend2412]

It's weird how no one has been able to become the consensus fifth finger of the GOAT hand...
99% of MMA fans agree that, if we forget about steroid abusers, then the top 4 GOATs are (in no particular order)
-Jon Jones
-GSP
-Fedor
-Anderson Silva

Many fighters seemed like they could become the fifth finger of the GOAT hand, especially in the lower weight classes, but everytime someone comes close they either retire waaaay to early (Khabib + arguably Henry Cejudo since he came back too late, and still arguably drew Sterling... look, had Anthony "Showtime" Pettis retired after beating Giblert Melendez, would the "RJJ KILLA" have top 5 GOAT status? ) or they get blasted into Bolivia

- Alexander "The Great" Volkanovski is the last to suffer from this fate, before losing twice to Islam (the first fight was arguably a draw, so it didn't hurt his status too much) he was a good candidate for the spot
Then b00m


Before Volk, we had Izzy's fanboys who was making crazy claims about being the official 5th GOAT
Then b00m

&


Kamaru Usman was also a good candidate, dude was getting somewhat close to GSP's record at WW, a 4 or 5 more title defenses and he would have had a case for WW GOAT
Then b00m


José Aldo had a great case, he was the leader of the prestigious Nova União , he took the belt from the seemingly invincible Mike Thomas Brown
(newer fans of the sport aren't super familiar with him, but to the WEC generation, he was a legend, beating Urijah Faber twice and being very dominant in general... The BJJ Black Belt stepped away from competing in MMA in 2013 and is now the American Top Team head coach of guys like Dustin Poirier, Bo Nickal, FW champion Alexandre Pantoja, )

Aldo then defended the belt from WEC to the UFC against a murder's row comprised of Faber himself, Kenny Florian, Chas Mendes x2,
Then B00M ROASTED


We've also had Petr Yan, Daniel Cormier, Stipe Miocic, Charles Oliveira, Max Holloway... when these guys were at their peak, they all had a dedicated fanbase who claimed they "don't care what anyone says" and that their guys "was now officially top 5 GOAT"

I'm going to take a wild guess and assume that they next one to join that list will be Borz Chimaev & Islam Makhachev?

Only one you didn't mention, that didn't get the "BOOM" treatment. The true official Top 5 GOAT...

 

[Richard Fannin]

Only one you didn't mention, that didn't get the "BOOM" treatment. The true official Top 5 GOAT...

Hi there!
I did mention him at the start, alongside Henry Cejudo

Many fighters seemed like they could become the fifth finger of the GOAT hand, especially in the lower weight classes, but everytime someone comes close they either retire waaaay to early (Khabib + arguably Henry Cejudo since he came back too late, and still arguably drew Sterling... look, had Anthony "Showtime" Pettis retired after beating Giblert Melendez, would the "RJJ KILLA" have top 5 GOAT status? ) or they get blasted into Bolivia

For the record, before the Khabib fanbase started to bash Fedor & GSP to prop Nurmagomedov as the number 1 GOAT, I was very much on Khabib's side and cheered for him in every single one of his UFC fights
(I was ecstatic when he crushed Conor's spirit & body)

And I used to have him at my last finger of the GOAT hand... the Femto of the bunch if you will


But then I started thinking, had Max Holloway retired right after beating Ortega, wouldn't he have a better claim than Khabib? Or at least comparable?
Had Conor retired from MMA right after beating Eddie Alvarez, he would probably be considered a MMA goat today, who had the balls to go up against Floyd and not getting immediately destroyed...
Had Fabricio Werdum retired right after submitted Cain, then what? Is he the UFC HW GOAT?

It's very hard to rank fighters who retire at the height of their physical prime...

GSP is an exception, since he had defended the title so many times, and had been vocal about wanting to retire since the Carlos Condit fight... he stuck around and fought Nick Diaz & Hendricks out of a sense of obligation, and when he got the win over Johnny (I say this as the biggest GSP nuthugger on Sherdog, but I personally scored this fight a draw since I had the first round perfectly even) that was it for it.

Cejudo and GSP are 2 examples of how things can go when you come back after a long lay-off.

Khabib was right to retire if he didn't feel like fighting anymore, but it's tough to rank him accordingly. For all we know he would have pulled a Pettis afterward (which isn't a bad thing, "Showtime" had a great career even after losing the title, beating future champ and LW king candidate Charles "Do Bronx" Oliveira, and KOing Wonderboy Thompson in a badass openweight bout, plus beating the much bigger Michael "Maverick" Chiesa in a gutsy performance, etc etc etc)

Buuuut Pettis is never considered as a potential 5th MMA God Hand finger, is he?