Fedor fans and Jones haters reduced to claiming steroid use disqualifies one from GOAT status.

[DeathByCaranos]

Did you even read the post or just comment, I went over all why this isn't true.

Indeed I did but your but you're opening post doesn't mention why Jon has low T and uses estrogen blockers. You didn't equate any of the science as to why he would be in that state. This is from SteroidAbuse.com:

"For the anabolic steroid users ones testosterone levels are of great importance. When we supplement with anabolic steroids our natural testosterone production is suppressed, even when we supplement with the anabolic steroid testosterone itself our natural production is diminished. How far our levels drop will be dependent on several factors; certain steroids suppress to a greater degree than others but regardless of the steroid(s) you’re using your natural testosterone levels are not going to be at an optimal level. For this reason among several others most performance enhancers will supplement with testosterone; for most it is the foundation of any cycle and in many cases often the only steroid used if only one steroid is going to be used. It should be fairly obvious as to why testosterone supplementation is so important; you’re using anabolic steroids, you’re no longer producing adequate levels of testosterone and to keep your testosterone levels at a proper rate and most likely to bring them to a level beyond standard you must have exogenous amounts of the hormone in place."

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. OJ wasn't convicted of murder but how many people do you know that think he didn't murder his wife.You Lance Armstrong example doesn't hold up.

 

[BringBackTRTforFairness]

Indeed I did but your but you're opening post doesn't mention why Jon has low T and uses estrogen blockers. You didn't equate any of the science as to why he would be in that state. This is from SteroidAbuse.com:

"For the anabolic steroid users ones testosterone levels are of great importance. When we supplement with anabolic steroids our natural testosterone production is suppressed, even when we supplement with the anabolic steroid testosterone itself our natural production is diminished. How far our levels drop will be dependent on several factors; certain steroids suppress to a greater degree than others but regardless of the steroid(s) you’re using your natural testosterone levels are not going to be at an optimal level. For this reason among several others most performance enhancers will supplement with testosterone; for most it is the foundation of any cycle and in many cases often the only steroid used if only one steroid is going to be used. It should be fairly obvious as to why testosterone supplementation is so important; you’re using anabolic steroids, you’re no longer producing adequate levels of testosterone and to keep your testosterone levels at a proper rate and most likely to bring them to a level beyond standard you must have exogenous amounts of the hormone in place."

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. OJ wasn't convicted of murder but how many people do you know that think he didn't murder his wife.You Lance Armstrong example doesn't hold up.

ONCE A CHEAT ALWAYS A CHEAT BECAUSE THERES NO OTHER WAY FOR THEM ONCE THEVE BORKED THEIR NATURAL LEVELS?

HOW UNFORGIVING IS IT?

 

[TrueFightFan]

We all know Jones is the undisputed GOAT of the sport and because the haters can't point to flaws in his record so they try to point to the so-called fact that he used steroids but let's look at the facts.

The Lance Armstrong gambit
One method the haters will use in an attempt to discredit Jones is what I call the Lance Armstrong gambit. The argument goes something like this:

"Lance Armstrong was busted for roids and his legacy is tainted, so that means Jones' legacy is tainted as well."

However, the fact is Jones did NOT test positive for steroids he tested positive for estrogen blockers. So does testing positive for estrogen blockers disqualify someone from GOAT status or is it steroids. If it's steroids then the haters need a new talking point because Jones didn't test positive for steroids.

To add to that if one does even a bit of research they'd realize that many of the top riders in the Tour de France were later busted themselves or admitted to using steroids after the fact.

GSP and Fedor were clean
First, GSP. GSP has never tested positive for steroids but that steroid gut didn't just appear recently, and no GSP wasn't just exhaling. GSP has a clean cut appearance but let's not get things confused he's EXTREMELY SUSPECT AT BEST.

To add to that, GSP trains with Greg Jackson and Jon Jones and if you're claiming Jones is a roid cheat what about all of his buddies he trains with, what about Greg Jackson?

Moving on to Fedor. Fedor fought in Pride where there was NO, and I repeat NO steroid testing whatsoever. It was a complete free-for-all.

To add to that PRIDE was run by the Yakuza and when the UFC bought PRIDE they found out that all of their contracts were illegal and got royally screwed over. Hendo (who used TRT legally) said that PRIDE had no steroid testing and that all but a few of the fighters would be banned if they did. Videos time stamped.





So we're supposed to believe Fedor was clean all through PRIDE with no roid testing? Fedor took on all of these suspect roid users but cried for emergency steroid testing when Ubereem was walking around, yet in all his years in PRIDE he never ONCE asked for steroid testing. I wonder why.

It really is weird how some of these PRIDE fighters got "old" overnight.

A few have posted that it is hard to be unbiased when debating about a favorite fighter of your era... You have
Successfully eliminated yourself from this debate with your constant use of the word "haters". It, pretty much, tells us what era you are from and, of course, LeBron is better than Jordan and One Direction is way better than the Rolling Stones. I like that you put a lot of effort into your post but you should have evaluated your thoughts fairly before posting.

 

[ostlerrage]

This sport like most is riddled with PED usage.

Some get caught some dont.

All we can do is go by the evidence.

Estrogen blockers for Jones + super low T levels -= obvious cheat to all thos ethat ar enot r tarded. This also means he is likely cheating now to beat Cormier etc because you cant just get your T levels back to normal after doing PEDS for a while, and without at least normal T levels you cant compete in MMA at the highest level

Fedor NOTHING

The kettle bell Fedor is just Fedor with a pump he never looked like that in his prime in pride when he fought, he looks the same now as he always has with very minor muscle loss due to ageing, same with Nog




JONE JONES = CHEATER = LEGACY AND ACHIEVEMENTS DONT COUNT FOR ANYTHING DUE TO THIS

FEDOR = GOAT, BEAT UP LOADS OF PED USERS WO USING HIMSELF, NOT TO MENTION BEATING UP MANY UFC CHAMPS, OTHER TALENTS, AND PEOPLE MUCH LARGER THAN HIMSELF

JON JONES IS A STEROID USING CAN A SUPER CAN IF YOU LIKE

jones is a cheater. only the blind jones pube chewers deny this.

 

[SnowBlynd]

OP - Says people unfairly criticize jones for steroids, immediately begins to shit on gsp for roids.

 

[Irishwhiskey119]

PED's are great. Should be legal.

They don't make anyone a better fighter either.

It's all bullshit as i've seen roid users get whipped by clean guys plenty of times.

 

[knspiracy]

I couldn't give a fuck about PED's

 

[Repsac]

PED's are great. Should be legal.

They don't make anyone a better fighter either.

It's all bullshit as i've seen roid users get whipped by clean guys plenty of times.

Then why are they great? If they don't offer any advantage or improvement, why are they great?

 

[Irishwhiskey119]

Then why are they great? If they don't offer any advantage or improvement, why are they great?

Because they help fighters recover quicker.

 

[Repsac]

Because they help fighters recover quicker.

Or they make fighters overtrain and get injured.

 

[MMonk]

A few points to consider:
1. I see older people, older than 40 even, walking around with six-packs although they don't look like 20-year-olds facially. Usually they are people who train year-round at the gym and outdoors (jogging). Older triathletes, joggers, and rock climbers have no problem with having six-packs because they are usually concerned with their nutrition as well as training really hard. Fedor was documented for training damn hard.
2. I'm as big a Fedor fan as anyone, but his "Olympic" drug testing falls under suspicion when you consider headlines in recent years regarding Russia and the State-run Olympic doping scandal which has tarnished its image in international athletics.

On your second point.

Olympics have been always instrument of politics.

Are you sure, these scandals are clean and not another move to discredit Russia and it's sport achievements?

 

[Irishwhiskey119]

Or they make fighters overtrain and get injured.

No, over training is a decision fighter's make.

They can stop at anytime and has nothing to do with PED's.

 

[aichokyu]

It is a valid argument. Jones did fail a test, fedor didn't, while having quite a few fight in america, including sucessfull ones, defeating former UFC champs.

 

[L.T.]

Or they make fighters overtrain and get injured.

Steroids give fighters lightning fast recovery times while preventing and healing injuries. Cmon man ... seriously?

 

[Pem123]

I agree with the statement that if you going to discredit Jones for testing positive for estrogen blocker, you can't claim that Fedor is not discredit as well, he fought in pride where testing is almost non existent.

but lets not bring GSP into this, he is tested throughout his career and there is no evidence that he is ever use any banned substance.

GSP looking like that proves nothing, he is going to MW and is getting older now.

 

[Pem123]

It is a valid argument. Jones did fail a test, fedor didn't, while having quite a few fight in america, including sucessfull ones, defeating former UFC champs.

you can only use that excuse if you get tested.

even if the drug testing is not perfect, if a fighter is never caught the burden of proof is on the accuser to prove that a certain fighters was cheating.

but if you fought in organization that specifically said they do not test for performance enhancing drugs, than its the whole different story.

 

[aichokyu]

you can only use that excuse if you get tested.

even if the drug testing is not perfect, if a fighter is never caught the burden of proof is on the accuser to prove that a certain fighters was cheating.

but if you fought in organization that specifically said they do not test for performance enhancing drugs, than its the whole different story.

it's not an excuse, I just stated facts.

also Fedor was tested in the US fights I mentionned, so your whole attempt at having a point fails like JJ did in the abovementionned test.

 

[TheAmericanGazelle]

They don't make anyone a better fighter either.

It's all bullshit as i've seen roid users get whipped by clean guys plenty of times.

Yes, they do. That's why fighters take risks and use them.

They obviously aren't a magic solution that overcomes all other variables, but all else being equal, a fighter taking PEDs will beat a fighter not taking PEDs.

 

[TheAmericanGazelle]

Why do people keep banging on about fighters in Pride taking PEDs?

The issue isn't taking PEDs per se, it's gaining an unfair advantage (i.e.- taking them while banned and other fighters are presumably not using them).

If PEDs are legal, it's impossible to cheat through PEDs.

 

[Steve-French]

The whole Goat conversation is debatable, but I think Jon Jones is the best talent we've seen in the sport thus far.