How to make schools safer?

[Armbars]

In all seriousness, the only real way to ensure the kids are safe would be to have high tech security fencing and guards around the entire school perimeter. With security gates with a sign in gate for access. Costing £1000's of dollars, but ultimately stopping kids getting shot.

 

[IGIT]

hello HunterSdVa29,

the only way to do this isn't w/ gun control or perhaps even 'just' mental health changes...

Something has to be done to change the environment we produce in the US, and ONLY the US. A First World Nation where many people are willing to take the lives of many other innocent people.....and for what, exactly?

Removing say guns isn't going to cure that crazy person, nor make them less violent.

that's an interesting rationale you're using here. so, there is no real reason to deny Kim Jong-Un his nukes, right? removing the nukes isn't going to cure his crazyness, afterall, or make his less violent, aye?

Cars are pretty easy to obtain and drive through people, just normal people aren't crazy enough to do it. We have to figure out WHY it's pretty much only the US for first world, Western nations that has this specific problem (unless we count China, which has it bad as well just w/ knives/swords)

when there is a mass car killing incident taking place in the hallways of a US school, i will follow this story closely.

also, if some guy was threatening to kill you, which item evicts more anxiety in you?;

or this?;

....hmmmm.

- IGIT

 

[IGIT]

In all seriousness, the only real way to ensure the kids are safe would be to have high tech security fencing and guards around the entire school perimeter. With security gates with a sign in gate for access. Costing £1000's of dollars, but ultimately stopping kids getting shot.

herro Armbars,

yep.

that was my suggestion in a different thread. if the schools are designed like US Federal prisons - and supported by the same sort of manpower, our children would safe.

for our children!

- IGIT

 

[Neph]

hello Neph,

this is very true.

there was a study done in NYC, i think, a few years back...they found that trained LEO's hit their targets less than half the time from six feet out.

i have no idea that the statistic was when they were also getting shot at.

in terms of teachers, though, this is where things get philosophically tricky.

if your kid is in the classroom and a shooter bursts in, do you want the teacher to have a gun? yes or no?

it feels like a trick question, because there is no answer you can give other than "yes". the thing is, you can play this game to its logical conclusion, which is this;

why not arm the children?

why not have a few easy to use handguns "just in case of emergencies" stored in the room?

honestly, what is the argument against it? if the armed teacher tasked with guarding your kid was shot dead, do you want your kid to have a gun when faced with the marauding maniac?

yes or no?

- IGIT

Hi IGIT

The answer is probably not with consideration to the numbers you quoted. They might well hurt more people than they help, and this assumes they have the gun ready to go which would be ludicrously dangerous to keep an unsecured weapon at a school.

The question fails to look at the situation outside of an incredibly unlikely situation. Let's evaluate it more honestly.

0.01% of teachers will be put in a situation of facing an armed intruder with an intent to commit a mass shooting. I'm not convinced they will help the situation at all. Social benefit almost 0.
99.99% of teachers will not. Will the presence of a firearm with all of the associated dangers outweigh the incredibly small chance that the teacher in the 0.01% population can help? Social cost is very high (25x the gun violence rate in the US v rest of the developed world).

I think the answer is no.

The safety of the community goes down with every gun that is added to it. The gun is like a drug, you need it to defend yourself against another gun which creates only escalation, and once it is so entrenched in your culture it seems it can't be purged.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

hello HunterSdVa29,



that's an interesting rationale you're using here. so, there is no real reason to deny Kim Jong-Un his nukes, right? removing the nukes isn't going to cure his crazyness, afterall, or make his less violent, aye?



when there is a mass car killing incident taking place in the hallways of a US school, i will follow this story closely.

also, if some guy was threatening to kill you, which item evicts more anxiety in you?;

or this?;

....hmmmm.

- IGIT

Korea is illegally obtaining nukes, they only have one use as well (unlike a gun, or car)....not sure if that was a serious analogy b/c it was atrocious

I've been in combat playa, i'm not remotely concerned about anyone threatening to kill me

 

[Armbars]

herro Armbars,

yep.

that was my suggestion in a different thread. if the schools are designed like US Federal prisons - and supported by the same sort of manpower, our children would safe.

for our children!

- IGIT

Yeah, to me security is the only logical answer.

 

[IGIT]

Social benefit almost 0.

hi again Neph,

i could boil down your POV to this, and i would agree.

i actually see private firearm ownership as having almost zero societal benefit in the United States. its a right that's protected by law, but i don't really see much upside to it.

its just the way things are.

- IGIT

 

[IGIT]

hello HunterSdVa29,

Korea is illegally obtaining nukes, they only have one use as well (unlike a gun, or car)....not sure if that was a serious analogy b/c it was atrocious

how is NK getting a nuke illegal now that they've pulled out of any non-proliferation treaties they've signed in the past?

and yeah, they only have one real use - to deter attack. that's why no one has used one offensively since Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

I've been in combat playa, i'm not remotely concerned about anyone threatening to kill me

i've been in combat too, but only in Counterstrike.

i feel confident in saying that for most of us normal people, the idea of someone chasing us with a knife is strangely comforting when the alternative would be them chasing us with a semi-automatic weapon.

- IGIT

 

[HunterSdVa29]

hello HunterSdVa29,



how is NK getting a nuke illegal now that they've pulled out of any non-proliferation treaties they've signed in the past?

and yeah, they only have one real use - to deter attack. that's why no one has used one offensively since Hiroshima and Nagasaki.



i've been in combat too, but only in Counterstrike.

i feel confident in saying that for most of us normal people, the idea of someone chasing us with a knife is strangely comforting when the alternative would be them chasing us with a semi-automatic weapon.

- IGIT

I guess, either one requires line of sight and accuracy

In reality, the vast vast vast vast vast vast majority of people will NEVER be in either situation

 

[IGIT]

I guess, either one requires line of sight and accuracy

herro Hunter,

lol.

you really need to play some FPS games.

melee vs ranged. the ranged isn't a bow and arrow, either.

this guy...

vs this guy...

can i pick first?

- IGIT

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

And this is why it will never happen but people will keep talking about "We've got to do something." Unless you're going to quit your job and be home with your kid and make sure that one parent is home with all the other kids too, unless you're going to do that - we're just pretending that we want to solve the problem.

Because the problem is socialization and deciding what's normal/good. And while you might not want some random liberal scum doing the teaching, the kid is still learning socialization and what's normal from somewhere. And unless the parent is giving a significantly larger amount of time to that task, the parent isn't doing most of the teaching either.

My wife and I home-schooled our daughter for about half of a year. It's entirely possible.


I find it peculiar when two people are committed to having children together, yet neither of them are willing to sacrifice their precious little career to actually spend time with the children they've committed to have.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

herro Hunter,

lol.

you really need to play some FPS games.

melee vs ranged. the ranged isn't a bow and arrow, either.

this guy...

vs this guy...

can i pick first?

- IGIT

is the other person armed? cuz if so, you're done son
you know like this kid today that got merc'd

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

The sticks and stones analogy has it's problems because if I want to hurt you then I better get a better tool than just words. It's also untrue because words hurt. And it's easy to tell a kid to disregard that hurt feeling when the most dangerous tool he can acquire are sticks and stones but when he can get his hands on a gun...well, he can return hurt for hurt.

I'm all for toughening up kids but "words will never hurt me" just isn't true emotionally.

That phrase was never meant to be true.

All insults, from schoolyard insults to the most well written retort on incorrect philosophy, are attempts at reframing.

Insults are attempt to frame. The frame is, that the person being insulted is somehow inferior to the person using the insult.

The use of the phrase "sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never hurt me" is a childhood level attempt at reframing an insult. It's an attempt to notify the implied superiority that comes with the insulter.

 

[IGIT]

is the other person armed? cuz if so, you're done son
you know like this kid today that got merc'd

hello Hunter,

anyway, obviously all school shootings would probably be less prolific if the crazed killers only had knives and swords.

i'm way more comfortable on my odds of escaping some guy wandering the halls of my condo with a sword, as opposed to a semi auto.

- IGIT

 

[HunterSdVa29]

hello Hunter,

anyway, obviously all school shootings would probably be less prolific if the crazed killers only had knives and swords.

i'm way more comfortable on my odds of escaping some guy wandering the halls of my condo with a sword, as opposed to a semi auto.

- IGIT

fair pt, but my original pt was about why we're producing mass/school killers in the first place....

yes, they'd likely get 'less done' w/ knives or other melee based weapons, but it doesn't change the fact that we have still have mad people w/ serious issues willing to kill innocent people

 

[IGIT]

fair pt, but my original pt was about why we're producing mass/school killers in the first place....

hi there HunterSdVa29,

yes.

that, really, is the only relevant question.

to my way of thinking, the question will solve itself in the form of sweeping gun legislation that radically curtails 2nd amendment rights. its bound to happen one day, you know?

there is going to be a school shooting that is so absolutely out there, that something will happen.

it's only a matter of time.

- IGIT

 

[HunterSdVa29]

hi there HunterSdVa29,

yes.

that, really, is the only relevant question.

to my way of thinking, the question will solve itself in the form of sweeping gun legislation that radically curtails 2nd amendment rights. its bound to happen one day, you know?

there is going to be a school shooting that is so absolutely out there, that something will happen.

it's only a matter of time.

- IGIT

so all those people that have serious mental issues now and may choose to use a gun...

will just be all better? and harm nobody?

I guess I don't understand how altering the tool used, actually addresses the underlying issue that causes those acts. If guns were reanimating and firing themselves, i'd say ban them all. But they don't

 

[IGIT]

so all those people that have serious mental issues now and may choose to use a gun...

will just be all better? and harm nobody?

I guess I don't understand how altering the tool used, actually addresses the underlying issue that causes those acts. If guns were reanimating and firing themselves, i'd say ban them all. But they don't

hi HunterSdVa29,

i'm not interested in mental issues, and neither - let's be honest here - is the rest of the country. it's just a weird term that gets used. alot.

when i hear "mental health issues", i hate to admit it, but all i see is a white kid from the suburbs - who needed to get laid. that's it.

as to the tool, i just return you to my Kim Jong metaphor. if its not a big deal, why not let Kim have his nukes?

- IGIT

 

[sickc0d3r]

A little tolerance and empathy in our culture would go a long way. Unfortunately, that seems completely out of reach these days.

 

[MicroBrew]

Ban Schools !
Only have Home Schooling !