Elbow Guard - Golden Age Muay Thai

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by AndyMaBobs, Jun 6, 2018.

  1. AndyMaBobs

    AndyMaBobs Brown Belt

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    Saw this and thought it was worth sharing. Taught to Sylvie by Karhuat essentially using your elbows to block and stop punches as well as framing, flowing into elbow strikes and back into your standard guard.

    Its particularly effective for bare knuckle fighting like kard cheuk and lethwei and is great for Muay Thai. I don't think this would be great for MMA as it involves leaving a lot of body exposed for a takedown, although Conor McGregor has a similar move in which he has one elbow up.

    [​IMG]

    It is very interesting to see though as this technique is something that is very much Muay Thai. While you see old school boxers do it, it's certainly not as common in boxing today as it was in the 60s. Thought I'd share so that you guys could give it a try.

    Also check out Karuhat, he's the man.

     
  2. Silver tongue samurai

    Silver tongue samurai Ronin

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    I use this quite a bit in sparring and i find it pretty effective i usually have a pretty active guard and elbow blocking usually deters punching or you can use it to hide another movement. I saw it in an old bare knuckle boxing video and thought it would work well for mma. Love Sylvies videos
     
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  3. Sano

    Sano Black Belt

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    Sylvie makes so many excellent videos!
     
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  4. aerius

    aerius Black Belt

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    We actually see it a fair bit in MMA in the form of the "answer the phone" defence to the overhand right, though it's usually pretty static and doesn't flow anywhere.

    Many years ago, one of my friends showed me something similar where he'd bring his left arm up into the blocking position then load up on his own right elbow and decapitate the other guy. It was his go-to move in street fights where the first punch that pretty much everyone throws is the overhand right.
     
  5. ARIZE

    ARIZE Blue Belt

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    Nice subject... Gonna comment on it later, cause I use it a lot, but for the MMA part, I think Rampage Jackson used it, and i even think they talk about it at some point. But I'm pretty sure he didn't take it from MT, but maybe from those Kung-fu boxers? (52 blocks is it?)

    Edit: found the clip i had in mind.

     
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  6. AndyMaBobs

    AndyMaBobs Brown Belt

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    I must admit, I'm not convinced that the 52 blocks is anything more than a scam right now
     
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  7. ctrlaltdelete

    ctrlaltdelete Brown Belt

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    So on that clip of rampage ...

    there was a huge influx of questions regarding Straight Blast Gym's " crazy monkey " defense system that looked just like that. It was pretty much a high guard that you absorb / deflect punches on your forearm and elbows. Great for self defense and some boxing applications but leaves you open to mid kicks and shots to your body.

    Maybe older posters here will remember all those threads? It was an account or two ago.

    edit:
    http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/who-has-the-crazy-monkey-defense-championship-series-vol-1.593845/

    http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/for-those-of-you-who-use-the-crazy-monkey-defense.413032/
     
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  8. ARIZE

    ARIZE Blue Belt

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    I wont argue with you there... Never really made much research about it. (It's not MT, so what's the point) But he got that technique from somewhere, and I'm pretty sure it's not from MT.

    But i don't want to derail the subject from the elbow guard, would love to see a discussion about it.
     
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  9. Fire of Youth

    Fire of Youth Green Belt

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    This is a pretty dominant part of the Muay Chaiya defense. You show points and angles to your opponent whilst moving the holes in your guard around. It works even better if you drop your weight a little as the block comes up. Quite a few of the wrestling-brawler MMA fighters (e.g. Robbie Lawler, Chris Weidman, Jose Aldo) use it, though not as a staple defence.
     
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  10. Snubnoze707

    Snubnoze707 High Level

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    Same kinda shit as the Crazy Monkey defense that was popular like 5 or so years ago.

    I definitely like to use my elbows in defense though, among other defenses. Especially when my arms are sweaty, you create an angle for a glove to slide right up and over. Kind of works like a parry with added protection.
     
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  11. William Huggins

    William Huggins Green Belt

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    Crazy Monkey, oh the good old days, when moves still had animal names......
     
  12. AndyMaBobs

    AndyMaBobs Brown Belt

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    Best YouTube channel for Muay Thai IMO.

    I've been working on elbow guard and it does seem to fit very well with my love of knee and pressure fighting. What I like is that it naturally flows into a technique that I call the Rhino (See William, animal names aren't completely dead) where you keep your elbow high and guarding you, pointing out... and then charging in with it like a rhino. Works very safe. I like it.

    I really can't overstate how good the flow of it is. I've started teaching a long time friend of mine Muay Thai and his only background was a few professional wrestling classes a couple years ago, so very different - and at the moment, he sees Muay Thai as an art that's quite scrappy and hyper aggressive, by the virtue of their not being a safe distance, even clinching. It'll be interesting to show him this, because I think this guard almost feels more like you're doing some kind of wushu shit. It seems like it would be nonsense but it really works.
     
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  13. AndyMaBobs

    AndyMaBobs Brown Belt

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    Another variant
     
  14. ZOD66

    ZOD66 Purple Belt

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    Boxer with great uppercut will destroy you
     
  15. AndyMaBobs

    AndyMaBobs Brown Belt

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    lol no

    Great uppercuts are a minority in the sport of boxing. Also a boxer likely won't be able to get around the kicks of an experienced Thai Boxer. The whole point of the guard is that it flows through and into other guards, like this one which an uppercut can't get through:



    Besides an uppercut is supposed to come out straight at a slight upwards trajectory meaning in a lot of cases it would just end up hitting the elbow
     
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  16. Snubnoze707

    Snubnoze707 High Level

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    But how is said Boxer's kick, knee, and elbow defense?

    Also its a tool for blocking that is a reaction to straight shots. You can still use this along with other defensive tools.
     
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  17. AndyMaBobs

    AndyMaBobs Brown Belt

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    Seems that dude is from the heavies, so I dunno what sort of response we're gonna get.

    But yeah, exactly, a good boxer is supposed to be able to do just about anything but boxers don't have any crossover sport success without cross training - so I'm not entirely worried about whether something leaves me open to an uppercut from someone that can't get passed a teep
     
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  18. ARIZE

    ARIZE Blue Belt

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    For me, elbow block was kinda a natural thing. I believe one of the biggest disadvantage from the elbow block, is that you are slow to retaliate/counter with punches. But as Sylvie explains, it's a great tool to mix with elbows.
    I tend to have my elbow a bit sideways during the block, covering a bit more the jaws from a straight. I don't like to have it pointing straight out. A bit less chances to hit the fist with the pointy part, but safer.

    I was first taught to use the elbow block for high kicks, so that the glove completely covers the head almost to the back, so that the instep wont do damage behind it. But that move stuck with me for the hooks as well, even if no needed. The punch wont reach that back far. And then I started to use it for directs too. It blends very well with the high tight guard, and the long/half long guard that i usually use. When you use a high guard, moving to an elbow block is very fast, you don't even have to recognize the punch before starting the movement. You don't care if its a straight, hook or even a feint. You start your motion and you make the small adjustment on the fly.

    For punchers, it may not be the best type, but if you use elbows, and for clinching entries, it's very nice to flow from it.

    @AndyMaBobs

    For the second video, Muay Thai elbow counters to boxing tutorial, i really don't like this technique for 2 reasons.

    -The title of the video has the word boxing in it.
    -I really don't like the idea of using 2 hands to block 1 punch with the one hand making a swapping movement. If he feints the strike, your swapping hand will leave you badly exposed, probably even for a high kick. It's something i would definitely try to take advantage if my opponent use it like that. I don't know, it just doesn't feel safe for me.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2018
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  19. AndyMaBobs

    AndyMaBobs Brown Belt

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    I am not super fond of Cian Cowley's approach either, I think it's less secure and I find that in a situation like that, you're missing out on the opportunity to parry and return fire. So far, I'm finding that the sort of elbow guarding that Sylvie demonstrates, may actually be better for an advancing fighter than one who is fighting on the backfoot or more at range. It's worth mentioning that she is a clinch fighter and a lot of what she does is in an effort to aid that style. Not that she doesn't have good videos on other approaches, but still worth noting.
     
  20. ZOD66

    ZOD66 Purple Belt

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    Wrestling + boxing could win against this style fighting
     

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