Fedor should have found a way to fight in the UFC.

[Candy Routure]

Fans always want to blame SOMEONE in the situation between Fedor and the UFC.

Sometimes, you can make sincere offers and simply can't come to an agreement because your needs are so different.

That was basically the case with Fedor and the UFC. Neither side needed the other, and they simply had incompatible needs.

That said, the only major HWs in and around his era that he didn't fight were Randy, Mir, and Barnett, and he nearly fought Barnett. That's not too bad, considering most of his career the talent was split among multiple organizations.

Too much logic and simplicity, dude. Sherdoggers wont accept it.

 

[777R]

Also Fedor magically lost almost 20 pounds of muscle once he started fighting in America("I looove amerricaaaa!" - Shogun Rua)

He knew the drug testing was even more strict in the UFC. You knew!(watergate)

Very interesting indeed.

 

[Readybodisready]

Two issues really...

1.When Fedor was still ontop of the sport the UFC was not the centre of the HW division, he was fighting guys like Sylvia, Arlovski, Barnett, Werdum, Bigfoot, etc. It was really only when he lost his spot at the top and the UFC bought SF that their HW division became the place to fight if you were #1.

2.Fedor signed with M-1 in 2007 long before any big UFC contracts were being talked about, you look at what guys like Crocop, Nog, Shogun and Wanderlei got from the UFC and yeah it wasn't peanuts but still it wasn't anything like as much as Fedor earnt. Him and M-1 realised the value of not being under UFC control as orgs like Afflcition and SF who wanted credibility would pay a lot for his services. Most importantly as well his M-1 deal was garneted, it couldn't just be torn up like the majority of UFC contracts after a loss can be(see Werdum post JDS loss) so obviously well suited to someone on his retirement run.

So really the whole situation in 2009 didn't involve Fedor much, it was M-1 and the UFC looking for a deal but not finding one and working with Coker instead. Fedor was basically being subcontracted out to US orgs by Vadim, his actual earnings were mostly coming from M-1.

M-1 didn't pay him shit that's why he came out of retirement and is still forced to fight again.

Fedor could have taken his beatings in the UFC in a couple of big fights with PPV points, no doubt he would have made millions and he could have retired off of that instead of taking beatings in SF for scraps after M-1 took their cuts.

One day he will regret this..every day.

 

[moreorless87]

Also Fedor magically lost almost 20 pounds of muscle once he started fighting in America("I looove amerricaaaa!" - Shogun Rua)

He knew the drug testing was even more strict in the UFC. You knew!(watergate)

Actually though he started losing muscle well before that, you look at the Crocop fight in 2005 and he's definitely smaller than the Nog fight in 2003. When he moved from Russian Top Team to Red Devil he cut out most of his weight training didn't he?

 

[moreorless87]

M-1 didn't pay him shit that's why he came out of retirement and is still forced to fight again.

Fedor could have taken his beatings in the UFC in a couple of big fights with PPV points, no doubt he would have made millions and he could have retired off of that instead of taking beatings in SF for scraps after M-1 took their cuts.

One day he will regret this..every day.

The contract was $1.5 million signing bonus then $2 million per fight if he'd won the last fight and $1 million if he hadn't plus $5 million if he fought the UFC champ, that was all garneted too not something M-1 count easily back out of.

So yeah Fedor was getting paid, getting paid much better than the likes of Wanderlei, Nog, Crocop, etc who signed with the UFC. Zuffa's tactic in 2007 seemed to be to play on the idea they were the only real option with Fedor/Vadim being the ones who realised that other new orgs would actually be looking to pay large amounts for a massive name who was a free agnent. Guys like Sylvia and ARlovski for example got there biggest ever payday from Affliction, in Tim's case I believe bigger than his entire UFC career combined.

 

[VAfan]

lol @ 'found a way'.

they laid out the red carpet for him. fedor ducked the ufc.

 

[777R]

M-1 didn't pay him shit that's why he came out of retirement and is still forced to fight again.

Fedor could have taken his beatings in the UFC in a couple of big fights with PPV points, no doubt he would have made millions and he could have retired off of that instead of taking beatings in SF for scraps after M-1 took their cuts.

One day he will regret this..every day.

This is exactly what I was thinking. This sport is to corrosive to take chump change beatings on your way out on a regular bass with no real upside.

Even one UFC fight could have made him the promotions brand ambassador to Eastern Europe for years to come. Commentator for the region...something to maintain cash flow.

With all his combat sambo, he should be doing Metamoris or something with cash and less damage due to strikes.

 

[Halifax]

Yeah, I remembered that wrong. It seemed off when I typed it and went back to check and was just waiting for the shitstorm.

I respect that you at least own up to that. A lot of people here would just try to backtrack their words and you did not, so kudos.

In any case, there is a very "What have you done for me lately" mentality to fighter rankings. The truth is time catches everyone, every undefeated streak, every person. It catches some faster than others.

I watched from the very beginning till now and every era had guys who looked unstoppable until they were stopped. MMA has evolved faster than any other sport specifically because of the advanced training, analytical and videotape capability of the modern age speeding its evolution. Entrenched sports had a slow evolution.

Matt Hughes and BJ Penn looked like the fighters of their generation(And in ways, they were), but if you take their records from age 30 onward. BJ is 1-7-1 and Hughes from age 32 is 4-6-0.

It just happens. Some guys lose it earlier than others. Some guys continually adapt. In Hockey, Ray Bourque was runner up for Norris trophy best defensiveman in his rookie year in 1979-80 and runner up for Norris best defenseman in his retirement year of 2000-2001. But the vast majority of Hockey players go downhill hard around age 30 and have seen their best scoring years at ages 23-27. That's sports.

In the end, if you look at the rosters during Fedor's run(Or Wanderlei's, etc), it blatantly obvious that the large purses Pride was awarding had attracted the bulk of top MMA talent and everyone back then knew it.

Was it as deep as it is now? Of course not.

But It is revisionist history to try to play Pride down as a bunch of hacks when the UFC was literally in a worse situation regarding talent.

 

[MitMcl]

The only reason Fedor didn't fight in the UFC is because he didn't want to.

 

[Shaddows]

Seems the endless Fedor greatness threads could have easily been given greater credibility if Fedor had found a way to fight in the UFC.

Everyone that beat him fought in the UFC.

Should have been easy money with his list of victims.

Would have made a fortune ppv's, merchandise, interviews etc.

Despite all the reasons he did not find a way to fight in the UFC... at some point it would only make the MOST sense to fight in the UFC.

Does anyone else think Fedor should have found some way to fight in the UFC to cement his legacy?

I think anyone that thinks Fedor's legacy depended on fighting in the UFC is a dumbass or an UFC Shill (I do not mean to be harsh, but this is how I feel).

It is a very poor excuse to pin his legacy and what he did as if UFC is the only thing that matters.

Especially for someone who was a decade unbeaten, and has beaten more UFC champions than almost every other fighter in the planet.

Fedor is what he is for what he did before UFC was even a thing.

Blame the UFC for not making a proposal that Fedor would accept.

They should have accepted ANY term HE wanted to get him there.

They thought their name was bigger than him. They were wrong and should have known better.

 

[Readybodisready]

Actually though he started losing muscle well before that, you look at the Crocop fight in 2005 and he's definitely smaller than the Nog fight in 2003. When he moved from Russian Top Team to Red Devil he cut out most of his weight training didn't he?

LOL "cut out weight training". He was a massive nearly 240 pounds against several opponents in 2004. Cro Cop was small and fast, Fedor wouldn't need to cycle for size like he did against Coleman and others. The correlation of his loss of traps, capped delts etc. started significantly when he first started fighting in the US in 06.

 

[hedidhisownstunts]

He was offered multiple deals that he refused. It's not like he didn't have a way to fight in the UFC, he chose not to. No matter, his career was pretty much over by that point anyway.

 

[777R]

I think anyone that thinks Fedor's legacy depended on fighting in the UFC is a dumbass or an UFC Shill (I do not mean to be harsh, but this is how I feel).

It is a very poor excuse to pin his legacy and what he did as if UFC is the only thing that matters.

Especially for someone who was a decade unbeaten, and has beaten more UFC champions than almost every other fighter in the planet.

Fedor is what he is for what he did before UFC was even a thing.

Blame the UFC for not making a proposal that Fedor would accept.

They should have accepted ANY term HE wanted to get him there.

They thought their name was bigger than him. They were wrong and should have known better.

I didn't think that Fedor's legacy depended on him fighting in he UFC, it just would put it on a firmer ground. Seemed like easy money.

 

[Readybodisready]

The contract was $1.5 million signing bonus then $2 million per fight if he'd won the last fight and $1 million if he hadn't plus $5 million dollars if he fought the UFC champ, that was all garneted too not something M-1 count easily back out of.

So yeah Fedor was getting paid, getting paid much better than the likes of Wanderlei, Nog, Crocop, etc who signed with the UFC. Zuffa's tactic in 2007 seemed to be to play on the idea they were the only real option with Fedor/Vadim being the ones who realised that other new orgs would actually be looking to pay large amounts for a massive name who was a free agnent. Guys like Sylvia and ARlovski for example got there biggest ever payday from Affliction, in Tim's case I believe bigger than his entire UFC career combined.

In other words the UFC would have paid FEDOR himself(not the M-1 leeches sucking him dryer than his fanboys do) millions upon millions of dollars and given him tremendous earning potential in the years to come just for fighting for the UFC HW title, and imagine if he had won the title too.

In other words Fedor could have been rich and comfortable, retired by his mid 30s if he joined the UFC like every other Pride star did. Not like now getting put into a hospital by cans because he still needs money fighting in his 40s. M-1 sure took care of him.

 

[moreorless87]

LOL "cut out weight training". He was a massive nearly 240 pounds against several opponents in 2004. Cro Cop was small and fast, Fedor wouldn't need to cycle for size like he did against Coleman and others. The correlation of his loss of traps, capped delts etc. started significantly when he first started fighting in the US in 06.

If that was the case wouldn't you have expected him to bulk up just afterwards when he fought Hunt, Lindland and Choi outside of the US? the size dropoff to me seemed like it was pretty consistant from around 2005 onwards and I didn't just pull the weight training stuff out of thin air, I believe it was mentioned by either Fedor or Red Devil previously.

 

[TSO]

I respect that you at least own up to that. A lot of people here would just try to backtrack their words and you did not, so kudos.

In any case, there is a very "What have you done for me lately" mentality to fighter rankings. The truth is time catches everyone, every undefeated streak, every person. It catches some faster than others.

I watched from the very beginning till now and every era had guys who looked unstoppable until they were stopped. MMA has evolved faster than any other sport specifically because of the advanced training, analytical and videotape capability of the modern age speeding its evolution. Entrenched sports had a slow evolution.

Matt Hughes and BJ Penn looked like the fighters of their generation(And in ways, they were), but if you take their records from age 30 onward. BJ is 1-7-1 and Hughes from age 32 is 4-6-0.

It just happens. Some guys lose it earlier than others. Some guys continually adapt. In Hockey, Ray Bourque was runner up for Norris trophy best defensiveman in his rookie year in 1979-80 and runner up for Norris best defenseman in his retirement year of 2000-2001. But the vast majority of Hockey players go downhill hard around age 30 and have seen their best scoring years at ages 23-27. That's sports.

In the end, if you look at the rosters during Fedor's run(Or Wanderlei's, etc), it blatantly obvious that the large purses Pride was awarding had attracted the bulk of top MMA talent and everyone back then knew it.

Was it as deep as it is now? Of course not.

But It is revisionist history to try to play Pride down as a bunch of hacks when the UFC was literally in a worse situation regarding talent.

Thanks, and I agree with most of what you said but in regards to Fedor he didn't lose to new age talent, or guys who hadn't matured yet when he was in his prime. He lost to older, smaller, and more battle weary guys the instant he left the safe haven of Japan.

 

[777R]

He was offered multiple deals that he refused. It's not like he didn't have a way to fight in the UFC, he chose not to. No matter, his career was pretty much over by that point anyway.

Sure, that's true, just thought he could have financially benefited in so many ways with even one fight win or lose. Now so many question marks and asterisks.

 

[Kumason]

Seems the endless Fedor greatness threads could have easily been given greater credibility if Fedor had found a way to fight in the UFC.

Everyone that beat him fought in the UFC.

Should have been easy money with his list of victims.

Would have made a fortune ppv's, merchandise, interviews etc.

Despite all the reasons he did not find a way to fight in the UFC... at some point it would only make the MOST sense to fight in the UFC.I do blame Fedor for not having nuts and telling his manager he was fighting in the UFC no matter what.

Does anyone else think Fedor should have found some way to fight in the UFC to cement his legacy?

Unfortunately he just listened to his manager and his manager wanted nothing less than co-promotion and obviously that wasn't going to happen.

 

[hedidhisownstunts]

Sure, that's true, just thought he could have financially benefited in so many ways with even one fight win or lose. Now so many question marks and asterisks.

He had a great career up until recently. The only fight we really lost out on was a Couture match in their primes.
Velasquez and the new guard thereafter are really big athletic cross trained dudes. It would have probly been a lot of ugly losses for a declining fedor.

 

[tenniswhiz]

He was from a bygone era of MMA. He ruled his era with an iron fist. His time has passed. He was, is, and always will be, my favorite fighter to ever compete. I don't have any problems with him never fighting in the UFC.

WAR THE LAST EMPEROR!!!

Especially because he faced the best HW of his time, and was the best.

And for the morons out there, be advised that Werdum and Hendo were in Pride with Fedor, losing to opponents FAR below Fedor's level.

By the way, BJ Penn just lost to Denis Siver.