'I match up very well with him' - Stipe on DC

stipe is not volkan so im going with him.

Not going to be dissapointed with either result.
 
I think Stipe doesn't understand how good DC cardio is. Stipe could gas in first two rounds and get fucked up by DC who will not cut any weight at all.

Very winnable fight for DC.
 
DC has to perform perfectly, Stipe can have an off round or 2 and still finish late.

Can't wait
 
bambammccoy said:
Before I go on with my rebuttal just know I'm only playing the devils advocate and see it as close to 50-50 as ever.

Big country took him down once I think but I am not certain. Either way, Stipe has shown solid offensive wrestling and has been too nonchalant with his TDD in recent years. How much of that is him fighting almost exclusively strikers and being too lax or just that his TDD isn't nearly as good as his offensive wrestling as is with most fighters.

Also you have to factor in he has had very minimal TD attempts attempted against him in his UFC career, combined with none of them being very good wrestlers let alone Olympians which makes the fact that he has been taken down several times disheartening when comparing his TDD to DCs TD ability.
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all fair enough. i just think stipe's wrestling fundamentals are rock solid and his footwork is a big part of his defense. gonna be hard for DC to initiate a ton of clinches or even get in on a single leg without eating something hot.
ArtOfDrowning said:
I think Stipe doesn't understand how good DC cardio is. Stipe could gas in first two rounds and get fucked up by DC who will not cut any weight at all.

Very winnable fight for DC.
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stipe's cardio is very good... only time hes showed signs of slowing were in fights where he was the one using a wrestling heavy attack. like i said above, i believe it'll be very hard for DC to force that kind of fight if stipe isnt willing.
 
Final Say said:
maybe its the fact that lesser wrestlers have been able to stifle daniel's wrestling and hes a better striker?
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Daniel has defeated significantly better and more accomplished grapplers at HW.
Tbh Cormier's only fought grapplers at HW. This will be the first boxer he's fought in the division, that's probably what Stipe is talking about.
 
Taric said:
Daniel has defeated significantly better and more accomplished grapplers at HW.
Tbh Cormier's only fought grapplers at HW. This will be the first boxer he's fought in the division, that's probably what Stipe is talking about.
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no, he hasnt. stipe will be the best wrestler cormier has fought at heavyweight by quite a long way.

barnett is a catch wrestler, a submission stylist... hes nowhere near the grappler stipe is.
 
Final Say said:
all fair enough. i just think stipe's wrestling fundamentals are rock solid and his footwork is a big part of his defense. gonna be hard for DC to initiate a ton of clinches or even get in on a single leg without eating something hot.

stipe's cardio is very good... only time hes showed signs of slowing were in fights where he was the one using a wrestling heavy attack. like i said above, i believe it'll be very hard for DC to force that kind of fight if stipe isnt willing.
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Why do you think that DC can't force it upon Stipe to wrestle?
 
ArtOfDrowning said:
Why do you think that DC can't force it upon Stipe to wrestle?
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i think he had a ton of trouble forcing it against lesser grapplers... mir, nelson, barnett, gus.... hell even rumble gave him what he wanted in the second fight.

i just believe stipe is on another level, has very fast feet and rock solid wrestling fundamentals. dc can maybe get a takedown, maybe a few, but i dont see it staying on the ground and i dont see it working for him over an extended period. stipe is too sharp and fundamentally sound everywhere.

i even see cormier having trouble initiating a clinch, let alone finishing a takedown.
 
Final Say said:
i think he had a ton of trouble forcing it against lesser grapplers... mir, nelson, barnett, gus.... hell even rumble gave him what he wanted in the second fight.

i just believe stipe is on another level, has very fast feet and rock solid wrestling fundamentals. dc can maybe get a takedown, maybe a few, but i dont see it staying on the ground and i dont see it working for him over an extended period. stipe is too sharp and fundamentally sound everywhere.

i even see cormier having trouble initiating a clinch, let alone finishing a takedown.
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I have to disagree. I think he did fine in the Barnett fight when it comes to wrestling. In Gus fight he fought on purpose in the stand up and trashed Gus in the clinch. Mir and Nelson fight was just a waste of time and Cormier had a big control in the striking deparment so there was no need for wrestling.

I think Stipe is not on another level. He is great but not perfect in anything. He is fast but also tends to slow down a lot. In that Francis fight he was tired in round two, luckily for him Francis was dead tired. Rest of Stipe's recent fights ended in the first round. And he slowed down in the first JDS fight which is why he lost a decision. I think Stipe needs a finish inside first two rounds or DC, who went really hard 5 rounds with Gus and Jones at insane pace will put a huge pressure on Stipe like no other HW ever did to him before and from round 3 DC will take over (if he survives first two rounds)

Very interesting fight. Very close one too. I like both guys, just hoping for a good fight.
 
Final Say said:
no, he hasnt. stipe will be the best wrestler cormier has fought at heavyweight by quite a long way.

barnett is a catch wrestler, a submission stylist... hes nowhere near the grappler stipe is.
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The only fighters Stipe has straight up out grappled, both on the ground or in the clinch, are: Francis Ngannou, Mark Hunt, Shane del Rosario, and Joey Beltran.
You'll notice that all of these fighters, except Beltran who is just bad, are strikers with minimal grappling training.

Stipe was equal in the grappling exchanges with Roy Nelson, Gabe Gonzaga, JDS, and Overeem. You'll notice that 2 people on that list are guys that Cormier threw around like children. All Stipe's other opponents the fights had zero grappling.

There is absolutely zero evidence to suggest Stipe is a higher end grappler than Roy Nelson, Gabe Gonzaga, or Josh Barnett. None at all.
More than anything Stipe Miocic is a boxer. That's what he is.
 
Taric said:
The only fighters Stipe has straight up out grappled, both on the ground or in the clinch, are: Francis Ngannou, Mark Hunt, Shane del Rosario, and Joey Beltran.
You'll notice that all of these fighters, except Beltran who is just bad, are strikers with minimal grappling training.

Stipe was equal in the grappling exchanges with Roy Nelson, Gabe Gonzaga, JDS, and Overeem. You'll notice that 2 people on that list are guys that Cormier threw around like children. All Stipe's other opponents the fights had zero grappling.

There is absolutely zero evidence to suggest Stipe is a higher end grappler than Roy Nelson, Gabe Gonzaga, or Josh Barnett. None at all.
More than anything Stipe Miocic is a boxer. That's what he is.
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nah, stipe took nelson down but was dominating him standing. no takedowns for nelson. grappling clearly went to stipe in that fight, if only by a small margin.

same for gonzaga, stipe DOMINATED that grappling in that fight. gonzaga failed on every take down except one, which stipe got up within 5 seconds of. conversely, stipe took gonzaga down like a child in the third and destroyed him with ground and pound from there with ease. to call the grappling in this fight equal is to have not seen the fight at all.

overeem also, taken down like a baby and KO'd within 30 seconds. overeem got no takedowns. again, to call this equal is to have not seen it at all.

to say theres no evidence that stipe is a better grappler than gonzaga or nelson is to directly disagree with the facts.

D1 NCAA wrestler.

oh, and who exactly on this list did cormier throw around on this list?? it certainly wasnt roy nelson... he landed a couple of strong takedowns on barnett, but that fight took place mostly on the feet.

you have a very skewed view on how things have gone, you should rewatch these fights because you have them terribly wrong.
 
Final Say said:
nah, stipe took nelson down but was dominating him standing. no takedowns for nelson. grappling clearly went to stipe in that fight, if only by a small margin.

same for gonzaga, stipe DOMINATED that grappling in that fight. gonzaga failed on every take down except one, which stipe got up within 5 seconds of. conversely, stipe took gonzaga down like a child in the third and destroyed him with ground and pound from there with ease. to call the grappling in this fight equal is to have not seen the fight at all.

overeem also, taken down like a baby and KO'd within 30 seconds. overeem got no takedowns. again, to call this equal is to have not seen it at all.

to say theres no evidence that stipe is a better grappler than gonzaga or nelson is to directly disagree with the facts.

D1 NCAA wrestler.

oh, and who exactly on this list did cormier throw around on this list?? it certainly wasnt roy nelson... he landed a couple of strong takedowns on barnett, but that fight took place mostly on the feet.

you have a very skewed view on how things have gone, you should rewatch these fights because you have them terribly wrong.
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  • Stipe was 1 for 8 on takedowns against Roy Nelson, and the fight was on the ground for maybe 10 seconds in a 15 minute fight. That is equal.
  • Miocic/Gonzaga had 1 takedown each and the fight was on the ground for a total of maybe a minute of ground fighting in a 15 minute fight. That is equal.
  • Overeem secured a pretty solid guillotine on Stipe but Miocic did a good job of getting out of it. Stipe's "takedown" of Overeem was catching Reem's foot with his hand while Overeem was attempting to run away. If you want to call that an ankle pick, sure go for it. In reality it was a weird scramble with no actual takedown. Stipe finished Reem off with about 5 punches to the face while Reem was tripped on the ground, which Stipe did while postured up. This has nothing to do with wrestling. Stipe finished Reem on the ground so I'm not going to argue if you want to disagree with me, but Overeem's guillotine attempt is equal to 5 seconds of ground and pound.
  • Cormier went 3 for 5 on takedowns against Nelson so I'm not sure what you're rambling about.
 
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Taric said:
  • Stipe was 1 for 8 on takedowns against Roy Nelson, and the fight was on the ground for maybe 10 seconds in a 15 minute fight. That is equal.
  • Miocic/Gonzaga had 1 takedown each and the fight was on the ground for a total of maybe a minute of ground fighting in a 15 minute fight. That is equal.
  • Overeem secured a pretty solid guillotine on Stipe but Miocic did a good job of getting out of it. Stipe's "takedown" of Overeem was catching Reem's foot with his hand while Overeem was attempting to run away. If you want to call that an ankle pick, sure go for it. In reality it was a weird scramble with no actual takedown. Stipe finished Reem off with about 5 punches to the face while Reem was tripped on the ground, which Stipe did while postured up. This has nothing to do with wrestling. Stipe finished Reem on the ground so I'm not going to argue if you want to disagree with me, but Overeem's guillotine attempt is equal to 5 seconds of ground and pound.
  • Cormier went 3 for 5 on takedowns against Nelson so I'm not sure what you're rambling about.
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That's still 1-0 for Stipe and he was happy to show off his slick striking. Like I said, this was the closest margin of the two, but a lot of those attempts were feints

Nah, the entire last 2 minutes and change of the gonzaga fight were on the ground and gonzaga was getting badly beaten. Conversely, gonzaga had zero time of control. Grappling in this fight went to Stipe quite clearly.

The guillotine came from a nice left hand that Overeem sat him down with. Like you said Stipe's defense was perfect... to then land an actual takedown and put overeems lights out shows a clear advantage for Stipe on the ground

That Cormier Nelson fight took place largely on the feet... same with Mir and Barnett.

We all know cormier is a top of the line wrestler, but he's had little to no success against lesser fighters and grapplers. Stipe's quick feet, athleticism and wresting fundamentals means cormier is going to have real trouble implementing a grappling heavy game plan.
 
Final Say said:
We all know cormier is a top of the line wrestler, but he's had little to no success against lesser fighters and grapplers.
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<36>
Daniel is 20-1 inside MMA mang.

Cormier's loss came from Jon Jones. Stipe's losses came from Stefan Struve and JDS.
This isn't the direction you want to be going.
 
Meh.
DC has nothing to lose. Lost this fight, he'll still be champ.
Miocic has everything to lose.

This will play a part as well.

but Miocic would have the advantage even if DC would stay at HW.
Size-wise and style-wise.

Not saying it is a foregone conclusion, after all DC in unbeaten at HW... but if he had problems with Jon... Miocic is a bigger version of Jon... where Jon is more naturally gifted, Miocic makes up in size.... and Miocic has better boxing to go with it.
 
One thing for sure, DC will eat Stipe’s leather, a lot. And he won’t be able to perform panic takedowns. He can’t even do that when he’s in good condition against tall guys like Jones and Gus.

One thing Stipe has over those guys is close range KO power, those short punches are lethal. When DC fails a TD attempt and is a few inches from Stipe, hes in big trouble
 
What's your logic for him losing? Lol that stipe is bigger? Smh I'll be cashing out and bumping your thread when I win

cshireman4 said:
Please, give some more irrelevant data. Yes, he manhandled 43 year old former MW Dan Henderson. Basically a carbon copy of Stipe. Since we are connecting dots that don't exist, did you see Stipe flatline JDS? Did you see JDS drop Cain with one punch? Did you hear DC say that he could never beat Cain? Nothing in DCs past indicates that he has what it takes to beat Stipe. That isn't to say that it's impossible, just (highly) improbable.
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Final Say said:
lol..... make peace with any money youll be betting on him with this logic.
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DC has fought bigger and better guys. If the betting odds get any better I'm gonna throw money on him.
 
DC will KO Stipe standing. Love Stipe, hope he wins but I don’t see it. DC will require an output never demanded of Stipe before. DC will light Stipe up, with large thanks to the TD threat. Stipe knows DC can rag doll big HWs. Stipe is not fast enough to hurt DC unless he rips his body apart.
 
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