Gordon Ryan subbed by Felipe Pena

randomg1t said:
when i say he defends until they gas, i don't mean that he literally clams up and does nothing. but he does conserve a lot of energy only defending, while the other guy is trying his best to submit him. since there are no points, he can sit back and not worry about getting passed a gazillion times. he did it against keenan, he did it against pena. of course he goes for stuff, but the top guys handle it just fine when they aren't dead tired. see, you will again try to spin this as a knock on the kid, when it really isn't. the rules state he can do this, and he excels under those rules. what i'm saying is he (and fucking danaher) acts like winning under those rules is the only true measure of skill, when it really isn't.
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If you count the # of submission attempts that Gordon has vs his opponents I would be very surprised if any are ahead of him.

Some may pass his guard or show some positional control, it's normally not for long at all and a lot of time it's off a failed sub attempt.

Positional control, specifically the kind I've seen Gordon put under where he recovers very quickly, can definitely be argued as far as its effectiveness outside points tournament. If people were dominating position like little Cobrinha did to Nicky Ryan that'd be different, I haven't seen anything close to that from Gordon. I like the IBJJF ruleset but I've heard Danaher say that submission is something we can all agree on. I have my preferance but I can certainly see Danaher's logic and Gordon's matches that I've seen are a great example.


randomg1t said:
i mentioned tournaments, because it's how anyone can make a name for themselves in BJJ. you want buchecha, rodolfo, marcelo's top 3 so bad? enter any of the tournaments they compete in and kick their ass. that's what people normally do. hell, that's how these very top guys built their names, by entering tournaments and mopping the floor with the previous champions. they didn't put on a plastic crown and challenge them in an instagram post, then bitched about being avoided when matches aren't agreed upon..
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Gordon isn't eligable for IBJJF tournaments since he got promoted too quickly. He competed in several other organizations in 2016. Alot of the guys you mention compete in IBJJF almost exclusively, which he can't.
 
Gordon did get submitted, but I am still a fan. He has a style of Jiu Jitsu where is he constantly going for the finish. And Pena showed how truly good he is at Jiu Jitsu. It doesn't mean Gordon sucks. It means Pena is really fucking good.
 
NoGiRonin said:
Gordon did get submitted, but I am still a fan. He has a style of Jiu Jitsu where is he constantly going for the finish. And Pena showed how truly good he is at Jiu Jitsu. It doesn't mean Gordon sucks. It means Pena is really fucking good.
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What other style could you have if you only do submission only tournaments?
 
randomg1t said:
you seriously think those are the reasons people dislike them?

josh barnett is very respected in the entire bjj community and he doesn't value position over everything else, is not even remotely stoic, only entered a handful of tournaments, never wears a gi and was trained by erik paulson. and he beat some bjj legends. stop trying to turn this into some weird discrimination, because it's clear as day that it isn't the case here.

they are disliked because they act like douchebags. well, ryan and danaher do, cummings is pretty tame as far as i can tell. but ryan will call people out under his very specific ruleset, while wearing a plastic crown and glasses. under his ruleset, his game largely depends on him defending until his opponent slows down and then snatching up a leg - which is fine, he is very good at that, but to act as if that's the ultimate measure of skill is ridiculous. he claims he's the best out there and that everyone should face him, yet he refuses to seek out his opponents in tournaments like any other up-and-comer. he behaves as if he is the name that everyone should fight, but he isn't. what would you think of me if i started bitching about buchecha refusing to fight me, when i'm clearly the best motherfucker on sherdog? you would ridicule me, and rightfully so. and there's a video out there of him behaving like an absolute prick when rolling with someone obviously way beneath his level. he's just a fucking douche.

i have not seen anyone criticize them for their skill or work ethic. in fact, people largely look up to them in those regards. it's their behavior that irks people, not their deviance from bjj tradition.
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Yeah, they're pro wrestling-style heels, shamelessly flaunting bjj cultural norms like any good heel would. That's why you call them douchebags, because their behavior is anathema to what you think should be normal BJJ athlete behavior. Right or wrong, they embody many taboos about the sport, mainly that you can act cocky and alpha without deference to the traditional Brazilian-centric modes of credibility.
 
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NSchoke said:
Was it this one? This is from his opponents youtube page and he calls it a Super Fight. From his description and his comments under the video I think he knew he was at a competition. If this is the one this guys no victim, just came up short that day.
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Yea it's that one, I was watching the show live and Gordon has tba as an opponent, the kid has juat competed before also... If that kid wants to call it a superfight, it's probably because he wants an ego push.
 
trustdoesntrust said:
Yeah, they're pro wrestling-style heels, shamelessly flaunting bjj cultural norms like any good heel would. That's why you call them douchebags, because their behavior is anathema to what you think should be normal BJJ athlete behavior. Right or wrong, they embody many taboos about the sport, mainly that you can act cocky and alpha without deference to the traditional Brazilian-centric modes of credibility.
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"Don't be a narcissistic dickhead" is a pretty consistent norm across all cultures, dude. They aren't doing this as a means of social commentary, they are doing it to make money. That's the good part for them about what they do. It's bizarre that people try to protect them from the bad (i.e. man, these guys are douches). If they know what they are doing, they know what comes with the behavior.
 
trustdoesntrust said:
Yeah, they're pro wrestling-style heels, shamelessly flaunting bjj cultural norms like any good heel would. That's why you call them douchebags, because their behavior is anathema to what you think should be normal BJJ athlete behavior. Right or wrong, they embody many taboos about the sport, mainly that you can act cocky and alpha without deference to the traditional Brazilian-centric modes of credibility.
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no, i call them douchebags because they act like douchebags. you could erase every single thing i know about bjj and then show me these guys and i'd call them douchebags.

it's because they're pretentious and narcissistic. not because they don't wear the gi and pray to helio. i don't give two shits about bjj culture, i just don't like assholes.
 
Kantian_relativist said:
"Don't be a narcissistic dickhead" is a pretty consistent norm across all cultures, dude. They aren't doing this as a means of social commentary, they are doing it to make money. That's the good part for them about what they do. It's bizarre that people try to protect them from the bad (i.e. man, these guys are douches). If they know what they are doing, they know what comes with the behavior.
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Of course it is, that's why pro wrestling villains almost always practice some variation of loud narcissism, no matter the venue. The ones that really resonate, however, are the ones who play their arrogance off some strong taboo or insecurity in the cultural norm. For DDS, their schtick is directed right at the sport vs. street vs. MMA schism. Their burgeoning success, and the attitude they carry from it, exposes some uncomfortable rifts about how we define the best BJJ athlete (not to mention the bushido code of martial artist behavior). They also bring to light a long-nagging issue about why many top BJJ guys have struggled to translate their style to MMA.
 
randomg1t said:
no, i call them douchebags because they act like douchebags. you could erase every single thing i know about bjj and then show me these guys and i'd call them douchebags.

it's because they're pretentious and narcissistic. not because they don't wear the gi and pray to helio. i don't give two shits about bjj culture, i just don't like assholes.
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Yes, but what are they doing that makes you and others call them douchebags? It's not their clothes or their hair
 
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trustdoesntrust said:
Yes, but what are they doing that makes you and many others call them douchebags? It's not their clothes or their hair
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No it's definitely not their clothes or their hair.

gordon-ryan-gary-tonon-staffan-chyzak-10th-planet.jpg
 
I think is kinda obvious... i for instance dislike every humanbeeing that are arogant, disrespectfull, cocky and constantly trash talking.... is it gordon or tonon sonnen or mcgregor, cristiano ronaldo , my neighbor or some tv celeb.... and when something bad happens to them i feel like univers balanced things out and maybe they will learn from it.
I dont give a shit if you doing it to promote yourself or make more money... if you take that road then something wrong with you, there is better and honorable ways to do that. There is no need to proclame yourself best no gi grappler on the planet... especialy when you cant back it up agaist top level competition if you will prove it you will get money or publicity you desired.
 
trustdoesntrust said:
They also bring to light a long-nagging issue about why many top BJJ guys have struggled to translate their style to MMA.
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because their style has been awesomely translated to MMA? who by?

trustdoesntrust said:
Yes, but what are they doing that makes you and others call them douchebags? It's not their clothes or their hair
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i've explained it several times already. the crown and glasses, the obnoxious social media callout under very specific rules, the 10 page facebook essays on their every move, humiliating opponents when there's no need for it... do i need to go on? any one of those is enough to be branded an asshole.

you keep trying to spin this as if it isn't generally annoying, but only rubs us wrong because we're caught up in some bjj culture and hate everyone who deviates from it. that's just not the case.
 
randomg1t said:
because their style has been awesomely translated to MMA? who by?



i've explained it several times already. the crown and glasses, the obnoxious social media callout under very specific rules, the 10 page facebook essays on their every move, humiliating opponents when there's no need for it... do i need to go on? any one of those is enough to be branded an asshole.

you keep trying to spin this as if it isn't generally annoying, but only rubs us wrong because we're caught up in some bjj culture and hate everyone who deviates from it. that's just not the case.
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I would not mind the call outs and social media and the trash talking if they did it more cleverly. A lot of it seems low rent to me.

But Garry Tonon will always be one of my favorite grapplers to watch on the mats and Eddie Cummings seems fairly "away" from the rest. He;s come off pretentious before but I do think he generally comes off as a pretty likeable guy that would be cool to grab a beer with.
 
mataleaos said:
I would not mind the call outs and social media and the trash talking if they did it more cleverly. A lot of it seems low rent to me.

But Garry Tonon will always be one of my favorite grapplers to watch on the mats and Eddie Cummings seems fairly "away" from the rest. He;s come off pretentious before but I do think he generally comes off as a pretty likeable guy that would be cool to grab a beer with.
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cummings has always seemed pretty chill to me. he's aight as far as i'm concerned.

and tonon is exciting as all hell and actually seems like a pretty good dude, i think he gets on my nerves slightly because of how he acted on the bjj kumite, but that was a long time ago anyway.
 
randomg1t said:
cummings has always seemed pretty chill to me. he's aight as far as i'm concerned.

and tonon is exciting as all hell and actually seems like a pretty good dude, i think he gets on my nerves slightly because of how he acted on the bjj kumite, but that was a long time ago anyway.
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I meet tonon at adcc 2015, he's pretty cool...
 
If Gordon is a can, what does that make Keenan, the dog food?

Keep some perspective folks.
 
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