Granny Eating Cat Food vs. Welfare Queens

[spamking]

And @HomerThompson if you're honestly curious about abuse/fraud in this system from both recipients and business owners here is an article for you to review . . .

 

[Rational Poster]

I have seen “welfare queens” so I know they exist. Are they wealthy? No. Do they game the system? Yes.

There’s a trailer park right next to a richer neighborhood near me. My dog decided to go for a stroll when he got out so I drove through it looking for his stupid deaf ass (he’s 15). I saw an Audi, an Escalade, a bmw, two Acuras, and a new Camaro. Maybe hey weee just all guests on the same day I happened to be there right?

Or maybe not everyone in the trailer park is poor and on welfare?

Maybe they spend more on their car than their house? Some people value things differently.

 

[Rational Poster]

What about all the rich people that still claim their Social Security benefits?

Can we do something about that?

 

[Based and White Pilled]

I think people scamming welfare are more common than people who can't afford to eat. I also think that welfare is available to people who don't really need it. From 2013 to mid 2017 my income was low enough to qualify for some forms of welfare (not food stamps, though) and I never needed or used any of them. The cut off could definitely be lower. People who "need" welfare shouldn't be spending money on the newest generation iPhone or expensive clothes etc etc.

That being said, many people on welfare actually need it and the image of someone not being able to afford food causes a much stronger emotional response in me.

I think your meme dichotomy really only works for the caricatures of Democrats and Republicans portrayed on television and in memes. Most people recognize the gray areas.

 

[xcvbn]

Poor people make me sick.

Which is why I support welfare because otherwise I'd trip over their malnourished/disease riddled corpses on the way to work.

 

[cincymma79]

Or maybe not everyone in the trailer park is poor and on welfare?

Maybe they spend more on their car than their house? Some people value things differently.

Possible. Extremely unlikely

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

That's another issue. Can you accept abuse of a system? Because any system will have a certain amount of abuse. So, if you can't accept abuse, you can't accept systems.

Fwiw, most analysis has indicated that it would cost more money to police the welfare system to the point that no abuse occurred than money said policing would save.

I agree, and I am certainly willing to tolerate a certain amount of abuse of the system. I people gaming the system often, but I think the situation is currently better than it was in the 80-90s.

Another avenue of reasonable criticism of our welfare system is whether or not it unduly rewards failure or destructive behavior. We naturally feel inclined to want to help people more when they are in a worse situation, but that could mean people will realize they will get more benefits by putting themselves in a worse situation. So without retracting all aid from people who are the worst off, more aid should be given to those gradually improving their lot. Again, I think the situation currently is better than in the past in this regard.

 

[luckyshot]

I think your meme dichotomy really only works for the caricatures of Democrats and Republicans portrayed on television and in memes. Most people recognize the gray areas.

The Welfare Queen and Cat Food Granny are certainly extremes-- caricatures-- as all memes are. Highly nuanced arguments have low mnemonic value. This is one of the basic problems of any democracy.

While most people "recognize the grey areas" as you say, I also think most people are influenced more than they realize by the arguments that memes represent the extreme form of.

For example, some conservatives are convinced that virtually any government program creates extreme waste and must be cut-- without ever looking at any details. Some liberals feel like all social safety net programs should be expanded in a similar way.

I also think temperamental factors play into this. For example, liberals and conservatives process empathy and disgust differently.
https://www.businessinsider.com/lib...rocess-disgust-and-empathy-differently-2018-1

 

[method115]

I don't see how eating pet food is cheaper than some of the other foot out there.

 

[Rational Poster]

Possible. Extremely unlikely

In your opinion.

I know people IRL that live in a 1 bedroom apartment, but drive a $50,000 car.

And they have more money than both of us.. so.. maybe you're just making assumptions?

 

[Jack V Savage]

Fwiw, most analysis has indicated that it would cost more money to police the welfare system than would be saved by eliminating welfare abuse.

The issue is emotional, though. There are some people who get so much negative utility from the *thought* of someone abusing the safety net that they're willing to advocate that people pay to reduce that.

FWIW, both of the images are extremely unrepresentative. Might be better to look at cultural explanations for poverty vs. structural ones. I think the evidence is extremely strong for the structural explanation. All modern economies have a fifth to a third of the population in poverty before taxes and transfers, and the reason is obvious: about half the population--mostly babies, kids, the elderly, and the disabled--in any modern economy has no income and inevitably, regardless of cultural norms, a large portion of those people will not be dependents of someone with a high enough income to keep the whole household out of poverty, especially since younger adults tend to be more fertile and have lower incomes.

 

[luckyshot]

I don't see how eating pet food is cheaper than some of the other foot out there.

This is very true. You would think "Granny eating Ramen noodles" would be the meme.

 

[Jack V Savage]

For example, some conservatives are convinced that virtually any government program creates extreme waste and must be cut-- without ever looking at any details. Some liberals feel like all social safety net programs should be expanded in a similar way.

I don't think there's really symmetry here. Most ideological conservatives (which is separate from Republican partisans or people who vote Republican for identity-based reasons but disagree with "conservatism") oppose gov't programs for their own sake. I'm not aware of any liberals who think that all safety-net programs should be expanded or who support expanding programs for their own sake (i.e., separate from beliefs about the effects of such expansion).

 

[Jack V Savage]

I've never seen any actual evidence of widespread abuse of the welfare system. It's just anecdote city. Funny how so many rightwing posters have seen welfare fraud before.

I wonder if they're being dishonest?

Also, I'd rather 10 pimps get cell phones than have one child starve.

I've seen right-wingers who think it's welfare abuse if people are making legal purchases of food that they (the right-wingers) think is too good for the purchasers.

 

[KONG-D'SNT-TAP]

People on welfare are not buying expensive cars, that’s complete bullshit.

You can not afford an expensive car with a welfare check.

 

[spamking]

I've seen right-wingers who think it's welfare abuse if people are making legal purchases of food that they (the right-wingers) think is too good for the purchasers.

If by too good you mean folks think they shouldn't be buying an expensive steak (or whatever) when they could make that money go farther by buying something less expensive . . . then sure . . . call that abuse.

 

[method115]

This is very true. You would think "Granny eating Ramen noodles" would be the meme.

There like 30cents a piece. I think at my HEB they used to be 10 for $1 might be more now. That can't be more expensive then fucking cat food.

 

[Headkicktoleg]

People on welfare are not buying expensive cars, that’s complete bullshit.

You can not afford an expensive car with a welfare check.

When I worked at the bank I saw people in Mercedes coming for their welfare checks all the time. Then they get like 6 pay day loans and never pay them back.

 

[method115]

If by too good you mean folks think they shouldn't be buying an expensive steak (or whatever) when they could make that money go farther by buying something less expensive . . . then sure . . . call that abuse.

That's not abuse that's just poor money management.

 

[Staph infection]

A lot of woman would be having a lot less children if welfare was not there.