"I sparred with Evander Holyfield, George Foreman, Lennox Lewis, David Tua and others"

[BluntTrauma21]

Courtesy of ghosttown-boxing and in particular a poster there named Evolution who sparred with some of the great hw's and was kind enough to break down their power along with other ama type questions.

Thought I'd make a thread of it.

"Hello everyone. I'm a friend of AJ's from another forum. I used to box professionally from time to time, but nowadays I still spar. I've sparred with many legends. AJ asked to me describe what it is like to be in the ring with them and gauge their punching power. I will not reveal my name for personal reasons, but under anoymousity I feel a bit safer. If you want to know my identity send me an email, but I doubt you've heard of me anyway. I only had three professional fights.

I fought Lennox Lewis and Riddick Bowe as an amateur.

Riddicks power wasnt memorable to me. It probably got better as he got older, cause he never even remotely buzzed me in either of our contests.

Lennox hit like a fucking tank. He cowed me; I won the first round, and he literally broke my spirit and took my soul with a right uppercut and straight right hand in the 2nd. I tried to stay away, and forgot to punch. He never got me quite as good again, but I will never forget those two punches. When we sparred years later, he hit very hard. Distinctly unpleasant to be hit by the man.

David Tua was unpleasant. I can't see myself getting stopped by him early, as he never really staggers me, but every shot hurt, and he'd bang. Every other guy I ever sparred would box when I got aggressive, but David would stand his ground and give. I'd get these horrible headaches after sparring with him, and Dave told me once that whenever he knew I was on the dance card, he'd drink extra water for his brain. Nice guy. Hit like a wrecking ball. David Tua hit hard enough to knock my headgear clean around my face. Dude had a pretty limited style, but that left was quick as a cobra when he was sharp, and boy did it have bite. Having sparred them both, Wladimir would school Tua and probably turn out his lights. He just lacks almost any sort of refinement to his violence. Granted, I don't really either unless I'm really, really on that day, but the best heavyweights I've sparred handled me a lot easier than David did.
Feels kinda bad critiquing the dude, though. He's a fun guy, super hospitable and friendly, hit like a truck and put me through plenty of painful paces. I only hope our careers and lives don't end up with me required to face him with 12's and no mask. I can't afford the surgery.

Evander Holyfield was a machine gun. He put me on my butt first round we ever sparred with a 7 or 8 punch volley. He just punched well; He'd move around and when he let them go, they hit, hard and fast and in large numbers. He was the weakest of the group since Bowe, but probably the most dangerous. He never found me difficult to find, and turned me into a bobble head more than once.

George Foreman was tricky. His jab was absolutely numbing-Ive never felt a jab like that, where your whole face would feel like it got novacained after he hit you with it. He'd also throw light punches primarily, almost pitty pat, till he had the opening, and then he'd wallop you. His punches had the most force; They didn't hurt any worse than Tua or Lewis, but I remember how badly they'd screw with my balance. His shots moved me. He also broke my nose with a straight right.

Wladimir Klitschko hit me by far the hardest, though. I couldn't get past the jab, and his right hands hit like thunder. They reminded me of Lewis', but they were quicker and sharper. Wladimir staggered me regularly in sparring. There are literally whole rounds I don't remember. He also knocked me out with a left hook. Not down, out. Only time in my life I've seen canvas and not been able to stand up by 10 seconds.

Any other questions about these men, don't hesitate."

This was also posted by somebody up in the plats years ago and it was a great read. Highly recommend perusing the whole thing when you get the time

Link:
http://ghosttown-boxing.2299399.n4....nox-Lewis-David-Tua-and-others-td4090601.html

Will post more stories while I read through it again.

 

[BluntTrauma21]

@Zorro. I've sparred with a few middleweights here and there, and I got it on with Buster Douglas and Bert Cooper in sparring sessions too.

@The Gr8 One: I think I have a good chin. I've only been knocked out once and that was by Wlad. I've been staggered and hurt plenty of times. I've been dropped a few times too but only KO'd once.

@Urban Legend: No sir!! David Tua's punching power is not overrated. I can attest to that. He and George Foreman have a similar feel but Big George is a much better fighter.

 

[BluntTrauma21]

"I got an email asking if I ever sparred with Mike Tyson. My run-ins with Mike were not good.

Me and Mike grew up in the same neighborhood for quite awhile before I moved to PA permanently(Not just summers).

Never was a very nice guy, but he was better in the teen form. We built a bit of a rapport(NY boxers) and had some jokes. I would even call us friendly.

I encountered him later in the aftermath of the Holyfield rematch. I asked him "How are you doing champ?" It did not go well. He and his, I guess you would call them posse, berated me for even having the balls to talk to him. I informed him of my identity, in case he didn't know. He asked me, rather sternly and with many curses, not to pretend I knew him.

He seems more calm and mellow lately, and I'm sure the days following his DQ loss weren't pleasant for him, but its about as aggressive and rude as a man has ever been to my face, and my opinions of him are, by extension, a little bit jaded."

 

[BluntTrauma21]

Zombies Ate Me wrote

I'm not surprised that Mike was an a$$hole to you, especially back then, homie. His life was chaotic but he's doing much better now. He might even apologize to you if you saw him. He has matured. I think you ran into him right at his breaking point unfortuneattly.

Tell me what it was like sparring with Buster Douglas and Bert Cooper And what is your style like in the ring?

"Buster Douglas was lazy. I used to do really well against him. I was shocked when he knocked out Mike Tyson, as was the rest of the world. He was moving good, throwing double jabs and throwing some solid combinations and big punches. I didn't know he had it in him!!! He was not the same guy I used to beat up in the gym everyday.

I met Joe Frazier when he was an older gentleman, so naturally I never sparred with him. But I could tell that he trained Smokin' Bert Cooper. Bert stayed on me and didn't give me any chance to compose myself. Unlike prime Frazier he threw right hands, too. He hit hard. He routinely knocked out his sparring partners and I was one of the few to never get knocked out by him, although he put me on the canvas twice. Of course Bert was not as good as Joe Frazier (not even close) but fighting him was a mere hint of what I imagine it would be like to fight Smokin' Joe--the constant pressure, body shots, huge power, etc.

My style? I'm about six feet, four inches. 230 pounds.

I try to cut the ring and land my right hand, working behind the jab. People have said I look like a big, slow Shannon Briggs, but unlike Shannon, I generally don't get aggressive until I have my man hurt."

 

[Woldog]

Not sure if it says anywhere what his name was but if the ages had matched up better I'd say with certainty he was Malik Scott, but Malik would be too young for it to be him lol.

 

[BluntTrauma21]

Duggerman wrote
Interesting. So you survived David Tua's left hook hundreds of times, but Bert Cooper flowed you? Did he punch as hard as Tua?

"They had similar power. If anything David had a small edge but either man could crush you with one shot. I used to spar with Bert in the late 80s. Back then my chin wasn't as strong as it is now. Sparring partners develop good beards because they get beat up all the time. Your body gets used to it.

By the time I started sparring with David he was rough around the edges, and I had grown used to taking punishment. So I could withstand his punches but man they hurt. Every last one of them."

 

[BluntTrauma21]

Not sure if it says anywhere what his name was but if the ages had matched up better I'd say with certainty he was Malik Scott, but Malik would be too young for it to be him lol.

It doesn't say his name, he makes a point to be anonymous and I get that. But Malik had a much more extensive pro career and is younger. This guy didn't have many pro fights iirc and made a living mostly as a sparring partner with these guys.

 

[BluntTrauma21]

Duggerman wrote
Out of all the men you sparred with, who was the toughest? Who would you say was the best? And who, in your opinion, is the greatest of all time?

"The toughest: Either Wladimir or Evander Holyfield. Wlad hurt me with every punch and I could never get anything going. He's the only man to knock me out. I'll never forget that left hook. Lennox had a great left hook too but chose to throw it in combinations. Wlad would crack you with it without warning.

Evander Holyfield is tough enough to beat anyone. He counters every mistake you make and always hits you off balance or with a string of effective shots at once. He recovers really quickly too. Evander was tough and full of surprises. He's one of the best fighters of all time and I felt that just from sparring with him.

The Best?: That is hard to say. I will say that Lennox Lewis deserves his praise as one of the greatest of all time. He could crack you with either hand and break your confidence. He had such long reach that we spent entire rounds where I couldn't get near enough to land a finger on him but he was comfortably plugging me with his jab from what felt like across the ring. I could rarely get close enough to land anything on Lennox and when I did he would crack me with that uppercut. He was dangerous to fight and could do it all. Brawl, slug, box, counter, everything. Lennox, Wlad and Holyfield are the best I fought but old George Foreman was a terror, too. So was Bert Cooper when he kept his head on straight.

Greatest of All time?: Muhammad Ali from the things I've heard and seen. Joe Frazier and Joe Louis were terrific fighters as well. I'd have to throw Lennox and Evander into my top ten as well. Wlad is good but I think other heavyweights would toy with him.

Prime Tyson and Prime Holyfield? I think Evander had Mike Tyson's number. I never sparred with Mike, and I might be a bit biased because he was an asshole to me but Evander knew how to deal with Mike's style. Evander used to regularly spar with men like David Tua and Gary Bell, both men who were clones of Mike Tyson. Evander also conquered Ray Mercer, another Tyson-esque heavyweight. There isn't a style around that Evander Holyfield couldn't adapt to and beat.

Wow. I would have never have thought that Wladimir Klitschko hit harder than David Tua and George Foreman

@KB50MJ. Yes, Wlad could crack. Hard. With men like George Foreman and David Tua it was more of the force of the punch than the punch itself. Their punches have a similar feel. To be fair I regularly sparred with the old versions of both but old George was tons better than old Tua: George had better ring generalship, a powerful jab and set you up with combinations or for a big knockout shot. David Tua was predictable and easy to figure out but can knock out anyone. I feel bad for critiquing David because he's such a nice man. A real teddy bear."

 

[BluntTrauma21]

@Koondrecht Here I decided to make a thread of it.

Will keep posting quotes so ppl who don't want to read through the whole thing can still get his takes.

 

[BluntTrauma21]

Interesting story/take on Frazier/Tyson, apparently this guy knew Futch. Would love to hear more stories about Eddie.

Duggerman wrote

Evolution wrote
It's funny. I used to talk to Eddie Futch about this very fantasy fight. Joe Frazier always believed he would knock out Mike Tyson.

I've quoted this from another thread. What did Eddie Futch and Joe Frazier say about a fight between Joe and Tyson?

"Eddie didn't jump on the Mike Tyson bandwagon. He told me once that Tyson beat scared men like Michael Spinks and Tyrell Biggs and had a hard time with Larry Holmes and Pinklon Thomas when they were past it. Seeing him lose to Buster Douglas and Evander Holyfield made Tyson look like a fraud. He died in 2001 but picked Lennox Lewis to knock out Mike Tyson in 2002.

He picked Joe Frazier to destroy "Iron" Mike Tyson. Joe Frazier was a born warrior who loved combat. Eddie (and many others) felt that Mike was not."

 

[BluntTrauma21]

Duggerman wrote
You said once that you sparred with Holyfield in the early 90s and in the late 90s after the Tyson rematch. You told me once that he used you to prepare for his title unification bouts with Lennox Lewis. Talk to us about those sparring sessions and your reaction to the controversial "draw" and the exciting rematch.

"Yes. I'm 6'4 and a half. Not as tall as Lennox but similar in size and range. Evander used me and a few other tall fighters who could mimic Lennox's style. Evander was very sharp when I worked with him but I had to leave camp early because my daughter was being born. When I was there Evander beat me up like he usually did but I heard from some others that in the months after I left Evander was complaining of cramps and arthritis. He was 36 years old and it seemed that his age was beginning to show. The closer to the fight, the worse it got.

He was unusually arrogant in the weeks before the fight saying he would KO Lennox in the 3rd round. That was out of character for him but he told me later that Lennox made him really mad because he called him a hypocrit for being a christian but having so many children out of wedlock. That is one of Evander's buttons right there.

I watched the fight live at the arena and Evander did not look good. Evander looked stiff and slow in the first two rounds but he plays possom a lot. I figured he gave away the first two rounds to conserve energy and murder Lennox in the third. He failed to do it and Lennox controlled the rest of the fight with ease. He accidentally stunned Evander in the 5th with a punch to the back of the head but didn't finish him fearing Evander was setting him up for a trap as he had with Michael Moorer two years prior. As I watched the fight progress it was clear that Evander was over the hill. He didn't have the speed to get to Lennox and couldn't get around Lennox's long jab and reach.

I was pissed off when the fight was a draw but Evander was promoted by Don King. Go figure. The only person on the air who came out and said the obvious was Roy Jones Jr. This was Don's second time screwing Lennox Lewis because he hired a fake referree to help Oliver McCall steal the title from Lennox in 1994.

I didn't work with Evander for the Lennox rematch but from what others told me, Evander was losing his skills. They planned to drain Lennox's strength by jabbing him in the body. I watched the fight and the strategy worked. Evander couldn't fight with Lennox all three minutes of each round so he had to dive in, attack and then escape. Evander turned it into a WAR! Having shared the ring with both, prime Evander would beat prime Lennox. Watch the rematch and see old Evander take it to prime Lennox. Lennox was huffing and puffing and hated those body attacks. He barely made it out alive! Prime Evander would have been busier and got the knockout.

When I watched it live I had Evander winning but when I finally watched tape of the fight in 2006 I changed my scoring and saw that Lennox won."

 

[Noveltymortar]

Great thread!

 

[BluntTrauma21]

" I sparred with George Foreman for years. He hit like a truck. When he laid into a punch it hurt. Sometimes he hit me so hard I went numb.

As for Frazier, I sparred with Bert Cooper when Joe was training him. Occasionally I stepped in the ring with Joe and discovered (unpleasantly) that he could still bang with that left hook. He was in his late 40s but had a unrelenting attack. I can't imagine fighting him in his prime. He was knocking me around as an old man!"

"That joker went right to business. Sometimes he would demonstrate how to throw certain combinations and I'd be the guinea pig. My job was to react different ways so Bert could always be ready for any outcome.

Shit, you throw a right hand at Joe Frazier and you're getting zapped with left hooks, first to the body and then to the head. No escaping it. And he hurt. That left had a lot of bite to it and came from all directions.

Its a damn shame Bert Cooper never lived up to his potential. The boy had no guile. He couldn't stay off those drugs. Joe had high hopes for him, but he did have moderate success training his son Marvis."

 

[BluntTrauma21]

On who hit harder between Tua and Big George.

"There was a similar feel being on the recieving end of Dave and George's punches. They're both strong--the force from the blow pushes you back. I can't really say who hit harder overall but George had the harder jab.

Remember that I sparred with both when they were past their best."

 

[BluntTrauma21]

Evolution, between Wladimir, Lennox and George who was the toughest to spar with?

"Good question. I must say that Lennox Lewis is an absolute killer. He's good, he's long, he's strong, he hits hard, and he'll get in your shit and dig through to daylight. Poised, athletic, and confident. He punched in combination, worked off an effective jab, and he was so sneaky with his uppercuts. It was just hard to keep him off you, or off balance. I'd have to say Lennox was the best. He took me places nobody else ever has, and he's the puzzle I could never solve all that well. He could be countered...And my left hook was always effective for that. But the more I looked for it, the more rights over the top came back. Hell.

George was slow. He was strong as a mule, he hit hard, amazing jab, but he had one gear. Damn near impossible to back up, but he'd follow you. That was the ticket to beating him; Get off target, move, and box.

Wlad hits so hard. Amazing jab. Great boxer. But he doesn't work on the inside, he holds, and he rarely hammers the body. More infuriating to fight then flat out difficult, and I think that is sorta the trap he springs; He could knock out anything human with that right hand, and the left hook isn't fun either. He also hangs on the back of your head with his left hand when you get low...He can straight up throw you with one hand. Maddening."

 

[BluntTrauma21]

"I got an email asking me who hit harder between Muhammad Ali and Evander Holyfield. I never fought Muhammad obviously but I sparred with George Foreman who fought both men. I remember him telling me that Holyfield and Ali had similar power but Evander threw stronger punches. I can attest to that from my sparring sessions with Evander.

Evander gets in your face with those short hooks and uppercuts while Muhammad flurried from the distance or poked at you with his jab. Distance shots don't hurt half as much as those compact blows up close.

Evander fought like a mean guy. I never sparred with Dempsey but I imagine they had similar power; small guys that know how to punch properly and deliver strong punches in large numbers."

 

[BluntTrauma21]

wizard1979 wrote
I know you never sparred Mike Tyson. But you would probably know this better than most of us since you sparred with people like George Foreman and others and have credible boxing experience.

Do you think George Foreman could have beat Mike Tyson?

I feel as if 1973 Prime George Foreman definitely could. But do you think late 80's/early 90's George could have beat him? There's debate about it all over the net. I think George could have but I don't have the experience you have to gauge this.

I also hear Tyson fans say that Tyson hit harder than Foreman, I definitely don't buy that! Even though you never sparred Mike Tyson, what you think about all this?

"Prime Tyson would have KO'd old George in my opinion. Duggerman posted a link in another thread from twitter when a fan asked George about facing Tyson and George says he glad the fight never happened and that "the boy could punch." Here is a link to the thread and twitter conversation.

http://dugger-s-ranch.2299399.n4.nabble.com/Tyson-V-Foreman-tp3876944.html

Mike was in jail when I used to work with George. We didn't talk about him much but to be honest George only called out Mike because Mike was the champion. When Michael Moorer and Evander Holyfield were the champion he called them out also. But in my honest opinion old George would be KO'd by young Tyson and I'm glad that fight never happened.

As for power, its a tough thing to gauge because people hit differently. I never sparred with George when he was young and he was a different kind of puncher when he returned to boxing. He'd throw pitty pat punches to lure you into an exchange or close enough for him to knock you dead. His jab alone would knock you across the ring when he laid into it.

Tyson was sharper, quicker, more explosive, had the proper shoulder snap and all that. Tyson, Lennox, Wladimir; these are guys that hit you and you're suddenly unconscious. You see a flash of white and then find yourself waking up on the ground or out on your feet.

But for George it was pure, unadulterated power. He never knocked me down but he's got the type of power that when he hits you, you go numb and all of a sudden the ground catches up to you. For Tyson its the snap, strength, speed and accuracy that gets you. For Foreman, its massive force. Two different kinds of power.

George hurt like hell when he was an old man so I shudder to think how hard he hit in his 20s."

 

[BluntTrauma21]

"^^Thats true. Anyone could become a puncher..... When you hit a man with the proper snap you can knock anyone out...... Jack Dempsey wasn't a strong or powerful man but he knew how to punch with the proper snap.....George was more of a muscle puncher.... His strength came from his forearm."

(This is from another poster named BAD INTENTIONS, said he knew Evolution irl and had sparred him previously. His name is Jimmy Clark. I think he has a few stories of his own here later in the thread but I'm parsing through a bit slowly. Interesting quote nonetheless, from another guy who's sparred and obv knows his boxing well).

 

[BluntTrauma21]

Here is a clip of a guy who knows some guys who sparred with Mike Tyson, Lennox Lewis and Holyfield.

Go to 3:20 in the clip:

[this is Duggerman, I think he's the proprietor of the site]
"I saw that clip before. Yeah, Mike could punch. Marvis Frazier told me that was the hardest he was ever hit, and the only time he was knocked unconscious by a blow."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------


(For nostalgia, sorry Marvis)

 

[Based and White Pilled]

Cool thread