Gordon Ryan subbed by Felipe Pena

[BADodd06]

If Gordon is a can, what does that make Keenan, the dog food?

Keep some perspective folks.

Wait........who said Gordon is a can???

 

[Dana_is_your_GOD]

If Gordon is a can, what does that make Keenan, the dog food?

Keep some perspective folks.

After 1 hour 42 minutes I'd say fuck it too. Probably have to piss and hungry and bored.

 

[rmongler]

After 1 hour 42 minutes I'd say fuck it too. Probably have to piss and hungry and bored.

SUCH RACK OF DISIPRINE BRING DISHONEL TO FAMIRY.

 

[Jhf884]

Yeah, they're pro wrestling-style heels, shamelessly flaunting bjj cultural norms like any good heel would. That's why you call them douchebags, because their behavior is anathema to what you think should be normal BJJ athlete behavior. Right or wrong, they embody many taboos about the sport, mainly that you can act cocky and alpha without deference to the traditional Brazilian-centric modes of credibility.

Of course, it's entirely possible to be both a "pro wrestling-style heel" and a real-life douchebag. In fact, they kinda feed off each-other.

 

[Thaijitsu612]

You could be like Geo and stall for the entire match and wait for overtime rounds.

This again...Geo did not stall

 

[yetanother]

They also bring to light a long-nagging issue about why many top BJJ guys have struggled to translate their style to MMA.

How are they supposed to bring those issues to light?

In terms of MMA their skills seem to be useful but not enough to win against elite mma guys.
Not much different than how elite ibjjf/adcc champions do.

 

[leaf22]

It is but he outweighed him by 25lb+ Kim is a small guy.

By the sam token tho, Pena outweighs Gordon by a decent bit

 

[Dana_is_your_GOD]

By the sam token tho, Pena outweighs Gordon by a decent bit

10 lbs?

 

[kenetics]

By the sam token tho, Pena outweighs Gordon by a decent bit

Ya but gordon was calling him out and even Buchecha.. so i dont give him a pss on that.

 

[leaf22]

Somewhere between 5-25 lbs , same as terra an tonon. The point is tho that weight discrepancy wasn't the deciding factor in either of those two contests. It was skill UOTE"Dana_is_your_GOD, post: 125306689, member: 509065"]10 lbs?[/QUOTE]

 

[vcmmafan]

Somewhere between 5-25 lbs , same as terra an tonon. The point is tho that weight discrepancy wasn't the deciding factor in either of those two contests. It was skill UOTE"Dana_is_your_GOD, post: 125306689, member: 509065"]10 lbs?

I'm sure it had SOME impact. But I would agree that Pena is more skilled.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

How are they supposed to bring those issues to light?

In terms of MMA their skills seem to be useful but not enough to win against elite mma guys.
Not much different than how elite ibjjf/adcc champions do.

It's the suggestion that their concept of positioning and submission hunting is what's really effective in an absolute sense, and conversely that the IBJJF modes of point-scoring and gi-centric moves are not. That's a huge subtext to their trash talk-- "I'll beat anybody in a no time limit match even though I'm just some loudmouth from the east coast."

BJJ culture highly values humility and respect, and has an entrenched patriarchal system telling us who to respect; it's not just that the DDS guys are generally obnoxious, it's that they target their obnoxiousness toward the pillars of the culture.

 

[randomg1t]

It's the suggestion that their concept of positioning and submission hunting is what's really effective in an absolute sense, and conversely that the IBJJF modes of point-scoring and gi-centric moves are not.

if there is an environment in which the positional hierarchy is more important than a point-based BJJ competition, it's MMA.

and until one of DDS guys actually starts winning some high profile fights (or any fights, for that matter), calling their style truly effective for MMA seems kind of silly.

 

[Dana_is_your_GOD]

if there is an environment in which the positional hierarchy is more important than a point-based BJJ competition, it's MMA.

and until one of DDS guys actually starts winning some high profile fights (or any fights, for that matter), calling their style truly effective for MMA seems kind of silly.

Points are based on getting position.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

if there is an environment in which the positional hierarchy is more important than a point-based BJJ competition, it's MMA.

and until one of DDS guys actually starts winning some high profile fights (or any fights, for that matter), calling their style truly effective for MMA seems kind of silly.

This year they beat Keenan, Yuri, Gilbert Burns, Rustam Chsiev, Bill Cooper, Mansher Khera, and drew with Tanquino and Toquino. Their only submission loss was after 45 minutes against Felipe Pena. Everybody at or below their level barely lasted a minute.

But to the original point, their schtick is not "this is the best style of BJJ for MMA," its more "this is no bullshit what's effective about BJJ." Not saying I agree, but it's certainly eye-opening that once you take away the points, the gi, and the leglock restrictions these highest level world champs aren't as dominant as they seemed.

 

[yetanother]

Not saying I agree, but it's certainly eye-opening that once you take away the points, the gi, and the leglock restrictions these highest level world champs aren't as dominant as they seemed.

Adding the silly overtime rules helped a lot.
If the overtime was decided by for example arm wrestling I'm not sure Gordon would have beaten Rustam or Yuri.

Escaping the back is not a very important part of the high level jiu jitsu game so it's not reasonable for the world champs to be ultra dominant in it.

 

[yetanother]

I'm sure it had SOME impact. But I would agree that Pena is more skilled.

Pena is a lot better physically then Gordon.
He was still explosive after 40 minutes.
Pena also routinely overpowers heavier guys in a lot of his matches.

 

[trustdoesntrust]

Adding the silly overtime rules helped a lot.
If the overtime was decided by for example arm wrestling I'm not sure Gordon would have beaten Rustam or Yuri.

Escaping the back is not a very important part of the high level jiu jitsu game so it's not reasonable for the world champs to be ultra dominant in it.

It's been a while since I've seen those matches, but I recall Gordon controlling the regulation period against both of those opponents.

 

[randomg1t]

This year they beat Keenan, Yuri, Gilbert Burns, Rustam Chsiev, Bill Cooper, Mansher Khera, and drew with Tanquino and Toquino. Their only submission loss was after 45 minutes against Felipe Pena. Everybody at or below their level barely lasted a minute.

But to the original point, their schtick is not "this is the best style of BJJ for MMA," its more "this is no bullshit what's effective about BJJ." Not saying I agree, but it's certainly eye-opening that once you take away the points, the gi, and the leglock restrictions these highest level world champs aren't as dominant as they seemed.

well of course the world champs aren't as dominant as they seemed when you take them out of their ruleset. i imagine floyd gets blasted pretty quickly in mma. is that really eye-opening?

imagine ryan going against pena in the gi, under IBJJF. is he as dominant as he seemed before? no, he gets his shit pushed in. but, to be fair, we can go the other way as well. fewer restrictions, put ryan in an fight against maia or jacare. do you honestly believe he doesn't get murdered?

these guys are completely legit, and very skilled. i imagine ryan will be a huge name in submission grappling for a while. but everyone heavily implying that the current BJJ stars are beneath them because of their rulesets is pretentious. DDS are no less dependent on their ruleset than any other athlete, and their rules are just as arbitrary.

 

[yetanother]

can go the other way as well. fewer restrictions,

I have a feeling that going against Pena in mma wouldn't end up very well for Gordon Ryan.