Hope for Frank Mir!

[dim_]

Mir has said that he doesn't know what he ate and didn't keep records so I think it's unlikely. I think best case scenario he'll talk his way down to a 9 month suspension based on the whole situation being very unlikely having resulted from intentional use.

There is absolutely nothing to suggest that the situation is unlikely to have to been intentional. What evidence is there that it wasnt intentional.

He will get two years. If he tries to fight it and carries on with the ludicrous kangaroo story he could be looking at 4 years.

 

[Peteyandjia]

You know IV's are used to mask ped use, which i why they are banned under teh wada code.

Fighters can still have IV's if there is a verifiable medical need.

You know IV's are also used to hydrate areas of the body faster than oral ingestion of water, thus leading to less potential health problems as a result of dehydration.

Dehydration from weight-cutting is THE # 1 health concern in MMA right now, in my opinion.

Rather than addressing this issue - I'm all for systematically eradicating weight-cutting in an intelligent way, by the way - USADA simply bans IV use, punishing every normal healthy fighter who is clean and uses it for legitimate purposes.

This is absurd in my view, and again, more importantly: dangerous.

 

[dim_]

What I am saying is I don't believe he used intentionally. Look at the timeline @KONE laid out and that much makes sense for me.

He said it in his first podcast explaining the situation.

He failed the test he knew was coming on March 20th, the day of his fight. He passed a random drug test on Feb 2nd. Apparently TBol has a 6 week detection period, and they found "trace amounts" of it. So basically, he would've had to have taken it for a week if he did it. Lol.



Machida should also have his career ended because he took DHEA and forgot to check if it was on the USADA banned list :^)

Ok the tuff about Tbol having 6 week detection period isnt altogether true.. it actually has a very short half life, and how long it remains detectable varies wildly from person to person.

Could be out of your system in a week, could be there as long as 6 weeks, but this 6 week thing is coming from Frank, we just have his word on that. doesnt mean it is in everyones system for 6 week.

Larry Pepe actually covered it really well in his podcast this week. about 2/3 of the way in. (episode 400)

http://prommaradio.com/2016/04/30/p...tm_campaign=Feed:+ProMmaRadio+(PRO+MMA+RADIO)

Larry gives a really good oversight on the whole Mir situation and is pretty well bang on the money. And he knows heis stuff as far as steroids go. Hes c ertainly more reliable than the Frank and Chael show

but the 6 week thing i very very innacurate.

Second point of note. The February and March samples went to different labs. Lab can have diffferent LOD (Limit of detection) and LOQ (Limit of quantification) depending on equipment, analysis method etc. Its perfectly possible that Tbol was in his first sample, just not detected by that particular lab, but was picked up by the second (tokyo) lab.

 

[dim_]

You know IV's are also used to hydrate areas of the body faster than oral ingestion of water, thus leading to less potential health problems as a result of dehydration.

Dehydration from weight-cutting is THE # 1 health concern in MMA right now, in my opinion.

Rather than addressing this issue - I'm all for systematically eradicating weight-cutting in an intelligent way, by the way - USADA simply bans IV use, punishing every normal healthy fighter who is clean and uses it for legitimate purposes.

This is absurd in my view, and again, more importantly: dangerous.

The simple answer is dont cut stupid amounts of weight.

IV's are used to mask PED use, mess with the blood passport, which is why they are banned.


not allowing fighters IV is in no way dangerous... Fighters cutting weight to the point they are in genuine phsyical danger, that is dangerous.

How do you decide which IV using fighters re clean and which ones are using it to mask ped use?


Its totally down to the athletes if they decide to dehydrate to the point of death.. not usada or wada's fault. ]

there is also no evidence that iv is any more effective than oral for normal levels of dehydration.

 

[Peteyandjia]

Ok the tuff about Tbol having 6 week detection period isnt altogether true.. it actually has a very short half life, and how long it remains detectable varies wildly from person to person.

Could be out of your system in a week, could be there as long as 6 weeks, but this 6 week thing is coming from Frank, we just have his word on that. doesnt mean it is in everyones system for 6 week.

Larry Pepe actually covered it really well in his podcast this week. about 2/3 of the way in. (episode 400)

http://prommaradio.com/2016/04/30/pro-mma-radio-400-final-chapter-of-the-mcgregor-ufc-200-drama-legal-troubles-ped-problems-usada-q1-numbers-mma-headlines/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+ProMmaRadio+(PRO+MMA+RADIO)

Larry gives a really good oversight on the whole Mir situation and is pretty well bang on the money. And he knows heis stuff as far as steroids go. Hes c ertainly more reliable than the Frank and Chael show

but the 6 week thing i very very innacurate.

Second point of note. The February and March samples went to different labs. Lab can have diffferent LOD (Limit of detection) and LOQ (Limit of quantification) depending on equipment, analysis method etc. Its perfectly possible that Tbol was in his first sample, just not detected by that particular lab, but was picked up by the second (tokyo) lab.

I absolutely love Larry Pepe, and his podcast Pro MMA Radio has been my 1st go-to since its very first episode, a zillion years ago.

That said: Pepe has a confirmation bias when it comes to all things PEDs. He gets a hard-on that would make Jeff Novitzky's look flaccid.

( Some around here say you do too, btw. )

 

[dim_]

Found Larry Pepe's bit on Mir

http://prommaradio.com/2016/04/30/p...tm_campaign=Feed:+ProMmaRadio+(PRO+MMA+RADIO)

Starts at 36m30

 

[dim_]

I absolutely love Larry Pepe, and his podcast Pro MMA Radio has been my 1st go-to since its very first episode, a zillion years ago.

That said: Pepe has a confirmation bias when it comes to all things PEDs. He gets a hard-on that would make Jeff Novitzky's look flaccid.

( Some around here say you do too, btw. )

Point is, hes 100x more reliable as far a Mir's case goes than Frank & Chael who are basically a comedy duo

 

[DaveHilly]

There is absolutely nothing to suggest that the situation is unlikely to have to been intentional. What evidence is there that it wasnt intentional.

He will get two years. If he tries to fight it and carries on with the ludicrous kangaroo story he could be looking at 4 years.

The evidence is essentially that the substance takes six weeks to exit your system and he was tested 6 weeks out, which he passed. So that'd mean that he would've taken the substance for a day or two and then stopped pretty much immediately or else the amounts in his system would've been higher than the extremely trace metabolites that they found.

So why would you take a PED for a day or two? It just doesn't work that way.

 

[dim_]

The evidence is essentially that the substance takes six weeks to exit your system and he was tested 6 weeks out, which he passed. So that'd mean that he would've taken the substance for a day or two and then stopped pretty much immediately or else the amounts in his system would've been higher than the extremely trace metabolites that they found.

So why would you take a PED for a day or two? It just doesn't work that way.

Evidence?
Whereth cometh from this evidence?

This is the "evidence" according to Frank?

The six week thing is nonsense.. depends how much you take, depends on your metabolism, the 6 week thing is something he read on the internet and just started quoting as fact..


If I take 25mg a day, and you take 100mg a day, how does it work that we both suddenly are clean in 6 weeks?

It could be out of his system in a week, it could be out of his system in 3 weeks, it could be out of his system in 6 weeks, there is no "set" figure.



The second issue i, we dont even know if his first sample was analysed for Turinabol. They dont analyse every single sample for every single thing. Alternatively, it was two different labs handled the two tests (the Tokyo lab handling the second one). Different labs, different LOD and LOQ. Could well be Turinabol was present in both but second lab had more sensitive equipment.

But "What Frank says" certainly isnt evidence..

Man if you guy (Sherdoggers in general) irrationally defend every single person who fails a test you gonna be busy bunnies.


(I also am pretty sure and this isnt aimed at @DaveHilly but aimed generally... If Frank had been Brazilian there would be countless threads about how ridiculous his entire kangaroo defence was..)

 

[Pacemaker Joe]

Where did you read he took Tbol?

Mir said that's what he failed for on his own podcast.

http://phoneboothfighting.com/025-frank-mir-discusses-his-failed-usada-drug-test

 

[Bjjpitbull8]

Mir said that's what he failed for on his own podcast.

http://phoneboothfighting.com/025-frank-mir-discusses-his-failed-usada-drug-test

Damn he's gonna get crucified for using that.

 

[Carniusss]

The USADA witch trials has a nice ring to it! Whey isolate and creatine are next

Ban fish oil pills ino

 

[The guest]

There's not much hope so long as USADA is allowed to witch-hunt fighters and screw them over because of "trace amounts" of some worthless shit, over the counter stuff you can get at GNC, or flat-out bullshit like marijuana.

While also banning IVs for no logical reason, which literally puts fighters in MORE physical danger.

USADA is worse than steroids at this point.

I agree with everything except the IV. The reasons are more than logical and are in fact more fair. Shouldn't unfair weight advantages be eradicated like any other form of getting an unfair advantage ? Especially when it's in the fighter's best interest health wise, to do so ? Just because you're willing to risk your health to do something, and actually can do it. Doesn't mean it's right, or fair.

 

[dim_]

Id also love to know where people are getting this "trace amounts" from.

I have never seen a lab report that says "trace amounts" detected...

they all almost without exception just say "presence of x detected"

This appears to be again, something "Frank Said"....

 

[GordaoPreguico]

How do you get from clentbuterol in Mexico (clen is used in mexico and china in beef production, banned everywhere else but very few livestock controls in those countries)

to

Steroid in Australian Kangaroos?

What next?

Epo in Canadian chickens?

Stanozololo in Brazilian chickens?




There is absolutely nolink between Clen in Mexican beef and Turinabol in Australian Kangaroos..

And the so called "media" that have been parading this over twitter for the last two days (which i assume is where you got it) are fucking idiots

You take yourself to seriously lighten up.

 

[bd5919]

He just needs to pay them off like everyone else does.

 

[neandertal]

lol have Wada ever cleared someone after something like this... meat eating.. I dont care what the nfl is doing. It will be a miracle if he gets off.

 

[Hans Gruber]

Hope for Frank Mir!

Only if they test the Kangaroos and they test positive.

 

[dim_]

You take yourself to seriously lighten up.

i think the epo in canadian chickens was quite clearly lighthearted...

this side of the pond we dont feel the need to accompany our humour with smilies, lols, or lmfao's

 

[touchedbyjab]

Lean ground beef comes from cows that have done a 6 week cycle of Tbol prior to being butchered.