Forget BJ, has Penn EVER fought anyone as good as Yair??

84percentcool said:
49-46 on whose card? Not the fucking judges.
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clearly not, thats why it was a robbery
5cjfvp.jpg
 
84percentcool said:
Ben won the first two rounds, hater.
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How am I a hater? You're purpose in this thread has been to discredit another fighter lol
Maybe he did, that was a bit closer but you can't argue that JLau won and I love that dude. Bj was robbed deal with it brah
 
El_Diazo said:
How is Frankie 'new breed when he had his first fight 4 years after Bj?
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The dude your responding to isn't very good at explaining his points. I see what he's getting at though, in that BJ Penn excelled at a time when well rounded meant that you could strike, get a take down and have ground work. Nowadays being well rounded means that you have a lot of knowledge of striking technique, footwork, and that in addition to your take downs and groundwork you actively know how to mix your striking and grappling to hide your true intentions.

BJ Penn couldn't really do that. He had good boxing for the time, good takedowns and a great top game, but he wasn't very good at mixing it all together in the way that boxer wrestlers do today. Frankie Edgar on the other hand was one of the first fighters to really mix those techniques, use his grappling to set up his striking and vice versa and work the legs with kicks. It was only really him, his training partner Eddie Alvarez and Fedor that did it that well.

And Frankie Edgar is still beating the top guys today even after all those years. So I do agree with the last guy that Edgar was one of a new breed of fighters. I do think that the evolution of MMA in that time span was faster than what he makes it out to be though.
 
SkillsPayTheBills said:
Ive always wanted Yari vs Choi

Choi has great timing and went far with just that alone, but the Swanson fight showed how poor his actual boxing fundamentals are

Head always on the center, poor defensive responsibility when exiting

Choi was simply a fighter who was great at timing opponents coming in with the right straight

All it took for Swanson to neautralize his timing was fients - and level changes into come up hooks.

Swanson would fient and then back Choi up against the fence with hooks - then flurry while Choi had his back stuck to the fence

All this talk of Choi being like Conor

LOL

Conor has legit elite pro level boxing, countering and footwork

Choi couldnt even display amaturish boxing

Conor is someone who wouldve counter fucked you coming in, circled off the fence, or tied you up on his terms to stiffle and then work you over in-tight with body shots and or elbows

Again, Choi was only ever about timing you stepping in...and simple fients disrupted all that for him...and then he would allow himself to get pressed against the fence with hooks and then stay on the fence and eat flurries

I was seriously shocked to see how AMATURE Choi was after all the hype he was getting "the next Conor"


Choi still needs to be fighting the top 10 and developing...let alone is even fit to hold Conor's month old jack strap. Conor is the greatest boxing based defensive counter puncher in MMA history

But yeah, I want to see Yari vs Choi just to see where Choi is really at...

because as we just went over - Choi is someone who wants to time an opponent coming in...and Yari has such an off beat rhythm that he could completely neutralize Choi's timing just by being himself...and then you have all the kicks of Yari etc

I think Yari would smoke Choi, but I would like to see it as a prospect vs prospect fight - and to see if Choi can improve and become more then what he is right now

Choi would have to dig deep to adjust because Yari is a terrible match up for him (hard to time/great at commanding kicking rage etc)

Neither Choi or Yari are even 5% as great as Conor though

Im very high on Yari..and feel strongly that Yari is the future of 145...but lets stop the BS...Conor is on another galaxtic level to everyone in MMA

Every time someone wins a fight "bu bu hes on Conor's level"

No

Yari is still a fantastic prospect though...and Yari is FAR FAR BETTER THEN CHOI

I cant wait to see Yari continue to develop. The kid has all kinds of amazing potential
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If you're very high on"Yari", at least learn how to spell his name correctly
 
TS, just out of curiosity, what new moves or techniques did Yair use that indicate an evolution of the sport? Several people on this thread are totally convinced and certain that the sport has evolved. I'm dying to know what's new.

Prominence and incorporation of BJJ, Muay Thai, wrestling, Sambo, etc.. all indicated an evolution. What was Yair's secret ingredient?

Maybe it was a new training technique. If so, what was it?

Or was it just youth vs old age?
 
Evenflow80 said:
Forget all the BJ nut hugging... just LOOK at Yair. Who the hell has BJ fought and defeated in his career who is athletic, explosive , skilled, and deadly as Yair ?

Who ? Pulver? Stevenson? Sherk? Sanchez?

Give me a break. It's like BJ fanboys can't accept the fact that BJ was great for his time when fighters often had full time jobs and MMA gyms where no were near as refined as the fighter labs that exist now.

Put another way : can you honestly say with a straight face even a 100% prime BJ Penn could have done ANYTHING against a modern fine tuned deadly fighter like Yair ?

I wish people would take off thier rose tinted glasses and accept the fact BJ was never as great as people make him out to be. He's been surpassed multiple times over by a plethora of fighters.

GSP is a great example of a fighter who evolved with the times and had the skill and ability to keep up with the current landscape. BJ Penn never had the skills to compete with today's breed of fighter. He just never did. He was just at the right place at the right time
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And? a newer gen will come along and make Yair look silly etc etc etc

BJ won a title in two different divisions, hes a FW that beat the best WW at the time for the belt.

Yair can only wish to achieve those heights
 
YeahNo said:
TS, just out of curiosity, what new moves or techniques did Yair use that indicate an evolution of the sport? Several people on this thread are totally convinced and certain that the sport has evolved. I'm dying to know what's new.

Prominence and incorporation of BJJ, Muay Thai, wrestling, Sambo, etc.. all indicated an evolution. What was Yair's secret ingredient?

Maybe it was a new training technique. If so, what was it?

Or was it just youth vs old age?
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Stop with the age excuse for BJ

Blame BJ's lack of discipline and laziness for NEVER improving

Age is NOT an excuse. Look at Bisping

At the heart of this, IS BJ's own faults...yet BJ's excuse making fans never wanted to appoint any acountability to BJ...thats why BJ never improved...always surrounded by yes man...you guys would rather place blame else where then on your god BJ...but maybe if BJ actually felt some criticism from his fans HE WOULDVE taken shit serious and improved to not dissapoint so much
 
SkillsPayTheBills said:
Stop with the age excuse for BJ

Blame BJ's lack of discipline and laziness for NEVER improving

Age is NOT an excuse. Look at Bisping

At the heart of this, IS BJ's own faults...yet BJ's excuse making fans never wanted to appoint any acountability to BJ...thats why BJ never improved...always surrounded by yes man...you guys would rather place blame else where then on your god BJ...but maybe if BJ actually felt some criticism from his fans HE WOULDVE taken shit serious and improved to not dissapoint so much
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Sooooooo, no thoughts on evolution?
 
Evenflow80 said:
Forget all the BJ nut hugging... just LOOK at Yair. Who the hell has BJ fought and defeated in his career who is athletic, explosive , skilled, and deadly as Yair ?

Who ? Pulver? Stevenson? Sherk? Sanchez?

Give me a break. It's like BJ fanboys can't accept the fact that BJ was great for his time when fighters often had full time jobs and MMA gyms where no were near as refined as the fighter labs that exist now.

Put another way : can you honestly say with a straight face even a 100% prime BJ Penn could have done ANYTHING against a modern fine tuned deadly fighter like Yair ?

I wish people would take off thier rose tinted glasses and accept the fact BJ was never as great as people make him out to be. He's been surpassed multiple times over by a plethora of fighters.

GSP is a great example of a fighter who evolved with the times and had the skill and ability to keep up with the current landscape. BJ Penn never had the skills to compete with today's breed of fighter. He just never did. He was just at the right place at the right time
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Because Yair Rodriguez is such a well-rounded fighter, like he's one of a kind, right?

The kid has amazing potential, and I actually agree that Penn might have never been able to beat Yair, who knows, styles make fights.

But for you to say BJ Penn never fought anyone as good as Yair is blasphemous.

Gomi at the time when they fought was an absolute beast.

Lyoto fucking Machida bro!? Really, you that half asleep at the wheel here?

Georges St. Pierre twice!?

Nick Diaz!?!?!?!?

Rory MacDonald!?

You don't think Frankie could wrestle the fuck out of Yair???

Come on son.
 
YeahNo said:
Sooooooo, no thoughts on evolution?
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I dont believe in evolution

Techniques that worked ages ago still work today

Its time tested for a reason

You are clearly missing the point

BJ COULDVE STILL BEEN A TOP fighter today

It was BJ's refusal to take training serious and refusal to improve

I love all the blaming on age instead
 
No need to be negative towards Penn. Yair looks like a really promising contender.
 
Why even make these ridiculous threads. Give BJ respect for even thinking about stepping back into the octagon. Dude is shop worn, hasnt fought in 3 years and hasnt had a win in 6. Yes, dude was great when he was motivated and was the only guy now fighting at fw who fought a guy(machida) who weighed 225 at one point in his career. You cant descredit the things he accomplished, and all you flavour of the month kids who watch mma these days .....lets see what yair accomplishes, or where he will be in say 3-4 years from now. But in another few months there will be someone else for you guys to worship no doubt.
 
GordoBarraBJJ said:
Huh,

GSP 2x
Huges 3x
Sanchez
Sherk
Lyoto
Diaz
Edgar 3x
Florian
Joe Daddy
Gomi

Yair's best win against a live body is Bruce Leeroy and he looked marginal in that fight. Beating up an old, slow, stuck in the mud fighter is not a gage of where he is at.

Time for him to take on some Lions and not a sitting duck - Stephens would be a good next fight then either Lamas or Mendes then Edgar - then maybe we can start talking title shot.

Any young fast fighter would have done the same to the Penn that was in the cage tonight.
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Not to forget Rory. Which makes the list even more insane and OP's point even more retarded.
 
SkillsPayTheBills said:
I dont believe in evolution

Techniques that worked ages ago still work today

Its time tested for a reason

You are clearly missing the point

BJ COULDVE STILL BEEN A TOP fighter today

It was BJ's refusal to take training serious and refusal to improve

I love all the blaming on age instead
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I'm not missing the point, I just have little interest in the point you're trying to make. Could BJ be awesome today? Possibly. It's impossible to know how it feels to live in his body. It could be apathy or it could be accumulated injury. He just looked slow out there. Hard to know if that's lack of training, the wrong training, or he's just slowed down.
 
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