How would Bas Rutten do in MMA today?

[gono btw]

Nick Diaz?

But Royce would have among the worst BJJ/ grappling in the division today.. Anyone FW on up wins UFC 1,2,3

Nick was Koed by Jeremy Jackson... Kimo´s bomb would have burried him.

legit lol @ FWs,LWs,WWs... winning UFC 1,2,3.

Why do you think them Gracies didnt throw Royler (reputed more technical) out there?

 

[Tuf_guy]

How would he have done against the modern HW and LHW divisions of today?

He would definitely have to work on his TDD, but Bas was a bad dude. One of the best strikers in the sports history.

Wouldn't have been champ, because of the wrestling and aggression of DC. Although his tdd would be better, who's the last LHW champ who wasn't dominant in wrestling?

That said, most fighters would play right into his hand, because he would fuck them up on the feet. How he'd do against Rumble is most intriguing to me. I wonder about Gustaffson, too. Actually 205 Anderson at his best is one I couldn't call.

Most fighters stay on the feet to kickbox, even if they're supposed to be grapplers. Bas was a savage on the feet.

And Jones or Chuck would be in real trouble with the eyepokes, because Bas believes in two eyes for an eye.

 

[jabelar]

Bas has/had a very good fight IQ. When the sport was just developing he was already really thinking about it, picking what was effective and suitable for him. He also had a very strange body proportion, he is somehow both thick but also sort of stretched out too -- power and reach. He had the mental fortitude and passion for it. I think with modern training he'd be a top guy.

 

[Vintersorg]

The athlete pool has expanded though. "Born to do this shit's" #1 guy in 1993 was 6'1 170 lb Royce Gracie. That guy would be a 155 or 145 lber and mediocre at those classes nowadays. "Born to this shit" 2000 may be like the worst "born to do this shit" guy in 2018.

Absolutely incorrect. Royce was beating up guys who had zero knowledge of the game and he actually got exposed as well. I can't discuss this with a moron, sorry. Once you make a leap from sub-subhuman to at least subhuman, we can talk again. All those things I've mentioned are universal and don't change. Bas literally had 0 official training in submissions yet on his own he became quite good at grappling, it doesn't take a fucking genius to figure out that with his work ethic, talent, dedication and thirst for knowledge he'd advance fast with good teachers and sparring partners.

I guess Tesla is a fucking idiot compared to your average today's scientist working in his field just because the average guy of today can draw upon the knowledge of all the people from the past, right? Again, talent/affinity/intelligence/athletic ability/dedication-obsession/strong will/etc. are universal. A person possessing all those will excel in any era. You can't teleport people from different eras, you'd have to assume that for the sake of the argument they were actually in their prime in this era and were able to train today with all the knowledge of the sport we have today.

Well anyway, wasted enough words on a sherbro, bye.

 

[olimpicus]

Can i bring Crocop back too?

 

[jabelar]

Exactly, I've never understood these threads.

If modern training, diet, etc, were being used, wouldn't almost every formerly successful fighter do well today?

I think the difference is guys who were good at adapting and guys who weren't. I think a guy like Bas was always learning and really thinking about what was most effective, so I think he would benefit from modern training. There are other guys who are were one dimensional and that one dimension could carry them "in the old days" but wouldn't be enough anymore.

The second aspect is in athleticism. Some old school MMA was just a freak show with HW usually meaning overweight. So there is the question about whether they had the physique and mental attitude for modern conditioning science. But Bas was in top shape and dedicated to being in shape.

So I think the question is legit -- not everyone would benefit as much by being "transported" into modern era.

 

[Yojimbonufc]

Is this assuming he is a healthy young version with old training or healthy young version with modern training?

I always assume modern diet and training in the kind of threads to level the playing field. He'd be up there at 205 but wouldn't be a HW.

 

[DragonBreath]

He would probably get taken down like crazy, if you watch the Randleman fight he was nervous like he saw a ghost before the fight started, how the hell did he win a fight off his back getting wrestled and roughed up?

After that fight Bas retired, if he continued guys like Randy Couture, Vitor, Tito Ortiz, Don Frye would have probably did some damage on him.

Prime Wandy would have mauled him, he retired at the right time.

Bas didn't like to cut weight and he fought at his walk around weight of 210 pounds, so he was already undersized, if he fought today he would have to fight at 185 but he didn't cut weight so who knows.

I think Bas would beat any of those guys even today, if his back was feeling good that day. And Vitor's only 41.

His training videos are really good, too. He'd be a world class trainer if he wanted to work all day.

 

[The Bard]

Some old school MMA was just a freak show with HW usually meaning overweight.

That is literally the exact opposite of the truth. Old school heavyweights were guys like Maurice Smith, Kevin Randleman, Mark Coleman, Fedor, Frye, and other lean, small, and/or highly conditioned beasts, many of whom could fight at light heavyweight today. Current heavyweights that are actually good are often bloated versions of previous generations' light heavyweights, more or less. Did you see Cormier win the championship or not? The dude is roughly 5'9" on any working scale and with a decent diet can make an easy cut to 205. I am pretty sure he said he could make 185 if not for previous kidney damage caused by weight cutting. Stipe weighed in at a lighter weight than him, and walks around at the same weight as guys like Jon Jones and Alexander Gustafsson. Cain was dominant at the same size.

The best HWs in the world have always been basically LHWs who don't cut. High 220's to 240's on the scale.

 

[cheesus]

Weights weren't the same back then. A 2000's 215 lb guy is equivalent to a 2018's 250 lb guy in terms of strenght, with the explosiveness and speed of a 2018's 155 lber. The sport's evolved technique-wise and in frame size, but it has massively devolved athletic performance wise. (Thanks, USADA). 215 lb Bas Rutten easily competes with, and probably outcompetes, 247 lb Daniel Cormier, physically at least.

Jon Jones on 2000's nutrition plans is just fucking Fedor skill leveled Bob Sapp wrecking shop. It's a shame we don't get to see that.

Bas didn't fight in the 2000's ? He retired in the late 90's. He never fought many high caliber wrestlers either, mainly a lot of shootbox/freestyle or grapplers. If Randleman could control Bas, DC probably would of finished him.

 

[Blayt7hh]

2 different answers depending on what you mean.
Him in his prime in like 1998 obviously didn’t have the skills to be in the ufc today. If you’re asking how would he do it he was born 20 years later and was just now reaching his prime with all modern training, who knows. At the end of the day he was a pioneer that was better than his peers. A true badass and a joy to listen to

 

[TidWell]

I think Bas would beat any of those guys even today, if his back was feeling good that day. And Vitor's only 41.

His training videos are really good, too. He'd be a world class trainer if he wanted to work all day.

Bas is cool, but he blames his fighters when they lose he says things like if he only listens to me, dude has a huge ego, bas is the same guy who laughed when a boxing trainer tried to show him the correct way to throw a jab or left hook, bas said boxing and the jab is laughable in mma, he said using a jab in mma is stupid, now boxing and the jab is the main striking advantage in mma and used alot.

 

[DragonBreath]

Bas is cool, but he blames his fighters when they lose he says things like if he only listens to me, dude has a huge ego, bas is the same guy who laughed when a boxing trainer tried to show him the correct way to throw a jab or left hook, bas said boxing and the jab is laughable in mma, he said using a jab in mma is stupid, now boxing and the jab is the main striking advantage in mma and used alot.

Well, the problem is that there are two meanings of "jab" being used; one means the technique for a light punch with the front hand as used in boxing, and the other is any punch with the front hand, including "stiff jabs." In boxing, a "stiff jab" is not a "jab," they're different punches. The boxing jab is only used in MMA by counter-punchers who are checking range. The jab currently used in MMA is the "stiff jab" of boxing, and is not the punch a boxing guy is teaching as correct technique.

In bare-knockle boxing, the boxing jab is an important punch because the way it is thrown it is less likely to break your hand. It is the main punch you throw for that reason.
In boxing with modern gloves, the gloves change the way force is transferred and the jab is effective; it is more important to snap the head back than to hit hard, because you're hitting with padded gloves. That isn't the case in MMA, the gloves allow most of the force to be transferred normally. Also the way amateur boxing is scored, it is a better-scoring technique than power punches. So to be a pro boxer, most people have to have success at amateur level where they have to win most fights on points.

Few MMA fighters can even get away with a boxing stance! How can they throw boxing punches if they're not using boxing footwork? They can't. That's why most fighters do not fight using the striking techniques from their base martial art; they can't use their best techniques as bread-and-butter, they have to wait for exactly the right time when they can get away with throwing an axe kick or whatever. Not even Machida could get away with fighting from a karate stance forever. MMA has realities of spacing and possible techniques that make none of the narrower arts well-suited as traditionally taught; everything has to be modified to be applicable.

 

[Iron Wolf]

Would do well at MW I'd say.

He's not a terribly big guy by todays standards so wouldn't be HW, although a pretty good athlete aswell striker. I mostly watched his Pancrase KO's, so I don't know how good he is in the Submission Wrestling category.

I do know that his grappling game was pretty bad when first started in Pancrase... although to be fair, he was doing, basically a derivative of MMA back in the NHB days...

I think if you took a very young Bas Rutten and dropped him in a top shelf MMA club... let’s say AKA, for a few years, he’d eventually be the Light Heavyweight champion.

 

[POWER2]

How would he have done against the modern HW and LHW divisions of today?

He would definitely have to work on his TDD, but Bas was a bad dude. One of the best strikers in the sports history.

Bas lost to Ken and Frank Shamrock.

He'd be a fucking VICTIM if he had tried to fight in the UFC after 2000.

 

[Asahi]

Champ at some point for sure. Hec, even today he would easy maul a few in the top 15

 

[TidWell]

Bas lost to Ken and Frank Shamrock.

He'd be a fucking VICTIM if he had tried to fight in the UFC after 2000.

He lost to Frank Shamrock in Frank Shamrocks Fighting Debut right? dam lol

 

[POWER2]

Bas' most impressive accomplishment is his self defense DVDs.

 

[Crimson Glory]

I think if you took a very young Bas Rutten and dropped him in a top shelf MMA club... let’s say AKA, for a few years, he’d eventually be the Light Heavyweight champion.

That's kind of what I'm saying.

The guy in his prime was a good athlete, powerful. A dangerous striker.

If he had only his skills from the 90's, he wouldn't have faired all that well, ofcourse.

If Bas had been in his 20's and training since 2010, I'd say he'd be top shelf.

LHW though, I think he'd be a bit too undersized. Remember, DC, Jon Jones, Gus, Tex, OSP etc, all of these guys are huge, they've changed the landscape of the division. They're basically 10 or 15 lbs away from being legit HW's.

Bas is more the size of Weidman, Lyoto, Silva, Whittaker etc.

 

[Crimson Glory]

Nick was Koed by Jeremy Jackson... Kimo´s bomb would have burried him.

legit lol @ FWs,LWs,WWs... winning UFC 1,2,3.

Why do you think them Gracies didnt throw Royler (reputed more technical) out there?

View attachment 409575

LW's and WW"s of today are bigger than Royce was back during UFC 1.

Royce was 180 lbs soaking wet.

Alot of LW's now cut from 185 190 and are in fantastic shape.