How to make schools safer?

[JerichoMelenko]

How many teachers turn a blind eye when they see bullying? Teachers know who the kids are but don’t want to intervene.

 

[m25105]

I don't know. How does the rest of the world manage?

With magic beans.

 

[GSP_37]

How many teachers turn a blind eye when they see bullying? Teachers know who the kids are but don’t want to intervene.

They want the big paychecks, but don't want to be the mean uncool teacher and don't want to deal with angry parents thinking their precious darling is an angel.

 

[Byron Carter]

hio Byron Carter,

i'm thinking about it. for a minute.

ok, times up.

you are mistaken. magazine size saves time, and time is of the essence.

there's only so many minutes one has to slaughter children (they're fast), and every minute counts.

- IGIT

Then I don't think you understand what a magazine is, or how it works.

If someone is shooting unarmed people, it doesn't matter if they need to reload.

Shoot 9 rounds, drop mag, reload. It takes longer to type this sentence than it does to actually drop the mag and load a new one.

Now, if a teacher is shooting back - then it might benefit that teacher if the shooter has a lower magazine capacity.

 

[IGIT]

Then I don't think you understand what a magazine is, or how it works.

If someone is shooting unarmed people, it doesn't matter if they need to reload.

Shoot 9 rounds, drop mag, reload. It takes longer to type this sentence than it does to actually drop the mag and load a new one.

Now, if a teacher is shooting back - then it might benefit that teacher if the shooter has a lower magazine capacity.

hio Byron,

but in the time it took you to type that sentence, couldn't i have instead killed 2 or 3 more folks instead of wasting time reloading?

- IGIT

 

[HockeyBjj]

Reports saying an armed student resource officer took out a school shooter. Sadly not until either one or two (conflicting reports) kids were killed, but that fucking hero saved dozens it seems

http://fox4kc.com/2018/03/20/shooting-reported-at-high-school-in-baltimore/

 

[IGIT]

Reports saying an armed student resource officer took out a school shooter. Sadly not until either one or two (conflicting reports) kids were killed, but that fucking hero saved dozens it seems

http://fox4kc.com/2018/03/20/shooting-reported-at-high-school-in-baltimore/

hello HockeyBjj,

definitely a good day for the "good-guy-with-a-gun" proponents. this is definitely one of the outcomes to having armed folks in schools.

all in all, a terrific day (considering the slaughter that could have taken place).

- IGIT

 

[Neph]

I don't know. How does the rest of the world manage?

They don't have violent video games.

 

[Neph]

all in all, a terrific day (considering the slaughter that could have taken place).- IGIT

Hi IGIT

I've followed your posts and you are frequently a very thoughtful person. This post though struck me a little concerning.

One must surely think this is a tragic day in every sense of the word and that there is a sickness in your country when someone would think this is terrific news.

I sincerely hope you can find a solution

Cheers

 

[HockeyBjj]

hello HockeyBjj,

definitely a good day for the "good-guy-with-a-gun" proponents. this is definitely one of the outcomes to having armed folks in schools.

all in all, a terrific day (considering the slaughter that could have taken place).

- IGIT

It’s still tragic and sad, but considering how a absolutely awful it could have become, this was a 1/10 on the richter scale

I didn’t post here just to win points for “my” side. But the argument that having a capable armed person inside the schools is a good thing does gain some merit and worth from this example, whereas the piece of fucking shit deputy in Florida I hope hasn’t burning nightmares from his demons showed it had a questionable at best end result

 

[Neph]

It’s still tragic and sad, but considering how a absolutely awful it could have become, this was a 1/10 on the richter scale

I didn’t post here just to win points for “my” side. But the argument that having a capable armed person inside the schools is a good thing does gain some merit and worth from this example, whereas the piece of fucking shit deputy in Florida I hope hasn’t burning nightmares from his demons showed it had a questionable at best end result

I know that someone being there to stop it is a good thing, I did not mean question the principles of those who are celebrating the heroic actions of the individual.

I am simply pointing out that in any other country this would be a horrific tragedy. I hope your country can find an answer to these questions because the rest of the world has really been telling you what it is and it is not being received.

 

[Armbars]

move country

Schools are pretty safe in most other places.

 

[IGIT]

Hi IGIT

I've followed your posts and you are frequently a very thoughtful person. This post though struck me a little concerning.

One must surely think this is a tragic day in every sense of the word and that there is a sickness in your country when someone would think this is terrific news.

I sincerely hope you can find a solution

Cheers

hi Neph,

IGIT is a realist. that's why he's so seldom disappointed.

i'm being serious too. if you don't think, "shit, this could have been alot worse", when disaster has struck, you're not being realistic.

that lump? you're lucky that's not metastatic cancer and just a cyst. you should be joyful of cyst. it should bring tears of relief and happiness to you.

this shooting could really easily have been far, far, far worse. i mean, what's the ceiling on what's possible in a crowded school with a good supply of ammo?

32 killing blows (33 if you count his self inflicted demise).

i'm actually surprised when the number is under ten.

- IGIT

 

[Neph]

move country

Schools are pretty safe in most other places.

I feel really bad that I am inclined to hit the like button on this. It shouldn't be this way.

 

[IGIT]

Not if those 2 or 3 folks had guns of their own. Then you'd be dead.

hello and well met MrBator,

we have to stop, i think, with this fantasy - since at this point its just propaganda.

yeah, one of the outcomes is the LEO responds heroically and triumphs in a shootout, stopping the killer early.

this is what i call a "puncher's chance". i get it. i think we all acknowledge that this is a wonderful result we had today (just 3 dead, right?).

there are other outcomes, too;

the LEOs cower and wait for backup
the good-guy-with-a-gun ends up shooting several other good guys who are in the vicinity.
the good guy with a gun accidentally discharges his gun and shoots someone by accident.
the gun the good guy had wasn't properly secured and a student gets their hands on it.

i mean, lol, the probabilities are pretty endless.

stop assuming every good guy with a gun has an inner Charles Bronson he'll call upon during the shootout scene.

- IGIT

 

[Deleted member 196663]

I feel that making schools more secure and passing gun control legislation are two different agendas that are not necessarily correlated. i think fusing the two issues complicates things. school building safety legislation and gun control legislation are two separate ideas.

Spoiler: TLDR

for instance:

raising the age for gun purchases doesn't stop someone from obtaining the gun illegally or stealing it from their parents if the household has firearms.

stricter background and mental health checks aren't a guarantee either because a person might be fine one day and lose their shit a year later.

outlawing certain weapons and modifications can decrease access to high powered weapons but there are still plenty of other dangerous weapons that can be used by individuals .

the 2016 terrorist attack in nice, france was done with a truck and resulted in 86 deaths.
the 2017 terrorist attack in new york was also done with a truck and resulted in 8 deaths.

everyone is focused on guns because they are most often used in school shootings but the individuals who commit such crimes and are committed to causing such chaos will either find a way to obtain guns or use other means so although gun control legislation may be necessary and the fight for-or-against it is beneficial to the politicians, it is not a full proof solution.

if we can compartmentalize the two issues for a moment and focus strictly on building safety, what ideas do you guys have that can potentially make schools safer?

Spoiler: TLDR

would this idea be sensible?

a regulatory law that outlined mandatory operating procedures on a national scale for all schools.
perhaps it could mandate:
1. only one or two active entrances/exits can be used while all other doors are for emergency use only.
2. a mandatory foyer/checkpoint area with metal detectors and xray machines if students or teachers have backpacks.

some might say this would make schools more like prisons, but not necessarily as it would only be making the entrance area more like a prison and not the entirety of the building. and besides, checkpoint areas with metal detectors are often used in courthouses - maybe even mandated. plus, a lot of schools in high crime areas already have them installed.

having mandatory checkpoint/processing areas might be impractical as it would congest the entrance way and require additional time for all students to enter the building, but these issues would iron themselves out over time as people adjusted to the new control mechanism

there would probably be an added cost with remodeling the current buildings, but that can be addressed with something like tax credits or federal grants.

if there are guidelines and regulations for how to securely build prisons, doesn't it also make sense to make federal guidelines/regulations for how to build secure schools? after all, the goal is to protect the students and makes the building safer.

if gun control was completely off the table, what would you suggest can be done to make schools safer?

Separate the shitty students from the students that actually want to learn. Because that bottom filth encourages the middle more than the top does.

 

[Neph]

stop assuming every good guy with a gun has an inner Charles Bronson he'll call upon during the shootout scene.- IGIT

If I could like this post multiple times I would. But I particularly like this comment with regards to arming teachers.

It is hard to imagine that Ms Clark, the 54 year old English teacher, is going to be a crack shot and stop an armed, prepared intruder, notwithstanding that surely her gun must be stowed somewhere securely and safely and therefore takes time to find.

 

[IGIT]

It’s still tragic and sad, but considering how a absolutely awful it could have become, this was a 1/10 on the richter scale

I didn’t post here just to win points for “my” side. But the argument that having a capable armed person inside the schools is a good thing does gain some merit and worth from this example, whereas the piece of fucking shit deputy in Florida I hope hasn’t burning nightmares from his demons showed it had a questionable at best end result

hi HockeyBjj,

its unfortunate, but as i've said elsewhere in this sort of threads, its an acceptable cost for the freedoms we enjoy.

1/10 in the richter scale?

yes, that seems about right.

i don't want to engage in gruesome hypotheticals, but let me put it to you this way; if your last act on this earth was to take down as many children with you at some school in a hail of gunfire, aren't you absolutely certain you could get more than 2?

this guy - the shooter - whomever he was, will be quickly forgotten. a minor figure.

- IGIT

 

[HunterSdVa29]

the only way to do this isn't w/ gun control or perhaps even 'just' mental health changes...

Something has to be done to change the environment we produce in the US, and ONLY the US. A First World Nation where many people are willing to take the lives of many other innocent people.....and for what, exactly?

Removing say guns isn't going to cure that crazy person, nor make them less violent. Cars are pretty easy to obtain and drive through people, just normal people aren't crazy enough to do it. We have to figure out WHY it's pretty much only the US for first world, Western nations that has this specific problem (unless we count China, which has it bad as well just w/ knives/swords)

 

[IGIT]

If I could like this post multiple times I would. But I particularly like this comment with regards to arming teachers.

It is hard to imagine that Ms Clark, the 54 year old English teacher, is going to be a crack shot and stop an armed, prepared intruder, notwithstanding that surely her gun must be stowed somewhere securely and safely and therefore takes time to find.

hello Neph,

this is very true.

there was a study done in NYC, i think, a few years back...they found that trained LEO's hit their targets less than half the time from six feet out.

i have no idea that the statistic was when they were also getting shot at.

in terms of teachers, though, this is where things get philosophically tricky.

if your kid is in the classroom and a shooter bursts in, do you want the teacher to have a gun? yes or no?

it feels like a trick question, because there is no answer you can give other than "yes". the thing is, you can play this game to its logical conclusion, which is this;

why not arm the children?

why not have a few easy to use handguns "just in case of emergencies" stored in the room?

honestly, what is the argument against it? if the armed teacher tasked with guarding your kid was shot dead, do you want your kid to have a gun when faced with the marauding maniac?

yes or no?

- IGIT