I didn't really like Rory MacDonald...

[Pedro of Boise***]

Hurry guys! I complemented Condit so scurry along and try to post a gif of where he fucked up!

 

[Discipulus]

I can't think of any way to discredit Condit. He is, after all, renowned for his high-level evasive movement. Only a fighter with otherworldly defense like Carlos Condit could outmaneuver Nick Diaz.

 

[Jukai]

I can't think of any way to discredit Condit. He is, after all, renowned for his high-level evasive movement. Only a fighter with otherworldly defense like Carlos Condit could outmaneuver Nick Diaz.

Floyd Mayweather. Sugar Ray Leonard. Archie Moore. Carlos Condit.

Evasive greats.

 

[a guy]

Name these holes of which you speak.

And being consistent is an attribute of being polished, Lawler is not consistent with or completely disregards the fundamentals. He doesnt even breathe right, which is a lot of the reason that he gases, which results in his sloppiness.

You said being on your toes is a fundamental, and being flat footed is wrong. You then said Nick Diaz is not wrong for being flat footed, and as others have pointed out neither is Joe Louis. Being Flat footed can be used by pressure fighters, or by fighters who want to make their opponents feel the need to move. That applies to Lawler, hence why he kicks ass in the pocket and is not a good guy to back up against.

You said head movement is a fundamental. Robby Lawler has demonstrated good head movement, the ability to slip and counter immediately. Discipulus provided gifs of this in action.

You said the hands have to be up. Not only is this proven false at every MMA event, there are legitimate advantages to not having them up or to dropping them at the right times. You have even agreed that this is the case when Edgar was slipping or when Diaz was attacking a covered up Daley.

Basically, the only thing you listed that can ACTUALLY be considered a fundamental is head movement--and Lawler absolutely has that. Your other fundamentals only apply to some fighters at some times. That's not how fundamentals work man, they either always apply or they aren't fundamentals. Things like distance, timing, and balance are fundamentals. And you better fucking believe Lawler understands those things.

 

[a guy]

His feet are equally spaced apart and condit is slippery. You are blatantly disgregarding the caliber of fighter that Condit is, a fighter who is actually traditionally textbook.

Look at Condits form and poise, every gif you post benefits me. Your arguments have shifted from combating my initial stance to attempting to discredit great fighters.

Condit is textbook?! He's a good striker by all means, but textbook is the last word to describe him. I mean, look at his hand position when he rolls under that left hand!! Seriously though, he's wild and unorthodox and awkward. Not bad, but not textbook.

 

[Discipulus]

Condit is textbook?! He's a good striker by all means, but textbook is the last word to describe him. I mean, look at his hand position when he rolls under that left hand!! Seriously though, he's wild and unorthodox and awkward. Not bad, but not textbook.

Mike Winkeljohn's fighters are known for doing everything by the book. Very orthodox, those guys.

 

[Pedro of Boise***]

Condit is textbook?! He's a good striker by all means, but textbook is the last word to describe him. I mean, look at his hand position when he rolls under that left hand!! Seriously though, he's wild and unorthodox and awkward. Not bad, but not textbook.

Well, you're right. Perhaps I should have used a different word. I'll go with smart. Doesnt really leave himself open by accident or a great length of time. But basic punching/defending mechanics, he's definitely sound.

I remember the first time I watched him fight, I thought he was going to get mauled. He made me eat my words tho.

 

[Pedro of Boise***]

You said being on your toes is a fundamental, and being flat footed is wrong. You then said Nick Diaz is not wrong for being flat footed, and as others have pointed out neither is Joe Louis. Being Flat footed can be used by pressure fighters, or by fighters who want to make their opponents feel the need to move. That applies to Lawler, hence why he kicks ass in the pocket and is not a good guy to back up against.

You said head movement is a fundamental. Robby Lawler has demonstrated good head movement, the ability to slip and counter immediately. Discipulus provided gifs of this in action.

You said the hands have to be up. Not only is this proven false at every MMA event, there are legitimate advantages to not having them up or to dropping them at the right times. You have even agreed that this is the case when Edgar was slipping or when Diaz was attacking a covered up Daley.

Basically, the only thing you listed that can ACTUALLY be considered a fundamental is head movement--and Lawler absolutely has that. Your other fundamentals only apply to some fighters at some times. That's not how fundamentals work man, they either always apply or they aren't fundamentals. Things like distance, timing, and balance are fundamentals. And you better fucking believe Lawler understands those things.

I would like to hear of one trainer who has ever said to keep your hands low. You always protect the head. Always. Robbie has shown decent head movement, but he is not consistent. It's also predictable, which actually is counter productive. Its good enough to get him through the bulk of the division, but you saw what happened when he got pummeled by a fighter with legitimate hands (Diaz).

Also, you are generalizing footwork to be soley pivoting, which it is clearly not. Nick does fight flat footed at times, but as I said before, he is usually stalking and exploiting his reach advantage. Is it a good idea? Well, I suppose it is as long as it works. He has smashed some great and effective strikers (Penn/Daley). He might regret it one day if he fights again, I remember his fight with KJ didnt go so well. I havent seen that fight in ages, I'll have to watch it again this weekend. Quirks like that are not unique to him though, even mayweather forgets when he is being pressed by certain fighters, but he has calmed down eventually and got back to his fight thus far.


The difference between Diaz's quirks and Robbies is that Robbies are glaring, and you can say for a fact that he has lost fights because of them (with striking in mind).

 

[Vil7]

I disagree with Nick Diaz having good footwork. He plods forward and doesn't have good lateral movement. He relies on having his opponents stand in front of him and trade or taunting them into doing so. He doesn't really move in to attack or away to attack well either. I think Chael Sonnen and Matt Brown both have better footwork than him. Chael does a good job of circling away from opponents power hands and Matt Brown is better at cutting off the ring than Nick Diaz is.

 

[Ayin]

I suspect we are feeding to troll here, but let's play along...

After having read through this entire thread, it's either that, or even worse, he's not. Either way, no point in trying to continue this 'discussion', which is unfortunate, because this WAS a pretty good topic.

 

[a guy]

First, you ignored the vast majority of my post. You're picking out little things to argue with and it's difficult to continue the discussion if you're gonna keep ignoring the points that you can't dispute.

I would like to hear of one trainer who has ever said to keep your hands low. You always protect the head. Always. Robbie has shown decent head movement, but he is not consistent. It's also predictable, which actually is counter productive. Its good enough to get him through the bulk of the division, but you saw what happened when he got pummeled by a fighter with legitimate hands (Diaz).

I don't need to give you one, and I'm not saying to keep the hands low. I'm saying there are some advantages to it, especially while punching or slipping. That's why, you know, almost every fighter alive will do it. It's for power, speed, vision, hiding your punches, defending take downs and being more efficient.
If his head movement is predictable, why has no one been hitting him in the head? He reacts well and is always right there to return bombs when he makes you miss. Also, consider that the Diaz fight was over 10 years and 20 fights ago. An entire decade and more fucking fights than Rory has on his record have passed, your example is outdated and thus irrelevant. Lawler is a different fighter.

Also, you are generalizing footwork to be soley pivoting, which it is clearly not. Nick does fight flat footed at times, but as I said before, he is usually stalking and exploiting his reach advantage. Is it a good idea? Well, I suppose it is as long as it works. He has smashed some great and effective strikers (Penn/Daley). He might regret it one day if he fights again, I remember his fight with KJ didnt go so well. I havent seen that fight in ages, I'll have to watch it again this weekend. Quirks like that are not unique to him though, even mayweather forgets when he is being pressed by certain fighters, but he has calmed down eventually and got back to his fight thus far.

No I'm not generalizing footwork to be soley pivoting. I didn't say a goddamn thing about pivoting in my post. Please reread what I said.

I told you why being flat footed is not wrong. It is advantageous to certain fighters.

I told you that Lawler has good head movement, and the proof of that exists in his fights when he stands in the pocket and doesn't get hit clean while landing his own counters.

I told you that the hands don't NEED to be up. You yourself have conceded this several times when I turned your own requirement against the fighters you claimed are polished. It is demonstrated by every top 3 fighter in every division in the sport.

I explained to you why the things you're calling fundamentals aren't, and why Lawler actually does have good fundamentals hence the 19 kos on his record and 1 ko loss TEN YEARS AGO.

The difference between Diaz's quirks and Robbies is that Robbies are glaring, and you can say for a fact that he has lost fights because of them (with striking in mind).

Diaz lost to both Condit and GSP because of them. He loses fights because of his flaws too. The difference is those were his last two fights, not fights that happened in a previous decade.

 

[PivotPunch]

I would like to hear of one trainer who has ever said to keep your hands low. You always protect the head. Always. Robbie has shown decent head movement, but he is not consistent. It's also predictable, which actually is counter productive. Its good enough to get him through the bulk of the division, but you saw what happened when he got pummeled by a fighter with legitimate hands (Diaz).

Also, you are generalizing footwork to be soley pivoting, which it is clearly not. Nick does fight flat footed at times, but as I said before, he is usually stalking and exploiting his reach advantage. Is it a good idea? Well, I suppose it is as long as it works. He has smashed some great and effective strikers (Penn/Daley). He might regret it one day if he fights again, I remember his fight with KJ didnt go so well. I havent seen that fight in ages, I'll have to watch it again this weekend. Quirks like that are not unique to him though, even mayweather forgets when he is being pressed by certain fighters, but he has calmed down eventually and got back to his fight thus far.


The difference between Diaz's quirks and Robbies is that Robbies are glaring, and you can say for a fact that he has lost fights because of them (with striking in mind).

Diaz' footwork is really not his favourite striking aspect. He has slow feet and he can't cut off the ring for shit he smashed Daley because Daley went at him and it was a pretty competitive fight and Diaz got dropped and he smashed Penn which was also a very competitive fight for the first 2 rounds because Penn stood infront if him. he can still catch a lot of guys who won't stand infront ofg him but he isn't very good at it.
Lawlor has improved since the Diaz fight and I'd bet on it being a tough fight for Diaz today.
Lawlor has less obvious holes in his game than Diaz.
And about the thing that no trainer teaches you to keep your hands down. ALmost every trainer won't tell you to but Ingle would do it so you can't say no trainer at all.
What Lawlor has what Diaz doesn't is better headmovement of which Diaz has none, better footwork and better kicks (ok not boxing but striking).
You say as long as it works it's ok so why do you critize keeping your hands down or critize Lawlor in general? Striking was never Lawlor's issue with the exception of the Diaz fight and guess what Diaz had trouble with Condit yes it was a competitive fight but how can you say that Diaz' footwork isn't an issue after having watched that fight?

 

[Jukai]

First, you ignored the vast majority of my post. You're picking out little things to argue with and it's difficult to continue the discussion if you're gonna keep ignoring the points that you can't dispute.

Let's recap what I am still waiting on:
-Pedro claims you slip by throwing out your shoulder. When I gave him a video and asked him to point out when Joe Walcott did it, he did not answer
-Pedro claims that Sugar Ray beat Duran so bad, that Duran quit the sport... forever. When reminded that Duran fought 30 more times, Pedro responded with the fact that Duran said in numerous interviews that he decided to retire after that fight. When pressed for a link or citation of the interview, he did not answer.
-Pedro claims Diaz has polished movement and footwork. He claims he will get back to me with an explanation on that. So far, we know that "his feet are equally spaced" (???).

I'm also still waiting on the quotes of where I said Lawler was at the level of Archie Moore and that Floyd Mayweather wasn't known for his defense.

What I'm saying is, that I asked first and you should wait your turn.

 

[szJack]

Last fucking 20 pages of this thread is trollfest.

This is just sad.

 

[Nuclearlandmine]

Entertaining thread while it is last though, lol.
This thread basically should be title "how to not argue like a 'tard on the internet". And I LMAO'd with this page. Geez, how far can you move your goalpost to continue hanging on Diaz's nuts, i wonder. Might as well posting gifs of Diaz getting jabbed to shit by GSP. You'd thought somebody with equally spacing and highly polished footworks would be able to evade such basic attacks. AS a bonus, there's him blocking a superman punch by his face too. Such high level defense. Look at how high Diaz's hands are! He can block punches for days i'm sure. And that tard GSP is such a pussy, look at how low his hands it. He must eat punches for meals.

 

[szJack]

This is beautiful gif He sees it coming, brings hands closer together.
I'm gonna show it to everyone who says just 'keep hands up' or 'shell up, you'll be ok'!

 

[flanellograf]

This is beautiful gif He sees it coming, brings hands closer together.
I'm gonna show it to everyone who says just 'keep hands up' or 'shell up, you'll be ok'!

It's almost like he thought he was wearing boxing gloves.

 

[skombolis]

Dang, wish I had seen this first. Had a lot of things I was just thinking myself

 

[Jukai]

This is beautiful gif He sees it coming, brings hands closer together.
I'm gonna show it to everyone who says just 'keep hands up' or 'shell up, you'll be ok'!

Hahaha, that really is a thing of beauty. The best thing about that gif is that GSP brings his hand down so that he can jab upwards, the exact thing that Pedro told us was wrong. "Look at Diaz's perfectly spaced feet, though!"

I kept checking my phone last night, waiting for that Diaz breakdown. It never came. I guess all those Dungeons and Dragons threads Pedro posts in were just too tempting.

 

[Discipulus]

Wait, there are D&D threads? Pedro, man... hook me up.