Help me in demanding a pay raise

If you're doing the work of 2.5 I would request compensation for the job done until they hire replacements. That or quit, as it's probably not worth the pain.
 
sverre054 said:
How good is your relationship with your boss? If its good and you trust him, tell him you have received several inquiries via linkedin or somewhere else. Tell him you have received an offer for significantly more money, and you are considering taking it, but you wanted to talk to him first. Tel him you wanted to talk to him first before you put in your notice, because you know they are so understaffed and will need time to replace yourself if you can't come to an agreement.

If your not friendly use the same strategy, but tell him if not, you be putting your notice by the end of the week. And be prepared to do so, sometimes after you put in your notice, is when you will get that offer. I once left a job, and 3 days before was 2 weeks was up, they offered a 20% increase and pay. I kindly refused said I already accepted another position and didn't feel like my contribution was being appreciated. They called me back 2 more time over the next 6 week, until finally I had a 40% raise, a more defined company role and overall less responsibilities, and generous stock package. You gotta be prepared to make the move though, so hopefully you give yourself a little financially cushion if you are out of work for a bit.
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Awesome response. Thanks sherbro!
 
Join a union, and pay them to negotiate your wage.

You will find it works better.
 
I've negotiated two good raises in my career. The first way was by finding a good paying job (employer b) after begging my prior employer (employer a) for a raise and being denied for years. I didn't give them the chance to match. The second was from my current employer (employer b) had to match the offer said prior employer (employer a) offered after they realized just how much they missed me. I stayed with employer b but I wouldn't run this gamble again.

Start looking for another job. Once you find it ask your current employer for a raise.
 
There's a theory that you should never accept a counter offer from your current employer. The reason is they may offer you more money just to keep you long enough to find your replacement. And if layoffs are ever necessary, high paid employees with questionable loyalty are often the first to go.

Obviously this doesn't apply to every situation but I'd keep it in mind as you negotiate.

Fedorgasm said:
2. Next up, the REAL secret to negotiation... Be willing to walk away.
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This applies in every situation. Good luck.
 
CodeBreaker said:
This is my first job, so I never had any experience or idea about it. I'm only 23 yrs of age and here is the reason why I want a raise, and is it reasonable?

I'm a developer and our dev team was composed of 5 people. We support 2 systems so we divided it. 2 developer supports the System A, and the other 2 supports the System B, while the last one partially supports both systems. So just this month, 2 dev resigned, one from each system. And just this week, the guy who supports both resigned too. Only one dev is left for each system, we are only 2 left, so how can you still call it a Support dev team? All the responsibilities of those who left were turnovered to us, and I think it is becoming too much.

How much % is the realistic demand for a pay raise? 10%? or 15%? Or is it still reasonable for 20%? Or should I just continue with my plan to resign too and look for a better job out there that pays more than what I currently have.
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What's your background stack-wise? I'd look for a new job for sure, but also ask for raise, so that when I get it I have a better bargaining position with recruiters.
 
CodeBreaker said:
This is my first job, so I never had any experience or idea about it. I'm only 23 yrs of age and here is the reason why I want a raise, and is it reasonable?

I'm a developer and our dev team was composed of 5 people. We support 2 systems so we divided it. 2 developer supports the System A, and the other 2 supports the System B, while the last one partially supports both systems. So just this month, 2 dev resigned, one from each system. And just this week, the guy who supports both resigned too. Only one dev is left for each system, we are only 2 left, so how can you still call it a Support dev team? All the responsibilities of those who left were turnovered to us, and I think it is becoming too much.

How much % is the realistic demand for a pay raise? 10%? or 15%? Or is it still reasonable for 20%? Or should I just continue with my plan to resign too and look for a better job out there that pays more than what I currently have.
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Find a different, better paying job like the others did. If you ever think you have to ask for a raise, you are working for the wrong people.
 
I don't post here often, but I can relate to this one so here's my take.

I'm also a developer supporting complex systems. I'm a senior programmer on a application support team. I fix and upgrade the systems when needed.

When I joined this team we were 3 developers supporting 4 systems.
System A - not supper complex but breaks down all the time,
System B - Pretty complex but never has issues.
System C - Very complex, lots of support time.
System D - Most complex app I've ever worked on and consistently has upgrades or added features.

Like I said we were 3 developers on this. 2 left and I'm now on my own, the intention is to get at least one more developer to help, but I've been hearing this for 3 years now. I'm still the only developer on this team.

I've never asked for a Raise! I get a good pay already, could be better sure, other I work with get paid more, sure.. I do the job of 3 developers right now, and my managers know it. I stepped up, and they know it. My reputation at work is I can handle my work load and I'm dependable, I don't complain and work is done on time. I like my job right now, but when a job opportunity comes up, when a promotion could come up, how good do you think my chances will be at getting that job? Better then some fore sure..

You're 23, you're just starting your career. The scenario you're in, it happens, its not fair, deal with it.. Asking for a 10% or even 20% raise just because your work just got difficult is probably way too much. I'm 38 now, I started my IT career around your age, I've been in your shoes many times.

Step up, do the work, it will pay out in the end. Hard work always pays off..
 
Can you maintain as is? Do you really need 5 people?
 
70seven said:
I don't post here often, but I can relate to this one so here's my take.

I'm also a developer supporting complex systems. I'm a senior programmer on a application support team. I fix and upgrade the systems when needed.

When I joined this team we were 3 developers supporting 4 systems.
System A - not supper complex but breaks down all the time,
System B - Pretty complex but never has issues.
System C - Very complex, lots of support time.
System D - Most complex app I've ever worked on and consistently has upgrades or added features.

Like I said we were 3 developers on this. 2 left and I'm now on my own, the intention is to get at least one more developer to help, but I've been hearing this for 3 years now. I'm still the only developer on this team.

I've never asked for a Raise! I get a good pay already, could be better sure, other I work with get paid more, sure.. I do the job of 3 developers right now, and my managers know it. I stepped up, and they know it. My reputation at work is I can handle my work load and I'm dependable, I don't complain and work is done on time. I like my job right now, but when a job opportunity comes up, when a promotion could come up, how good do you think my chances will be at getting that job? Better then some fore sure..

You're 23, you're just starting your career. The scenario you're in, it happens, its not fair, deal with it.. Asking for a 10% or even 20% raise just because your work just got difficult is probably way too much. I'm 38 now, I started my IT career around your age, I've been in your shoes many times.

Step up, do the work, it will pay out in the end. Hard work always pays off..
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You just think that you will be considered for advancement and your chances are better than other for that position. I would bet that you are wrong. You have proven yourself valuable at the position you're in, you work cheap, don't ask for raises and do all the work that three people did before. Why would they want to replace you? They might add another job for you to do but they won't pay you any more.

30 years ago you might have been correct, but the way businesses are run now, the only chance for pay increases is to switch jobs. Management never recognizes what they have until they lose it. I saw it time and time again during the last 10 years that I worked. The company that bought the company that I worked for was management top heavy and all management thought anybody can be replaced. IT was a revolving door. The equipment companies were much the same. They had constant turnover and nobody was familiar with the systems. I had cell numbers for several of the technicians and I'd call them only to find out they no longer worked for the company. I worked pretty closely with several of these guys for a few months as we installed new equipment so I asked why they left. It was much the same as has been posted. Somebody left because they were offered more money leaving the company short handed. The remaining people had to do the work of the guy they lost with no increase in pay. If they did hire someone, they were expected to train the new guy as well as doing the work with no increase in salary. They expected people to work 60+ hours a week for the same pay. It doesn't take long before they leave.
 
I've worked at 11 different companies in the last 15 years and it still surprises me how many people undersell or underestimate their worth. Even in this economy the worker still has quite a bit of bargaining power.

Once a company hires you and you prove yourself to be as valuable as the other employees, most management teams will do everything in their power to keep you on the clock. Let's face it, hiring and training a new employee is a huge waste of time and money. This is true even for low pay, low skill jobs like the service industry.

The key is telling management the truth. "Hey, I produce X amount of product a day, Billy Bob also produces X amount of product a day yet you pay him $10 more an Hour than me."
Management, "well Billy Bob has been working for our company for 20 years, you think you deserve to earn as much as a 20 year employee?"
You, "well I've been working here for 6 months and I already produce the same as Billy Bob, so you tell me?"

If that doesn't work, tell them you have another job lined up(even if you don't)and they'll usually cave. If they call you out on your bullshit its all good, you're still making the same as you were before, and now you have good reason to put extra effort into finding a new job because you already know what the ceiling is at your current job.

Almost forgot to ad, this only works of you know how much your co-workers earn. This is easy to find out, just go around on your break and ask each and every one of them how much they are paid. Some will refuse to tell you, but a good 80-90% of your co workers will give you that info as soon as you ask. It's in everyone's best interest to know how much everyone makes. You can even tell your co workers the truth if they ask why you want to know how much they make. "I'm trying to get a raise and I want to compare compensation." Most of them will oblige you.
 
CodeBreaker said:
With how complex the systems are, 5 people is still considered understaffed.
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If that's the case, then the real selling point isn't so much that you are doing so much work. Eventually, they will have to hire anyways. Your selling point needs to be how valuable you are as one of the two employees left there so that you can help train the others and get them up to speed.

You always have to put yourself in the position of the company and their outlook on the future. You leaving while taking on all of this work matters short term, but they are typically looking long term. Is paying you X amount extra for years going to outweigh costs of training and loss of productivity? You need to sell that it won't.
 
ralphc1 said:
You just think that you will be considered for advancement and your chances are better than other for that position. I would bet that you are wrong. You have proven yourself valuable at the position you're in, you work cheap, don't ask for raises and do all the work that three people did before. Why would they want to replace you? They might add another job for you to do but they won't pay you any more.

30 years ago you might have been correct, but the way businesses are run now, the only chance for pay increases is to switch jobs. Management never recognizes what they have until they lose it. I saw it time and time again during the last 10 years that I worked. The company that bought the company that I worked for was management top heavy and all management thought anybody can be replaced. IT was a revolving door. The equipment companies were much the same. They had constant turnover and nobody was familiar with the systems. I had cell numbers for several of the technicians and I'd call them only to find out they no longer worked for the company. I worked pretty closely with several of these guys for a few months as we installed new equipment so I asked why they left. It was much the same as has been posted. Somebody left because they were offered more money leaving the company short handed. The remaining people had to do the work of the guy they lost with no increase in pay. If they did hire someone, they were expected to train the new guy as well as doing the work with no increase in salary. They expected people to work 60+ hours a week for the same pay. It doesn't take long before they leave.
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This is largely dependent on the industry. Our industry is an absolute bitch to train and there isn't exactly a surplus of people already trained. We'll do a lot for a good employee. For reference, I'm clearing triple of what I started at 11 years ago.
 
Do a little research to see what someone in your position, location and level of experience makes. Is your industry close knit enough that if you started applying to other places it would get back to you boss? If it is, I'd go talk to them and tell them exactly what you just told us, your concerns and reasoning seem legit. If they wouldn't, I'd apply to some other places and at least get a better gauge of what is the going rate and benefits for the industry. You said this was your first job, so your open market value now if vastly different than it was when you first started working there as long as you've been there more than six months unless you are a total piece of crap that's dragging everyone down. Also why did the other people leave, was it purely for more money or are there issues with the company. These are all things to take into consideration.

Truth is people rarely stay at the company they first start, and to be honest you'll probably get a better monetary offer from another company than your current one, unless you are really a rising star and/or they are really hard up. Problem with the "hard up" companies is that it's a big burden put on you that in most cases isn't comparable to the salary they pay you.
 
just tell your boss you're planning on leaving but you wanna give him adequate notice. Don't even bring up money. He probably will.

Anytime I give notice I always get offered more money to stay.
 
You have them over a barrel since two people just quit. Start hinting at leaving, they'll probably play ball without much effort on your part.
 
This isn't about the work that you're doing.

What you're selling is uncertainty. As in, how certain does the future of this contract/project look if you leave just the one developer there by himself? Is that a risk to the business? What is your boss willing to pay to not fail at the project, and if failure occurs, what is going to happen to him? Will he get yelled at, or will he be fired? If the latter, he'll likely shell out a few thousand dollars of the company's money to make sure he doesn't get a pink slip. If replacing you is going to take a bunch of time, and if it's likely they will need to hire someone really expensive to jump into your role, then you will likely be seen as more critical than you see yourself (but keep in mind that you're 23 and probably not that hard to replace).

If you are in a "can't fail" project, you have some leverage. If you aren't, you have less. If leaving has significant impacts, then you have leverage. If it doesn't, then you have less.
 
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