How Sean Strickland Dismantled Israel Adesanya

[TheMaster]

A WC guy does trapping not parries

This statement is pure nonsense. Pak sau means "slapping parry".
Trapping is only if there is a rare opportunity for it.

, sticks to his opponent.. doesn't let him breath, goes forward hitting all the time to not give him a chance. All that is the idea at least. Strickland didn't do WC man

That's is largely the strategy for a self defence scenario yes, when the attacker is coming forward with full intent, and you blitz finish them quickly.

It's obviously not going to work like that in a 20 foot ring where there is space to move in and out, and you need to find your opening. So it would need to be adapted.

I have suggested the term 'hybrid Wing Chun Boxing' as the closest approximation to what he is doing, and a template for any serious Wing Chun fighter to apply a similar approach. You need some skills from finding range and openings. Closing the range with pressure to make it a close quarter fight which is what he did is one way to achieve this.

Very late to the conversation, but as I mentioned earlier I used to fight for the same gym as him and I can assure you guys, he is not cross training wing chun. I don't know if that was argument, but if it was, he definitely is not.

That wasn't the argument no. If you have the patience to go through the thread you will find the argument and attempts to dispute it, and the responses going back and forth from multiple angles. I fully stand by my position and believe it is self evident at this point.

 

[noc]

This statement is pure nonsense. Pak sau means "slapping parry".
Trapping is only if there is a rare opportunity for it.



That's is largely the strategy for a self defence scenario yes, when the attacker is coming forward with full intent, and you blitz finish them quickly.

It's obviously not going to work like that in a 20 foot ring where there is space to move in and out, and you need to find your opening. So it would need to be adapted.

I have suggested the term 'hybrid Wing Chun Boxing' as the closest approximation to what he is doing, and a template for any serious Wing Chun fighter to apply a similar approach. You need some skills from finding range and openings. Closing the range with pressure to make it a close quarter fight which is what he did is one way to achieve this.


That wasn't the argument no. If you have the patience to go through the thread you will find the argument and attempts to dispute it, and the responses going back and forth from multiple angles. I fully stand by my position and believe it is self evident at this point.

No, means slapping hand, is used to stick to the opponent, a parry is just deflection

So in the ring there is space, and in self defence we fight in a elevator. WC was used in Challenge fights, kind of Vale Tudo

So Strickland is the best WC fighter ever, and didn't even train WC

 

[TheMaster]

No, means slapping hand, is used to stick to the opponent, a parry is just deflection

No, Pak sau is used primarily to parry punches.

Trapping is a special case only if circumstances make available. Mostly you train to just parry and hit.

So in the ring there is space, and in self defence we fight in a elevator. WC was used in Challenge fights, kind of Vale Tudo

So Strickland is the best WC fighter ever, and didn't even train WC

To the extent WC is based on universal principles of bridging, parry, deflection and close range striking with control of centreline, Strickland has rediscovered this through his training and is the best to apply it in an MMA context so far yes.

 

[noc]

No, Pak sau is used primarily to parry punches.
View attachment 1009094
Trapping is a special case only if circumstances make available. Mostly you train to just parry and hit.


To the extent WC is based on universal principles of bridging, parry, deflection and close range striking with control of centreline, Strickland has rediscovered this through his training and is the best to apply it in an MMA context so far yes.

That guy says.. that is just a drill to learn how to attack, not a defensive manoeuvre, he says you should not do that to defend from a punch

So Strickland is the chosen one
Show his style to the most legit WC masters to heard what they think hahah

 

[TheMaster]

That guy says.. that is just a drill to learn how to attack, not a defensive manoeuvre

He is literally demoing practicing parries and then a parry with step in follow up punches without any 'trapping'. Parrying and countering is a core Wing Chun skillset.

So Strickland is the chosen one
Show his style to the most legit WC masters to heard what they think hahah

They think it has strong aspects of Wing Chun, both in technique and principles.

The traditional system has to be adapted to MMA, but likewise has a lot more to it in a self defence scenario also.

 

[noc]

He is literally demoing practicing parries and then a parry with step in follow up punches without any 'trapping'. Parrying and countering is a core Wing Chun skillset.


They think it has strong aspects of Wing Chun, both in technique and principles.

The traditional system has to be adapted to MMA, but likewise has a lot more to it in a self defence scenario also.

There is a video where he says.. u would get hit if u do that as "parry", he dont use that word, he says block, says is just to practice attacks

Also he talks about attack on the attack.. thats Bruce Lee influence on Wong Shun, Bruce took that from Fencing.. interception

 

[TheMaster]

There is a video where he says.. u would get hit if u do that as "parry", he dont use that word, he says block, says is just to practice attacks

Don't really know what you are referring to. The clip I have posted by one of the worlds top WC coaches very clearly shows parrying and doing follow up punches, which is how you would generally use pak sau and how I have also learned it in different schools.

'Trapping' is only if the position is there like at very close range if their arms are crossed for a split second. It's not a common position that occurs. It's also more likely if training WC vs WC and not if it's WC vs boxing or kickboxing.

 

[noc]

Don't really know what you are referring to. The clip I have posted by one of the worlds top WC coaches very clearly shows parrying and doing follow up punches, which is how you would generally use pak sau and how I have also learned it in different schools.

'Trapping' is only if the position is there like at very close range if their arms are crossed for a split second. It's not a common position that occurs. It's also more likely if training WC vs WC and not if it's WC vs boxing or kickboxing.

Those masters you referred to.. about Strickland, are legit or they just have big schools? if they have money entering.. they would say anything hahah

 

[TheMaster]

Those masters you referred to.. about Strickland, are legit or they just have big schools? if they have money entering.. they would say anything hahah

Well I would disagree with him on not doing the pak sau across the line for an incoming punch...it depends on the position. He is emphasising a more aggressive type of parrying. Like I said Pak Sau is generally used as a parry combined with counter punches. It can be used as a trap but only of the position allows it.

This is clip of another world expert WC master training the parry and counter punches.

 

[noc]

Well I would disagree with him on not doing the pak sau across the line for an incoming punch...it depends on the position. He is emphasising a more aggressive type of parrying. Like I said Pak Sau is generally used as a parry combined with counter punches. It can be used as a trap but only of the position allows it.

This is clip of another world expert WC master training the parry and counter punches.

Thats more like a block removal, what Lomachenko does

 

[TheMaster]

Thats more like a block removal, what Lomachenko does

Parrying, trapping, block removal, they can all be done its not limited. Depends on the situation.

 

[shincheckin]

I just watched the highlights of the fight. I'm not sure what all the hype is about the Philly shell or what not. He fought with his lead hand low and used quite a few elbow/forearm block philly shell style blocks sure. I don't see anything different or spectacular or some special style. I think it's probably more along the lines of bandwagon hype for beating the top guy. He looked to have a size advantage on him, Izzy could be past his prime? Sean seems to be in his prime. Didn't look like he feared Izzy or gave him any respect, just walked right threw him and didn't buy into any of his tricky 1 shot strikes. I noticed Sean reaching for blocks quite a bit, id view this as a technical flaw, and something a opponent could capitalize on by feinting. Obviously much easier said then done when your not the one in there worried about getting cracked especially after you already been hit hard.

 

[TheMaster]

I noticed Sean reaching for blocks quite a bit, id view this as a technical flaw, and something a opponent could capitalize on by feinting. Obviously much easier said then done when your not the one in there worried about getting cracked especially after you already been hit hard.

It's called "bridging", a staple defensive strategy of Southern Chinese martial arts, and he has mastered it in this context.
It's one of the unique aspects of his style in MMA at the moment that he seems to have independently adapted.
While you are sitting there calling it 'a technical flaw', it sounds slightly ridiculous when he has just beaten one of the greatest MMA kickboxer strikers of all time in a pure standup fight, waking him down at close range and using this bridging parry/deflection centerline control style.

However the point about bridging being susceptible to feints is valid and one I have considered in my own training. The skill is to not overextend or overcommit the bridge until or unless it makes contact with an incoming strike thus not compromising one's structure and not leaving one excessively open if it turns out to be a feint.

By the same token, the risk of not bridging or 'reaching for blocks' as you put it, is that you risk getting hit in the head or body since you are not neutralising the strikes further away from you. You also would need to rely far more on footwork and head movement defensively to avoid taking the impact of the strikes close to you. It's a different strategy to combat.

I would suggest to stop trying to interpet his style through the lens of what you do and know how to do, and see it in terms of what it is and what he is making work in there.

Seans style which involves staying at close range and controlling the centreline works because of the 'Wing Chun style' bridging and deflection, take that away he would have to completely change his fighting style and it wouldn't work.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it as they say.

 

[rmongler]

They think it has strong aspects of Wing Chun, both in technique and principles.

The traditional system has to be adapted to MMA, but likewise has a lot more to it in a self defence scenario also.

If he'd slipped up and Adesanya had KO'd him for it, that would be the last thing they'd try to say.

Exact same moments done exact same way up to that point, but if different result in the end, totally different response.

I know because this is exactly what happens every time a fighter gets on a hot streak; and conversely, when a fighter starts losing too. None of these guys have the intellectual integrity to consistently analyze the things both parties do in a fight. Successful parties getting their success attributed to dumb shit that flatters the speaker is an all too often happenstance. The winner themselves is usually complicit in this, to rationalize all their habits as valid, including and especially bad ones.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

i don't know why people say it's the philly shell, it's more like the cross arm defense. he starts off as a philly shell, hiding his chin behind his shoulder like a shield but when he actually gets his arms up, it turns into the cross arm defense, or "The Lock" that Archie Moore utilized and made famous. it's a form of defense that was used in bare knuckle boxing back in the day, which is unsurprisingly good for MMA and it's small gloves.

 

[TheMaster]

If he'd slipped up and Adesanya had KO'd him for it, that would be the last thing they'd try to say.

Exact same moments done exact same way up to that point, but if different result in the end, totally different response.

No this isn't true. Wing Chun principles are Wing Chun principles. Seeing some of them used effectively by a fighter, albeit one trained mainly in Muay Thai and boxing who has come to them in developing his own style, still proves the essential principles and is worthy of note.

Clearly, if Strickland had gotten KO'd at the end, even if he had been making said principles and techniques work for the prior 4 rounds it would have put a real downer on calling attention to this fight as a rare demonstration of effective application of WC type methods at the highest level of the sport.

This still holds true to an extent if Strickland gets KOd somewhere down the line in future employing this style. And no-one is saying its not a possibility, just as many top boxers and kickboxers have gotten KOd during otherwise successful careers. Yet the result of this fight stands. And the more he makes this 'unique' system of striking he is using work in the UFC, the more it makes those who take Wing Chun seriously as a combat science feel good about getting guys properly cross trained and having good success in this sport.

Since you like to comment a lot on this topic, you can read the below article if you want which is applicable and explains the position taken by knowledge and skilled practitioners

What’s Wrong With Wing Chun Today? | Wing Chun Illustrated

Pseudo Wing Chun “masters” who wouldn’t know a Taan Sau from a brick, but who have the audacity to condemn skilful practitioners, seem a dime a dozen these days.

www.wingchunillustrated.com

 

[StonedLemur]

fucking excellent post man.

Yeah this dude is tremendous.
Does his homework and his writing keeps you reading.

 

[JudoJabs]

There is a big discussion about this on the main UFC forums as well.
Like it or not, its a Wing Chun type style and proven to be effective now which is what we always knew.
Not classic Philly Shell at all because of the MMA gloves and rulset.

- Upright narrow stance
- Standing square, both hands equidistant
- Extensive use of hand parrying
- Hardly any head or body movement, not a boxing strategy at all but keeps balanc and faster counters.
- 'Wing arm' deflections, or bong sau in Wing Chun
- Mainly straight line punches down the centerline
- Straight thrust kicks
- Doesn't use hooks or looping punches unless opening is there and opponent is hurt

MMA has adapted many techniques from Filipino boxing and rates styles to make this work.
Strickland has made it work, don't know how much influence he or his trainers have from other arts but he has an excellent atypical striking style.
He has also set a template for every Wing Chun man to make the art work, adapting some additional boxing methods where necessary as a supplement.

I don't give damn how many people want to deny or hate, I know what I am seeing.
People far more qualified than anyone on here have already discussed the parallels so they can STFU.



* additional point: The effectiveness of this close range hand parrying, elbow forearm deflections, square stance system with straight line attacks opens up even more opportunities when the added restrictions of MMA ruleset are removed.



Things just got interesting

Excellent post

 

[Da Speeit]

Well I would disagree with him on not doing the pak sau across the line for an incoming punch...it depends on the position. He is emphasising a more aggressive type of parrying. Like I said Pak Sau is generally used as a parry combined with counter punches. It can be used as a trap but only of the position allows it.

This is clip of another world expert WC master training the parry and counter punches.

This shit is so lame

 

[shincheckin]

All the reaching on the blocks makes him vulnerable for feints.

Constantly jab the body, noticed he's reaching, fake and go up top.

I think he's going to fuck DDP up though.