Granny Eating Cat Food vs. Welfare Queens

[luckyshot]

Granny Eating Cat Food vs. Welfare Queens

Spoiler

In reflecting on our political discourse, I keep coming back to a quote by Carl Jung: “People don’t have ideas; ideas have people.”

The meme is probably the most potent force in politics – not memes in the sense of just internet images, but memes in Richard Dawkins sense of the term: “cultural analogues to genes that self-replicate, mutate, and respond to selective pressures.”

Memes are shorthand—that often becomes substitution – for thinking.

I think some of the difference between the left and the right in American politics can be boiled down (to some extent) to two memes that have existed for decades.

Which do you find more likely: someone getting something they don’t deserve (Welfare queen) or someone not having the basics they need to survive (Granny eating cat food)?

Which of these two memes creates a stronger emotion for you?

I’d love to see a field psychology study done measuring the “emotional potency” of these political memes and others like them.

Mods can we get a poll? (I’ve actually never once been granted a poll request, and I’d really love to see one here.)

 

[CWMMA]

I remember when I was poor.

 

[Thesnake101]

I remember the time I ate cat food, it was a while ago. It wasn't born out of desperation, but rather curiosity (the overpowering smell that it always had was all too tempting), with a sense of having to prove my manhood to my older cousin spliced in.

I took a bite, and I was pleasantly surprised to find out that it didn't taste as bad as I imagined, at first. As soon as it all settled in, in my mouth, I realized that not all was good in Wonderland, that the world was not black & white, that not all things are how you expect them to be, that fantasies are just that, and have no way of becoming a reality, because even if you manage to luck out, and get to your dream scenario, it will just be an approximation of what you've imagined, not the real deal, but most of all, I learned that my palate was quite different to that of a feline.

You see, the flavors that exploded in my mouth were nothing short of vile, and while they did not make me gag, I still wish to this day that I had spat it out, but alas, my machismo was working to its maximum effect that day.

As soon as I swallowed, I felt like I had been liberated, like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders, because, even if I could still taste the remains of the cat food, it wasn't anywhere near as strong as before. After that, I decided to never partake in dare or challenge like that ever again, except for the time I snorted salt in my classroom, but that's a story for another day.

 

[cincymma79]

I have seen “welfare queens” so I know they exist. Are they wealthy? No. Do they game the system? Yes.

There’s a trailer park right next to a richer neighborhood near me. My dog decided to go for a stroll when he got out so I drove through it looking for his stupid deaf ass (he’s 15). I saw an Audi, an Escalade, a bmw, two Acuras, and a new Camaro. Maybe hey weee just all guests on the same day I happened to be there right?

 

[luckyshot]

I have seen “welfare queens” so I know they exist. Are they wealthy? No. Do they game the system? Yes.

There’s a trailer park right next to a richer neighborhood near me. My dog decided to go for a stroll when he got out so I drove through it looking for his stupid deaf ass (he’s 15). I saw an Audi, an Escalade, a bmw, two Acuras, and a new Camaro. Maybe hey weee just all guests on the same day I happened to be there right?

Do you doubt that the other meme is equally real?

Fear of Hunger Stalks Many Elderly
https://www.nytimes.com/1993/11/16/nyregion/fear-of-hunger-stalks-many-elderly.html

Some Seniors in Kent County Strapped for Cash, Eat Pet Food to Save Money
http://www.wboc.com/story/23662934/...-strapped-for-cash-eat-pet-food-to-save-money

I remember the time I ate cat food, it was a while ago. It wasn't born out of desperation, but rather curiosity (the overpowering smell that it always had was all too tempting), with a sense of having to prove my manhood to my older cousin spliced in.

I took a bite, and I was pleasantly surprised to find out that it didn't taste as bad as I imagined, at first. As soon as it all settled in, in my mouth, I realized that not all was good in Wonderland, that the world was not black & white, that not all things are how you expect them to be, that fantasies are just that, and have no way of becoming a reality, because even if you manage to luck out, and get to your dream scenario, it will just be an approximation of what you've imagined, not the real deal, but most of all, I learned that my palate was quite different to that of a feline.

You see, the flavors that exploded in my mouth were nothing short of vile, and while they did not make me gag, I still wish to this day that I had spat it out, but alas, my machismo was working to its maximum effect that day.

As soon as I swallowed, I felt like I had been liberated, like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders, because, even if I could still taste the remains of the cat food, it wasn't anywhere near as strong as before. After that, I decided to never partake in dare or challenge like that ever again, except for the time I snorted salt in my classroom, but that's a story for another day.

I've never eaten cat food. I have tried dog biscuits from time to time. Trader Joe's peanut butter brand is not bad at all.

But the memes are not meant to be literally, I don't think. No one thinks someone on food stamps is a literal member of a hereditary royal family, right?

 

[Devout Pessimist]

I'm reminded of the character from GLOW whose wrestling name is Welfare Queen.

"I let the government pay for all of my shit, and I lives like a queen"

 

[ocfightfan]

Do you doubt that the other meme is equally real?

Fear of Hunger Stalks Many Elderly
https://www.nytimes.com/1993/11/16/nyregion/fear-of-hunger-stalks-many-elderly.html

Some Seniors in Kent County Strapped for Cash, Eat Pet Food to Save Money
http://www.wboc.com/story/23662934/...-strapped-for-cash-eat-pet-food-to-save-money

So there is no welfare in Kent County? And why are you not helping these people? Reach into your fucking pocket and help them you cold hearted monster.

 

[luckyshot]

I'm reminded of the character from GLOW whose wrestling name is Welfare Queen.

"I let the government pay for all of my shit, and I lives like a queen"

Yeah, it's an old idea. Reagan started it. It's amazing how many people are utterly convinced that the welfare system is absolutely rife with abuse. If you ask them why they think this is, they will often cite one or two anecdotal cases observed from afar.

This is another way of looking at it: which ideas will you accept based on anecdotal evidence rather than actual data (confirmation bias).

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Do you doubt that the other meme is equally real?

1. I like your use of meme as a kind of self-replicating idea. Meme works well as a simple, humorous sort of propaganda as well, but both meanings are necessary imo.
2. I like the way you ask whether both things cannot be true. It's a great thing to consider. In my experience, if you want to help people who are poor or disadvantaged in some way, you will always find people who will abuse or somehow take advantage of that help negatively. But others will take advantage of it constructively.
3. I think it is practically impossible to help people if you cannot tolerate a certain amount of abuse of the system, but if one allows too much abuse of the system you become an enabler and the effectiveness of your attempt to help diminishes greatly. So it's about balance. In terms of policy, I'm not sure where the balance point is. Personally, I think I over time I've become better at knowing where the line between tolerable and intolerable abuse of my attempts to help are.

 

[Iceberg Slim]

Welfare queens eventually become cat food eating grannies, but it takes time.

 

[luckyshot]

1. I like your use of meme as a kind of self-replicating idea. Meme works well as a simple, humorous sort of propaganda as well, but both meanings are necessary imo.
2. I like the way you ask whether both things cannot be true. It's a great thing to consider. In my experience, if you want to help people who are poor or disadvantaged in some way, you will always find people who will abuse or somehow take advantage of that help negatively. But others will take advantage of it constructively.
3. I think it is practically impossible to help people if you cannot tolerate a certain amount of abuse of the system, but if one allows too much abuse of the system you become an enabler and the effectiveness of your attempt to help diminishes greatly. So it's about balance. In terms of policy, I'm not sure where the balance point is. Personally, I think I over time I've become better at knowing where the line between tolerable and intolerable abuse of my attempts to help are.

That's another issue. Can you accept abuse of a system? Because any system will have a certain amount of abuse. So, if you can't accept abuse, you can't accept systems.

Fwiw, most analysis has indicated that it would cost more money to police the welfare system than would be saved by eliminating welfare abuse.

Welfare queens eventually become cat food eating grannies, but it takes time.

Yeah, it's like they just get old and their taste drops from lobster and filet mignon to cat food. Strange phenomenon.

 

[Headkicktoleg]

I worked in a bank in the ghetto. I can tell you for a fact that people spend their welfare checks on expensive cars and cell phones while having 5 or 6 pay day loans and a 400 credit score. Then they get $10,000 "refunds" and start all over again the next year.

Also the single mother stat is skewed greatly because people purposely don't get married and the guy says he lives at his moms house so they can get more government assistance for being a single mother.

 

[cincymma79]

Yeah, it's an old idea. Reagan started it. It's amazing how many people are utterly convinced that the welfare system is absolutely rife with abuse. If you ask them why they think this is, they will often cite one or two anecdotal cases observed from afar.

This is another way of looking at it: which ideas will you accept based on anecdotal evidence rather than actual data (confirmation bias).

How about a therapist student who told us during his clinical session that he and his wife were going to have a baby before he graduated so the state would pay for it? That’s a firsthand abuse account right there. Didn’t happen though right? Dozens of families I’ve seen keep someone alive on life support to get a check, I know because they said so. I mean I could easily go on. Unlike most of you I actually work with the public. People who live together but don’t get married so they don’t lose benefits, again they tell me this.

Cat ladies? Seen it but it’s not for the reason people give in the meme. They are unable to care for themselves but family doesn’t come around. They go hungry. Seen this a few times too.

 

[Renard]

Impressive lack of self-awareness for you to be mentioning that Jung quote.

 

[zebby23]

I have seen “welfare queens” so I know they exist. Are they wealthy? No. Do they game the system? Yes.

There’s a trailer park right next to a richer neighborhood near me. My dog decided to go for a stroll when he got out so I drove through it looking for his stupid deaf ass (he’s 15). I saw an Audi, an Escalade, a bmw, two Acuras, and a new Camaro. Maybe hey weee just all guests on the same day I happened to be there right?

Anecdotes by the not so smart

 

[cincymma79]

Anecdotes by the not so smart

I didn’t see it. It isn’t really real. Knew you’d have an intelligent response

 

[zebby23]

I worked in a bank in the ghetto. I can tell you for a fact that people spend their welfare checks on expensive cars and cell phones while having 5 or 6 pay day loans and a 400 credit score. Then they get $10,000 "refunds" and start all over again the next year.

Also the single mother stat is skewed greatly because people purposely don't get married and the guy says he lives at his moms house so they can get more government assistance for being a single mother.

I wonder if you rage about Wall Street bankers ripping off the American people left and right? I’m sure you were beside yourself when we had to bail the banks out.

 

[luckyshot]

How about a therapist student who told us during his clinical session that he and his wife were going to have a baby before he graduated so the state would pay for it? That’s a firsthand abuse account right there. Didn’t happen though right? Dozens of families I’ve seen keep someone alive on life support to get a check, I know because they said so. I mean I could easily go on. Unlike most of you I actually work with the public. People who live together but don’t get married so they don’t lose benefits, again they tell me this.

Cat ladies? Seen it but it’s not for the reason people give in the meme. They are unable to care for themselves but family doesn’t come around. They go hungry. Seen this a few times too.

Did I ever say that there was no abuse in the welfare system?

Impressive lack of self-awareness for you to be mentioning that Jung quote.

Not really. Did I ever deny that I was just as much under the influence of meme as anyone else?

I just asked a simple question: given two historically "sticky" memes, which do you find more likely and motivating?

If you hate on someone for asking a neutral question, that probably says a lot more about you than about anyone else's "lack of self-awareness."

 

[zebby23]

I didn’t see it. It isn’t really real. Knew you’d have an intelligent response

Yes, you saw some nice cars in a trailer park. All welfare recipients do this. ALL of them

 

[cincymma79]

Yes, you saw some nice cars in a trailer park. All welfare recipients do this. ALL of them

That was exactly my point. You’re so smart