Evil Genius - Netflix Documentary

[faustian]

Why are these idiots being called "geniuses" and "masterminds"

Their whole plot was dumb as hell. As if there was any chance the guy wouldn't get apprehended before they could retrieve the money. And he predictably only walked out with $8k lmao wtf did they think would happen

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Why are these idiots being called "geniuses" and "masterminds"

Their whole plot was dumb as hell. As if there was any chance the guy wouldn't get apprehended before they could retrieve the money. And he predictably only walked out with $8k lmao wtf did they think would happen

Two of them got away with murder.
The lady would have gotten away with 3 if it wasn't for those nosey kids.
but yeah, that haul was laughable.

 

[That209]

Why are these idiots being called "geniuses" and "masterminds"

Their whole plot was dumb as hell. As if there was any chance the guy wouldn't get apprehended before they could retrieve the money. And he predictably only walked out with $8k lmao wtf did they think would happen

Newsflash - it’s not that hard to rob a bank. Wells might had gotten away if he didn’t go to the fucking McDonald’s across the street.

 

[faustian]

Newsflash - it’s not that hard to rob a bank. Wells might had gotten away if he didn’t go to the fucking McDonald’s across the street.

Yeah it worked out great. Awesome plan

 

[Deleted member 220895]

I'm never delivering food after after watching this. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

When 2 sociopaths collide, they create the perfect storm.

 

[HereticBD]

Newsflash - it’s not that hard to rob a bank. Wells might had gotten away if he didn’t go to the fucking McDonald’s across the street.

Pretty sure Wells was never meant to get away with it. I think it was a calculated murder, with the robbery just being a point of confusion for the victim, and authorities. I think the fat dude who made the bomb, played them all.

I think Wells might have been on the spectrum of mental retardation, and they took advantage of him.

 

[Jim Cozad Jr.]

Why are these idiots being called "geniuses" and "masterminds"

Their whole plot was dumb as hell. As if there was any chance the guy wouldn't get apprehended before they could retrieve the money. And he predictably only walked out with $8k lmao wtf did they think would happen

Yeah, they said how highly intelligent they all were like 50 times, and I just kept thinking I guess they're highly intelligent mentally ill fuck ups who lived in squalor...if they really thought that they were going to walk away with a sizable amount of money with that plan, then I would replace "geniuses" with "retards"...

 

[That209]

Pretty sure Wells was never meant to get away with it. I think it was a calculated murder, with the robbery just being a point of confusion for the victim, and authorities. I think the fat dude who made the bomb, played them all.

I think Wells might have been on the spectrum of mental retardation, and they took advantage of him.

A lot of people are thinking Rothstein simply just wanted to kill someone. It could be true. He apparently had a superiority complex and one cop believes he wanted to show he’s smarter than everyone. He ‘helped’ the cops, FBI, ATF or whomever with the case, but really he just wanted to fly as close to the sun as possible. He likely did want 250k still though since that’s what he put his house up for originally.

He likely did know he was dying soon so said fuck it and his real mission was to kill somebody in the most bizarre way and get away with it. The scavenger hunt is why the cops got Wells right away. When you rob a place, you’re supposed to get out of the area ASAP - not go to McDonald’s across the street like the notes said. Rothstein knew that because everybody does. So yeah, probably just wanted to kill someone and fuck over everybody else involved for his own satisfaction.

 

[evergreenrider]

Pretty sure Wells was never meant to get away with it. I think it was a calculated murder, with the robbery just being a point of confusion for the victim, and authorities. I think the fat dude who made the bomb, played them all.

I think Wells might have been on the spectrum of mental retardation, and they took advantage of him.

My thoughts exactly. He played the other 2 by making them think they would be getting cashed out from the robbery. Knowing all along the route was too long. I think he did all this knowing he was terminal and wanting to pin her with the murder.

 

[skaleton]

Binged 4 episodes the other night and am fairly puzzled. Not so much at how diabolical/evil these people were...but just that the documentary might be overselling how diavolical/evil these people were...because honestly between Diehl/Rothstein/Barnes/Wells/Stockton...they are all fucking idiots. collectively...such stupid people..


I'll preface, the whole show is really well made and constructed and all the interviews are really well done. still a 9/10 doc

but to the actual plotting of the crime.

I'm going to make the assumption that Rothstein/Diehl BOTH needed money, a lot of it. Diehl being the nutjob she is says "lets rob that piece of shit PNC bank, who is letting my father blow my inheritance!"

there is absolutely no convincing me that she came up with the actual robbery plot, the bomb collar, the shotgun cane, any of it. that was all 100% Rothstein, I almost believe her when she says Rothstein set her up and she's being framed, because honestly I believe she's too fucking stupid to have come up with anything besides the idea to rob a bank.

Every piece of interview, phone call, testimony from people who've dealt with her, all points that she's some manic nutjob who would go on tangents about absolute nothing and then give barely enough information so she could get what she wants.

I refuse to believe someone with the speech and grammar she uses, was smart enough to write up detailed, cohesive instructions to Brian Wells as a bomb victim on how to retrieve keys.


Everything in the doc indicates to me that Rothstein was the brains. He's known by local police (most serial killers/murderers involve themselves with police to see how close they can fly to the sun, so to speak). His phonecall and police interview are so fucking calm for a guy who's just cleaned a crime scene of all evidence, and then proceeded to hide the body carefully in the freezer of his own house...way too calm.


I think the doc is establishing that Diehl is some criminal mastermind to cover for the fact that Rothstein was so clearly the brains and mastermind behind the collar bomb plot, but the local police were basically letting him dictate the investigation and got away with literal murder (possibly more than once)


this all gets to my next point about Diehl/Rothstein and crew

If the plot was to rob a bank and make off with enough cash to cover Diehls hitjob on her father, Diehls owed money to Ken Barnes, Rothsteins $250k and all the other people in on the job....why use a live pipebomb? If Rothstein was THAT desparate for cash that he lists his house for the exact number the ransom wanted like weeks after the plot, why would he risk LOSING his investment by using a real pipe bomb?

Like lets say Wells gets $250,000 from the bank, cops dont get there in time and he drives away with the money straight to where he knew where the crew was waiting. boom, no death, no heat, Wells and everyone involved has an alibi they can use and the police have no clue where to look because there's no physical evidence on the collar itself. He can say he dropped the money off and the crazy black people handcuffed him and left him with the keys at the tower site or wtv, and boom everyone gets away scot-free.

But now, lets say Wells gets the $250,000 and there's no actual pipebomb, its a fake...police chalk it up as a scare tactic by criminals, Wells is off the hook, the crew is off the hook, and Diehl/Rothstein hack up Diehls ex and get away with two crimes. they just dont make out with any money.

Using an actual pipebomb could only be Rothsteins decision, and begs the question,.....why?

Thats the most diabolical part of the whole thing in my eyes...Rohtstein jeopardizes his own plot by using a real pipe bomb, almost to a point that he knew the plan would fail, real bomb or not, and just said, fuck it, I'm going to make every cop in this city look like a fucking idiot, and I'm going to even involve myself in the case and make sure other people go to jail for it...

like I'm sorry, after the entire Doc, I refuse to believe that Diehl was anything more than a manic-depressive hoarding nutjob who wanted nothing but money so she could kill her dad and get more money... I think Rothstein was her enabler and the real brains that helped her get away with murder so many times


lastly, wtf is wrong with Erie Pennsylvania?

I think he makes it real for two reasons. The power dynamic/god ability of life and death in his hands, and so that if Wells is captured there is a guarantee that he can’t slip up and tell the cops the real story. It seemed more to me like Wells was brought in on the plan after they had put the collar on him and from there he was happily complacent because he thought he’d get paid. I don’t think they had any faith in him as a secret keeper or accomplice.

In fact, it seems to me like no matter how smooth everything goes Wells has to die. If they don’t pay him he rats them out and if they do pay him it tips off the cops that he knows more than initially thought. Once the cops start threatening him with charges as the only one that is obviously implicated in the robbery the rest would become fearful of him flipping on them.

Whatever they fed him to make him so nonchalant during the robbery was just bullshit to make him do his part. There’s no way at least rothstein and Diehl didn’t know wells was destined to not make it out alive.

 

[AJ Garcia]

Does anyone think Wells wasn't involved at all?

AJ Garcia makes a good point, why hand Wells a working gun that he could have just used against them?

Why is Wells so calm at the bank? Grabbing a lollipop? That's such odd behavior. I can't imagine someone acting like that if they know a real bomb is strapped to their neck.

Well is also extremely calm while waiting for the bomb squad. At no point did I see him lose his cool.

But the most telling thing to me is him saying that a black guy strapped the bomb to him. Now they say that Marjorie told Wells to just say that it was a black guy that did this to him but why would Wells go along with that if he wasn't involved? I think Wells has to be involved but we will never know whether he knew if the bomb was real or not.

I think Rothstein had to have built the bomb on his own. He seemed like the only one handy enough to do it. I don't know what exactly goes into the explosive part of a pipe bomb but he had so much shit at his house that he could have built the entire mechanical and electrical mechanism to it without having to go to a store to buy anything specific.

I can only think of two realistic reasons for why he made a real bomb. One, he didn't trust Wells and if anyone was going down for it, it was going to be Wells. At that point, he would obviously implicate them to get himself a lighter sentence. Rothstein may have had the idea to get the money from him and then let the bomb kill him anyway to silence him. Then again he could have just used a fake bomb and then shot him if he got the money. The second reason would possibly be to destroy the evidence. If it was fake they possibly could have used forensics to tie the bomb back to him in some way.

Ya dude. I gave up trying to make sense of any of this case anymore lol awesome documentary but who knows what was really supposed to happen. None of it makes sense but was done in a way that the cops had no idea what was going on.

 

[Andersons Foot]

Another thing that got me thinking about wells involvement was if he wasn’t there by choice, I doubt they would’ve handed him a working shotgun. If they really forced him to put that on, he could’ve shot them with it and went straight to the cops and bomb squad, but he went right in and got a sucker like nothing was wrong.

Good point.

 

[iThrillhouse]

The more I think a out this case the more I think that the entire concocted plan makes zero sense. Even if it was a fake bomb, they’d all be implicated in the crime so fucking fast. There was 0% chance any of them were getting money from
the bank that day, so why endanger your freedom at all with this half brain fever dream of a heist that never in a million years would’ve worked

Diehl/Rothstein might have just been straight trolling

 

[Darkballs]

A lot of people are thinking Rothstein simply just wanted to kill someone. It could be true. He apparently had a superiority complex and one cop believes he wanted to show he’s smarter than everyone. He ‘helped’ the cops, FBI, ATF or whomever with the case, but really he just wanted to fly as close to the sun as possible. He likely did want 250k still though since that’s what he put his house up for originally.

He likely did know he was dying soon so said fuck it and his real mission was to kill somebody in the most bizarre way and get away with it. The scavenger hunt is why the cops got Wells right away. When you rob a place, you’re supposed to get out of the area ASAP - not go to McDonald’s across the street like the notes said. Rothstein knew that because everybody does. So yeah, probably just wanted to kill someone and fuck over everybody else involved for his own satisfaction.

The only thing I don't get though, is why would Rothstein call the police? I haven't followed the case outside what was in the documentary, but it sounds like these two weren't on anyones radar before he made that call. The guy in the freezer was dead before they pulled the robbery, so it wasn't that this was an unexpected complication that had him panic and run to the cops first. The only thing I could think was that him and his gf/whateverthefuck had some sort of falling out and he was worried that she would rat on him so he just moved to beat her to the punch.

 

[Darkballs]

My thoughts exactly. He played the other 2 by making them think they would be getting cashed out from the robbery. Knowing all along the route was too long. I think he did all this knowing he was terminal and wanting to pin her with the murder.

Another issue then would be, why was he waiting at one of his scavenger hunt checkpoints then? Assuming the cops recollection of a blue van was correct, and that blue van was being driven by Rothstein, why would he have show up at one of the checkpoints if he was certain that Wells would never make it?

 

[That209]

The only thing I don't get though, is why would Rothstein call the police? I haven't followed the case outside what was in the documentary, but it sounds like these two weren't on anyones radar before he made that call. The guy in the freezer was dead before they pulled the robbery, so it wasn't that this was an unexpected complication that had him panic and run to the cops first. The only thing I could think was that him and his gf/whateverthefuck had some sort of falling out and he was worried that she would rat on him so he just moved to beat her to the punch.

Marj probably threatened to pin it on Rothstein after the failed robbery. She wanted money and Rothstein was clearly supposed to make that happen as he was the true mastermind. She seems like he type of person to do a crime and blame it on someone else IMO. Who knows.

 

[MoparOrNoCar]

Marj probably threatened to pin it on Rothstein after the failed robbery. She wanted money and Rothstein was clearly supposed to make that happen as he was the true mastermind. She seems like he type of person to do a crime and blame it on someone else IMO. Who knows.

Yep or maybe they had some sort of dispute and he thought he may be next on the list as far as dead men in her life went so he decided to make the first move.

If anyone was smart, it was him. The guy was obviously in on the whole thing and the cops straight up cleared him of any wrongdoing before he died.

 

[blaseblah]

The police incompetence in this investigation pissed me off. Either they are really stupid or they intentionally withheld information from each other. Neither scenario is a good look. Solving the crime is more important than some petty grudge against the F.B.I.

 

[AtomicPanther]

I don’t understand why bill told the police about diehl in the first place. They’re all involved in this big murder that’s all over the news and then he goes and brings everyone’s attention to them when the cops had zero leads on the wells murder.

Just watched it. I think Rothstein was just a wacko (well, they all were), and it was a game to him. Why did BTK taunt the police years later? Who really understands how these people think.

My biggest takeaway was how inept the FBI, ATF and police were. As is common, I think their egos were the biggest hurdle. Everyone wanted to be in control of the case, and didn't want to share. It's like "I wanna be the hero who solves it, I'll keep my info to myself".

 

[Long Dark Blues]

Yeah, they were mad. I found it odd how the two highly intelligent people were hoarders though. That's a weird tick to have. It's so strange to be so smart, but have no regard for your living conditions.

Spoiler

Only thing I wasn't sure of was if the neck bomb guy was in on it, or not. The filmmaker feels that he was this innocent victim at the end, but I'm not so sure. He was obviously a pushover, and I believe the hooker when she says she suggested him to them for that reason, but the way he acted in the bank leads me to believe that he went along with it, thinking the bomb was fake. I think he was at the pre-plan meeting, and made sure he was the guy who got the call at the Pizza place. They talked about his boss getting the call, and not being able to understand the people on the other line, so he took it over and wrote down the directions. I think he knew it was them who was calling, and made sure he got the phone.

If I remember correctly, he was privy to the basic planning of it. But didnt realize it was a real bomb, and that he would be the one to wear it, until it was too late.