Gordon Ryan subbed by Felipe Pena

the only people who hate ryan are those that are getting trolled by him wearing a crown. chill out guys he's a legit grappler and a young prospect.
 
trustdoesntrust said:
This year they beat Keenan, Yuri, Gilbert Burns, Rustam Chsiev, Bill Cooper, Mansher Khera, and drew with Tanquino and Toquino. Their only submission loss was after 45 minutes against Felipe Pena. Everybody at or below their level barely lasted a minute.
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All I would say and it may not even be your point is that Cornelius and Cooper is that Cornelius is very experienced in sub only grappling alongside points tournaments. And Cooper has always grappled as if points didn't exist (his style is actually very similar to Garry Tonon) and he usually lives and dies by that sword.

trustdoesntrust said:
But to the original point, their schtick is not "this is the best style of BJJ for MMA," its more "this is no bullshit what's effective about BJJ." Not saying I agree, but it's certainly eye-opening that once you take away the points, the gi, and the leglock restrictions these highest level world champs aren't as dominant as they seemed.
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I think that gets overlooked a lot with them. Maybe they don't state it all the time but I would even say it's as specific as "this is what is effective when the only goal is simply submit the other person when we are not wearing gis and when we can have as much as time as possible to work."
 
trustdoesntrust said:
Any time you see pro wrestling antics get attention, it's because the antics hit some core taboo or unspoken conflict within the given culture. For DDS, it's that they are irreverant to many norms of BJJ, such as traditional ideas of positional dominance, stoic behavioral codes, open tournaments as ultimate arbiters of skill, wearing the gi, etc. Just as significantly, they are loud East Coast white guys with a Kiwi coach, instead of quiet, team-first students with an old school Brazilian grandmaster.
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Fixed it for you. Get it right next time.
 
mataleaos said:
I think that gets overlooked a lot with them. Maybe they don't state it all the time but I would even say it's as specific as "this is what is effective when the only goal is simply submit the other person when we are not wearing gis and when we can have as much as time as possible to work."
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Exactly. Regardless of what you think about their antics, this is a good challenge for the sport in general. It would be one thing if these guys were getting constantly dominated positionally, but they hold their own in that phase as well.
 
trustdoesntrust said:
BJJ culture highly values humility and respect, and has an entrenched patriarchal system telling us who to respect; it's not just that the DDS guys are generally obnoxious, it's that they target their obnoxiousness toward the pillars of the culture.
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Didn't Helio Gracie sleep with other men's wives and impregnate some?
 
mataleaos said:
I think that gets overlooked a lot with them. Maybe they don't state it all the time but I would even say it's as specific as "this is what is effective when the only goal is simply submit the other person when we are not wearing gis and when we can have as much as time as possible to work."
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That's a good way of putting it. The issue I have is that being bottom in side control may not be very bad in a sub-only format, but it sure sucks if strikes are allowed. So while I like sub-only tournaments and certainly applaud the DDS for moving the leg-lock game forward, I think we have to remember that getting your guard passed is actually bad in MMA or a real fight.

That said, it isn't like the leg-lock game *can't* work in MMA. But in MMA it is high-risk, high-reward whereas in sub-only grappling it is low-risk, high-reward.
 
Jhf884 said:
That's a good way of putting it. The issue I have is that being bottom in side control may not be very bad in a sub-only format, but it sure sucks if strikes are allowed. So while I like sub-only tournaments and certainly applaud the DDS for moving the leg-lock game forward, I think we have to remember that getting your guard passed is actually bad in MMA or a real fight.

That said, it isn't like the leg-lock game *can't* work in MMA. But in MMA it is high-risk, high-reward whereas in sub-only grappling it is low-risk, high-reward.
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Exactly.

And context is often missed if people just watch matches. For example Jeff Glover often talks about how he likes bottom side control in matches and he has cool setups there for kneebars, heel hooks, darces, guillotines, inverted triangles, back takes, and other reversals to get him back on top.

People see him do that stuff in sub only matches but they aren't there during class or sparring where he will fight balls to the wall to come up on a single if his guard starts to get passed, and they don't think about the times he encourages students to immediately fight to get back on top for a reversal or a quick re-guard and sweep if their guard is passed. Or they miss the times where he says sub-only isn't the end all be all and you have to have jiu-jitsu that can work in sport and fighting for real.

It's my experience that most grapplers with a style of being okay with conceding position still are great at a conventional game also and make sure that their students can play a conventional game as well.

There's a time and place for everything right?
 
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