Explain the liberal thought process on Illegal Aliens

[HunterSdVa29]

Does that mean no one else will ?

if they did, there wouldn't be a need for immigrant workers in the agriculture fields, manual labor, etc....

americans are largely 'too good' in their own eyes to do those jobs, and certainly for that pay.

 

[original doom]

if they did, there wouldn't be a need for immigrant workers in the agriculture fields, manual labor, etc....

americans are largely 'too good' in their own eyes to do those jobs, and certainly for that pay.

I think that is utter bollocks. If there are no illegals who do you think would do the work ?

That class of people who turn noses up at certain jobs or subscribe to the belief that the locals wont do the job are not the people who would be doing those jobs anyway.

Its called money. If you deport all your illegals and actually paid a decent wage then those jobs will get done. Maybe not fruit picking though.

 

[Rod1]

I think that is utter bollocks. If there are no illegals who do you think would do the work ?

That class of people who turn noses up at certain jobs or subscribe to the belief that the locals wont do the job are not the people who would be doing those jobs anyway.

Its called money. If you deport all your illegals and actually paid a decent wage then those jobs will get done. Maybe not fruit picking though.

1.- A lot of times, nobody, the economy would just shrink,

2.- Whats a decent wage for low-skill manual-labor on the fields?

 

[Rod1]

The best solution would be for government and the private industry to work together, find possible labor shortages and then work with foreign governments in order to supply that temporary wage shortage temporarily, that way you avoid the worst societal impacts of immigration while you reap the economic benefits.

 

[JonnyRingo84]

I don't understand why they think illegal aliens shouldn't be deported. Why is anyone that wants to do that evil and racist?

If I went on vacation to Japan and decided to just live there forever, shouldn't Japan deport me after I overstay my 3 month tourist visa? I don't think that makes Japan evil or racist. Do you? Why?

do you mean actively pursuing the goal of deporting all illegal aliens, or just deporting the ones that we run across? the latter, is a reasonable position that id support. but in general, theres the issue of possibly splitting families up. should a person who was brought here when they were 3 be deported? there truly are some jobs that americans wont do.

 

[original doom]

1.- A lot of times, nobody, the economy would just shrink,

2.- Whats a decent wage for low-skill manual-labor on the fields?

The economy would not just shrink. infact paying the lads a decent wage sees thay money pumped straight back into the economy...or so you think paying mexicans shit money will float the american economy.

This is why liberals are scum. Its just turbocharged classism. People will do those jobs if the pay is fair and they arent in competition with the citizens of failed states.

 

[Fugazy]

Yes, you got me.

When I said "all undocumented immigrants pay into property taxes," I should have said "all undocumented immigrants of the legal age that is required of all residents pay into property taxes and taken as a given in all discussions of demographics and ethnic groups" so as to preclude some dolt thinking he'll flex his semantical genius.

You dont have to be a dick.

I'm not flexing "semantical genius", you just don't have to paint illegals in some shining light that doesn't exist. You were trying to make a point about what illegals contribute to our society, try not to throw blatantly untrue bullshut stats out there.

That's the larger point here.

Anyhoo, we've all probably known groups of illegals in our lives at some point.

I've known, through work and as personal acquaintances dozens and dozens of illegals, mostly Mexicans and Guatemalans. I've also known a good amount of illegal Russians and Eastern Europeans. About 15 years in a trade will do that, plus I'm latino and have lived in the majority latino parts of my city for 75% of my life, just as I do now.

If there is one thing nearly all illegal latinos will do, it is game the system to keep as much of their money away from Uncle Sam as possible. And the ones who are citizens will often times help them in this effort. It is a way of life for thousands of people in many cities, and even a point of pride and bragging for many of them.

I don't know why so many people pretend this isn't the case.

But again, no reason to be a dick. Or to frame illegals in some glowing white light that doesn't exist. Many of them contribute nothing at all to the economy outside of the labor they provide, and the money they don't send abroad and spend here. But even with the money they keep here, if we stay within the latino community, a lot of it will go to latino businesses or will will move around as cash in untaxed transactions for some time. It's no secret that minority communities tend to prefer spending money in their "own" communities and businesses when possible.

And of course, many of the illegals in the US are great people who work hard and mind their business.

Don't try to glean too much from my post other than you should try to be a little more accurate in your posts.

And don't be a bitch when someone points out your bullshit.

 

[Rod1]

The economy would not just shrink. infact paying the lads a decent wage sees thay money pumped straight back into the economy...or so you think paying mexicans shit money will float the american economy.

You do realize that money on itself hold no value right?

For your argument to be true then it would need to be proven that an illegal is stealing a job, which means that the inclusion of illegals increases the unemployment of the regular population. Which at this point is doubtful considering the low unemployment in general and specially the low unemployment of states filled with illegals.

For your argument to be true, someone who is currently out of a job would need to fill those positions, which most likely wont under the current economy.

Even in Georgia when it passed its anti-immigration law which had like 10%+ unemployment it saw crops being wasted on the fields, people just didnt showed up to pick up the crops.


You can make the argument that illegal immigration in particular generates a bunch of societal costs that arent worth the economic advantages, but you cant claim that illegal immigration is a big economic burden, its cheap, grown, qualified (for the task) labor, its the closest thing to importing slaves from Africa.

 

[Cuzcatlan]

That's messed up.

I honestly do not have any moral or political qualms with employing undocumented workers so long as you're paying them minimum wage and their payroll and income taxes are getting reported and paid to the government. But that's exploitative of both the workers and the market.

Well sadly the majority of the time it's under the table.

 

[Trotsky]

Well sadly the majority of the time it's under the table.

Incorrect, although an understandable misconception

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-03-01/study-undocumented-immigrants-pay-billions-in-taxes
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallm...grants-actually-pay-infographic/#3b7bef3d1de0

70-75% pay income tax. Apparently the majority of those persons do so using an individual taxpayer identification number, which I am not familiar with at all.

 

[original doom]

You do realize that money on itself hold no value right?

For your argument to be true then it would need to be proven that an illegal is stealing a job, which means that the inclusion of illegals increases the unemployment of the regular population. Which at this point is doubtful considering the low unemployment in general and specially the low unemployment of states filled with illegals.

For your argument to be true, someone who is currently out of a job would need to fill those positions, which most likely wont under the current economy.

Even in Georgia when it passed its anti-immigration law which had like 10%+ unemployment it saw crops being wasted on the fields, people just didnt showed up to pick up the crops.


You can make the argument that illegal immigration in particular generates a bunch of societal costs that arent worth the economic advantages, but you cant claim that illegal immigration is a big economic burden, its cheap, grown, qualified (for the task) labor, its the closest thing to importing slaves from Africa.

So why not just offer seasonal visas for agriculture workers. Its only the class above that benefits from cheap labour.

Has any region in america actually benefitted from illegal immigration ?

 

[Trotsky]

The economy would not just shrink. infact paying the lads a decent wage sees thay money pumped straight back into the economy...or so you think paying mexicans shit money will float the american economy.

This is why liberals are scum. Its just turbocharged classism. People will do those jobs if the pay is fair and they arent in competition with the citizens of failed states.

You don't seem to understand how markets work. Not all industries have endless profit margins that employers and new start ups will keep cutting into until honkies finally take the job. Yes, not all, but a significant part of the economy would certainly shrink as employers realize its no longer profitable.

 

[original doom]

You don't seem to understand how markets work. Not all industries have endless profit margins that employers and new start ups will keep cutting into until honkies finally take the job. Yes, not all, but a significant part of the economy would certainly shrink as employers realize its no longer profitable.

Oh please. I come from a country where maccas pay rate would offend americans, yet they still thrive.

 

[Rod1]

So why not just offer seasonal visas for agriculture workers.

Ask Republicans about it, they are the ones that are blocking immigration reform.

Has any region in america actually benefitted from illegal immigration ?

I wouldnt know, but i think it depends more on individuals than regions.

There are always going to be winners and losers as with all public policies.

 

[hillelslovak87]

I consider myself a liberal, and I think that the government should either make them citizens, and thus require them to pay taxes on a rate that is the same as everyone else, or they should be deported.

 

[Ice That Jaw]

Maybe you should read more carefully and respond less emotionally.

I guess I can try to explain again. The position that you're asking for an explanation of is not actually held by liberals (and, really, you should know that, as it is rather ridiculous) so no liberal will be able to explain the thought process that leads to it.

If you want a serious discussion and to really understand liberal thinking on the issue, you should make an effort to represent the liberal position accurately.

Lol, no. It does not work that way. You can't shrug this off as 'no real liberal believes this'. Not unless you accept the very same 'no real conservative wants to meddle in the middle east'.

 

[m52nickerson]

No dude.

I was commenting on a post that said 100% of illegals pay property tax and sales tax which literally cannot be true.

Before a certain age children don't shop or have property in their name.

After a certain age some elderly give up their land and houses to family members, and some portion of those people were never land or home owners. Some will just be "kept" by family members who will do their shopping, etc for them. That's actually more common among immigrants then born & bred Americans, those people tend to look after their elderly family and neighbors much more closely.

I also said that some people of every group fail to pay property taxes. That would include some illegals.

So without a doubt the claims made by @Trotsky that I am asserting are false, are in fact false.

And as far as children under 16 having property put into their name... that's an entirely different bowl of worms.

Okay, well as far as illegals if they buy anything they pay sales tax. So he is pretty much right. Same with property tax, if they own property they pay the tax. You are just splitting hairs with the argument regarding children.

 

[Mark Hunts FIST]

In 2013 there were 1.4 million immigrants working in the US on a work visa.. ranging from picking fruit in fields to developing software. let's not act like people still can't come over on work visas.
Increase the number of WV if your concern is Americans not taking these type of jobs.

 

[Fugazy]

Okay, well as far as illegals if they buy anything they pay sales tax. So he is pretty much right. Same with property tax, if they own property they pay the tax. You are just splitting hairs with the argument regarding children.

You are not correct.

Sales taxes enforced by sellers, of course, but in the other instances its not 100% for any population. You simply can't dispute that.

Also, why are you his bag boy?

 

[m52nickerson]

You are not correct.

Sales taxes enforced by sellers, of course, but in the other instances its not 100% for any population. You simply can't dispute that.

Also, why are you his bag boy?

As I said, you are splitting hairs. 100% of any illegal that buys something pays sales tax. It does not take much to understand what he meant. He made a good point and you are just trying to counter it with a super narrow definition that makes little sense.