Gracie Combatives Review: Conclusion, Bad For The Sport

I don't think it's that big of a problem. They even admit on their website that their blue belt is different from other blue belts. If someone wants to go online and take a test, let them. If someone wants to go into a store and buy a blue belt and put it on, let them. When they actually compete the truth will come out.
 
I don't think the Gracie academy advocates or advertise's the combatives stuff for use in a sportive setting. So having the phrase "bad for the sport" isn't all that applicable.

I for one really like the set (i bought the dvds), i do train @ a normal bjj school, and use them more as an addendum to the techniques I normally use/train.

I think the big beef in general is about the belts, and I've seen enough unbelted/white belts have more than enough for the average blue belt to not really put too much focus on a belts color.

I'm of the mindset everyone/anyone can benefit from BJJ/GJJ, the physical fitness, the philosophy of it etc.

my .02
 
A couple points:

Rolling - Don't forget the drills they introduce which ensure that you get practice against mistakes that a semi-experienced jiu-jitsu practioner simply will not do. Punches, headlocks, extreme forward pressure in the guard, etc.

Handing belts out freely - What are your numbers to support this allegation? Do you know what the failure rate is of the submitted testing videos?


"I personally do not feel the students in the Gracie Combatives Program are at the same level as students compared to any or most other BJJ schools ." - Neither do I but then again I'm not familiar with all other clubs so don't have a good basis for making a judgment call on this. There are different aspects to jiu-jitsu that are taught. I'm expecting each school as it preferences that depend on the bias of the instructor. Heck even in the same school you can get wildly different approaches to the same position depending on who is teaching.

What this program has done is standardized the curriculum so one will learn the same thing no matter where one trains.

"This process grants a blue belt to people very fast. Even if an instructor prolongs the process, the extent of knowledge is 26 moves give or take, if you are following the white to blue curriculum." - I don't know where you are getting the 26 moves from. This makes me think you are not familiar with the program at all and are in fact trolling.

When running group classes they recommend a cycle of 26 classes that cover 2 techniques each class. When doing the online program there are 36 lessons. Many of those have more than one "technique" or variation. Plus specific drills to do. When I added it up there was about a hundred main techniques, variations or things to learn.

They stopped the one week instructor trainging program and have implemented a far more rigurous training program to get someone up to speed on teaching the GC program. It is far more extensive and difficult to do yet cheaper for the prospective instructor - IMHO.

There is no guarantee that in person instruction is automatically better that online training. Making a blanket statement that this is so is just silly. One does need a good training partner that can see if one is following the model presented. I don't know how many times in a live class I have seen students not able to duplicate the exact steps the instructor demonstrated. With no chance to see the lesson again until the next time the instructor shows that lesson (could be years before they see it again) they may always have it wrong.

Case in point - This reminds me of a review I read of this instructional set wherein the reviewer mentioned they were teaching the upa escape differently than they had been taught.

"This is basically giving a blue belt for clocking hours watching YouTube style instruction" - Hih?! Youtube style instruction? Define this style please.

this would make for an interesting test though. Take ten people and have them just watch the videos and see how well they do at the test. Take another ten and have them do the full program and do the test. Might see a rearkable difference. But who has the time and money to sponsor such a test?

I do know that after over a decade in BJJ I don't feel like I could pass the test. the test has exacting standards they want to see demonstrated. A simpler test would be to take a purplebelt from a "good" school let him watch the example videos of the test and submit his test after watching said videos. Take another person with no experience and have him do the full program and submit his test. Don't let the testers know who has all the prior experience and see what they have to say.

One could only speculate what would happen but I do know this - When watching "regular" guys rolling they almost never protect themselves from punches in almost all positions.


Summary:

"- If your BJJ instructor is a BLUE BELT you might be in a McDOJO."

Tell that Braulio Estima - he disagrees with this.

"- If your instructor can not promote your belt color on his own you might be at a McDojo."

Huh? Which organization are you referring to?

"- If your head instructor is a Purple Belt, you might be at a McDojo."

See comment above referring Braulio Estima.

"- If any of the above is true and you pay more than $50 a month. You might be at a McDojo."

So if you pay less than 50 dollars its not a McDojo? What if you pay 49.95? The dollar amount doesn't indicate the quality of instruction, drilling or anything else actually.

Real summary:

You're trolling. Prove me wrong.
 
I have no intentions of proving you wrong, I want to hear what people in the sport have to say. I am just speaking from what I remember from the program and personal experiences I had with some of the guys who train there, the competitors from the combatives programs within the usually tournament travel radius get dominated by people that are not that great. You are likely right about it being 36 techniques, and they are into the punch/block variations. I do not think that 10 moves make a significant difference, but you might.

Blue Belt instructors? Don't even pretend like you agree with this, If you have any kind of significant grappling experience you would not believe this, unless of course you just opened a school and wanted a few nights off, or opened a gracie combatives program...Then it is lucrative for you to say a Blue Belt instructor makes sense.

Trolling? I'm not familiar with the term I see you have used it twice. I dont know what it is but since you seem to be the expert in it, i'll let you be the judge of that.

Your response does lead me to think you are a blue who thinks highly of his skills, or you goto a school where blue and purples teach regularly. I only have to say, after awhile youll notice people you competed against in the past that you were close to in skill will start to seem like they are getting really good..... and when you want to know why that is... take a look at your blue belt coach on the sidelines, screaming random stuff at you right before you tap to a guy that you beat 4 months ago... Happens all the time when I work scoring tables I think its funny to watch the amatuers coach.
 
MeatBeater said:
I don't think it's that big of a problem. They even admit on their website that their blue belt is different from other blue belts. If someone wants to go online and take a test, let them. If someone wants to go into a store and buy a blue belt and put it on, let them. When they actually compete the truth will come out.
Click to expand...

And they are blues for crying out loud. This isn't 2002 where everyone thinks that a blue must be battle tested and a badass. It's really the very first belt that you earn.
 
ElKarlo said:
And they are blues for crying out loud. This isn't 2002 where everyone thinks that a blue must be battle tested and a badass. It's really the very first belt that you earn.
Click to expand...

I heard stories that you can get a legit blue belt in Brasil in 6 months...somehow instructors outside Brasil tend to hold back on promotion...wonder why?
 
ElKarlo said:
And they are blues for crying out loud. This isn't 2002 where everyone thinks that a blue must be battle tested and a badass. It's really the very first belt that you earn.
Click to expand...

I see your point on this, Im competition oriented so I think in terms of testing what you learn, against others learning the same art.

I have always been a "prove it" type of person when it comes to martial arts, like when the nerdy types in the wierd asian martial arts and aikido describe all the stuff they can do...I highly doubt it. Id love a steven segal to hit the octagon, that would be a funny fight.

I'm not a huge fan of the separation of sport training and self defense. I doubt someone untrained or trained in "self defense" is gonna get multiple hits and slam someone who competes often in BJJ tournaments and amatuer MMA competitions. Everyone can get that lucky punch/sucker punch/ first punch.... they can push you and or jump you etc... but to say that someone who trains competitive sport jiujitsu is at some kind of disadvantage in real life isnt realistic.
 
lechien said:
I heard stories that you can get a legit blue belt in Brasil in 6 months...somehow instructors outside Brasil tend to hold back on promotion...wonder why?
Click to expand...

Student Retention in my opinion... dangle the carrot in front of them and make them chase it for awhile. While they continue to pay their gym fee.
I dunno just a theory...
 
 
Combatives are great against someone who has NO knowledge of ground game. I know because I was able to submit all noobs I've rolled with when we organized a grappling session with a purple from a BJJ school leading the way. I studied GJJ for a few months and paid less than $50/month. Against some white belts from legit BJJ school, I tapped everytime. I quit that GJJ school because they don't roll, as TS confirmed. One poster also hit the nail on the head when he said that's a MCdojo if the instructor wears a black belt from another martial art, but is totally white or just blue with regards to BJJ. My previous instructor did just that and still does wear his striking black belt, but he's just a white belt in GJJ. Oftentimes I question his instruction politely, because having watched a lot of instructional videos and being naive and curious, I tried to compare the moves and does it differently when the instructor is not looking.

I learned a couple of moves, sure. The students are great too, helping each other whenever they can. The system to check punches while drilling each technique is also great. I left because I wanted so much more - rolling and being taught by at least a purple from a legit school, plus the fact that I cannot imagine myself wearing a bluebelt there ,if ever, just because I submitted a video of me drilling the moves. I'd rather be a white for many years but under supervision by a legit BJJ instructor. For me, earning a blue in combatives school is just not worth it and would not make me proud seeing that around my waist.

I would go for Roy Dean's blue belt and purple belt requirements instructionals everytime, if I would be made to choose between going back to that GJJ school or learning from videos with a drilling partner.
 
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Mike Harris said:
HOW DO YOU SPOT A BJJ McDOJO?
- If your instructor can not promote your belt color on his own you might be at a McDojo.
- If your head instructor is a Purple Belt, you might be at a McDojo.
- If any of the above is true and you pay more than $50 a month. You might be at a McDojo.
Click to expand...

I guess I am running a McDojo :icon_cry2:icon_cry2:icon_cry2
 
CELS said:
- If your BJJ instructor never participates in tournaments, you might be in a McDojo.
- If you BJJ instructor has never won any regional / state tournaments above white belt level, you might be in a McDojo.
- If coloured belts are promoting other coloured belts, you might be in a McDojo.
- If your BJJ instructor wears a black belt from karate, japanese ju jitsu or judo, you've just bought a happy meal your local McDojo.
Click to expand...



Yay, I'm not a McDojo!!! :icon_chee:icon_chee:icon_chee
 
Not bad for the sport at all. Profit based, obviously -- it's a business they run for profit. But the product is exceptional. I'll concede the belt promotion issue but the instruction is first rate, and they're very clear about the line between sport and defense. It's a nice piece for the library. How you interpret that to be bad for the sport is absurd. Ryron and Rener are great ambassadors to the sport.
 
ElKarlo said:
And they are blues for crying out loud. This isn't 2002 where everyone thinks that a blue must be battle tested and a badass. It's really the very first belt that you earn.
Click to expand...

True that blue belt is still a beginner rank, but certifying people to be instructors after 1 to 2 weeks (plus combatives) is terrible. The combatives vidoes are very decent quality, but it appears to me that the GJJ academy may not want their white belts to roll because the physical intensity and competition involved is discouraging for some people and often causes them to quit. Learning BJJ seems so cool when you aren't getting your ass handed to you, but once the rolling starts, a lot of people quickly realize it is not for them. This is fine...BJJ is not for everyone, but if you want to learn, then you have to roll...period.

If the the GJJ position is that it is better to train for 6 months and then start rolling, that's fine, but don't pretend that those 6 month students will minimal rolling experience have any chance of pulling off the techniques in a real combat situation. There are some people that are naturally athletic enough to pull it off, but they are very few and far between, and would probably not need BJJ to defend themselves from an average, untrained attacker. IMO...it takes years of mat time before your average person will be able to successfully employ BJJ against a crazy attacker that has a significant size and strength advantage. Deluding people in this regard may seem harmless to some, but it could also be very dangerous for a person that has confidence in a skill set that they do not possess.
 
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