EA Earns Most Downvoted Comment In Reddit History

[GtehMVP]

All you do is avoid my points and throw out insults. I doubt that'll change anytime soon.



If you're so concerned about the mental well being of gamers, why single out Shadow of War for its loot boxes and not the dozens of other game that have had loot boxes over the years? Why arent you complaining about Valve putting out limited edition seasonal loot boxes that can only be unlocked with a purchased key? Should loot boxes be illegal or something? IS this actually what you're saying?

As far as gamers with game addictions, maybe developers should just stop making games entirely, right? Otherwise they're just feeding into the psychosis of the mentally ill. So loot boxes alone arent the problem, the existence of games at all is the culprit. I've heard of gaming addictions. Never once heard of loot box addiction.

Businesses want you to buy their shit. It's up to you to not buy it.

Loot boxes (I'm referring to paid with real money versions) have been around for awhile, yes. I don't care about free games loading up with them, or using endless microtransactions to progress in the game at a reasonable rate. I also don't care about paid games using them, so long as they are for cosmetic reasons.

Lootboxes in games like Overwatch (cosmetic contents) are like crack to gambling addicts. It can be considered exploitative and become a legal issue, but there has to be some personal responsibility factored in here. Again, I have no issue with Overwatch's model, so long as you earn lootboxes with in game methods too, I believe you can there?

SWBF2 takes lootboxes to a whole other level. It's basically a free to play mobile strategy model in a fully paid game. Sure we can choose not to buy, but I think most people wanted to own and like it, as it has so much going for it outside the nefarious progression system. You really can't progress in the game by just playing it. It takes so long to earn anything, which is intentional because EA wants you to buy your way up via upgrades. Coupled with the fact that you'll be playing against people who have taken a short cut and you're left with an incredibly unbalanced game.

If no one said anything and EA's stock continued to skyrocket, practically every major publisher would have to consider taking the same path to please shareholders. That is not consumer friendly and is the biggest issues gamers have IMO.

 

[HereticBD]

EA now has learned the lesson to never interact with the community and never reveal your intentions, like Activision. That way everybody knows what they're gonna get but you never have that moment of outrage like this

Yeah, you have to wonder how this would've gone down, if EA didn't try to smooth everything out by clearly lying about their intentions, and essentially treating their customers like dumb rubes.

"No guys, fleecing you makes for a better experience. Trust us."

I would only hope, that even with the fixes they plan to do, that the damage is already done, and people stick to their guns and don't buy it. If you go out and buy the game now, EA won't learn a damn thing. They'll take a slight hit this time, and would've only learned what not to do when they inevitably try this shit again.

 

[fdswer]

I see both side of the argument.

Personally, I think people should vote with their wallets. EA is in the business of making money, and if people want to waste it on shit to get more content from a game, that's their prerogative. Much like it's EA's prerogative to have whatever business model they like provided not illegal.

Does it suck that richer people will have all sorts of advantages over poorer people in online play? Yes.

Welcome to life. Often video games are an escape from life, so I can see how this can take away from the enjoyment. Solution -- don't purchase / play games with the EA model. Keep your wallet shut.

The bigger picture though is that if EA gets away with the system they put into Battlefront 2 then more and more games will start to have actual progression and advantages tied into a paid RNG loot system. Sure you can unlock the content by playing but they are making it harder and harder to so you feel more and more tempted to buy.

 

[Bob Gray]

I do, and I did. You were mad about that.

The point is they are exploiting peoples addictions. There are degrees to everything. Don't act like taking up peoples time while also stripping people of their financial well being by directly harvesting their resources is the same as just taking up their time.

The point is not about legality... it's about my personal stance on the matter. My personal stance is quite simple and one I will continue to encourage others to undertake. I do not support game companies crossing the line into exploitation of their customers.

Lastly i was highly amused at the whole "never once heard of" comment. As if things aren't happening you aren't hearing about. So arrogant. Nothing could possibly exist you haven't heard about...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikka...g-about-loot-boxes-and-gambling/#1d04166f2a64

http://www.pcgamer.com/behind-the-addictive-psychology-and-seductive-art-of-loot-boxes/

http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/04/24/the-troubling-psychology-of-pay-to-loot-systems

https://kotaku.com/loot-boxes-are-designed-to-exploit-us-1819457592

It's not like another serious addiction people struggle with... you know... gambling. They really have nothing at all in common... seriously though... really they don't.

I literally have no idea how people can continue to quote me and apparently have no idea what I wrote.

Point out where I said loot boxes aren't addictive. But there's a difference between something being addictive, and someone being an addict. Diablo II was addictive and had no loot boxes.

Shit, WOW has destroyed marriages, lives and relationships. You know why? Because Blizzard has built mechanics of the game around psychological behaviors to get people to keep playing. For a minority of people, this can be life altering. So what do we do? Demand Blizzard and other devs stop designing addictive games? Do we stop Bethesda from developing Elder Scrolls games?

And that's the tip of the iceberg. Caffeine, sugar, alcohol, pornography, and a wealth of other things have addicts and have largely detrimental effects on people even in limited amounts. Areall of these things horrible? Should they be illegal? Are companies that make sugar evil? Is Starbucks a horrible company for peddling addictive, sugary drinks? Are you contributing to these evil corporate schemes if you eat a Twinkie?

Of course not because personal choice and responsibility exists. I love cheeseburgers, but I don't eat them every day. If some people eat them and other food more often than they should, then they have have a heart attack and die young, whos fault is that? According to the logic of this thread, it's Burger Kings fault for preying on the inclinations of the obese.

Shit, we live in a society that literally sells sticks of poison that cause cancer for people to inhale into their lungs. But loot boxes? That's what we complain about? Our society is overflowing with addictive shit we don't need. But loot boxes attracts your ire?

More than that, what exactly is your solution to this horrible loot box holocaust? I'd be interested to hear it, because most of the things I pointed out are more addictive and more dangerous if not lethal. So what standard of practice would you want to impose on loot boxes that shouldn't be put on alcohol or caffeine or cigarettes?

The blogs you posted don't contradict anything I said. One point they did make was about any real money systems in a game should entail an M rating. That's an interesting point and I'd have to ponder.

 

[Bob Gray]

So you are fine with people being taken advantage of then

It's not about wanting people to be taken advantage of, but acknowledging that people make their own choices in a society largely based around consumerism. All the companies want your money. You give your money to whomever you choose. If flashy lights and ringing bells is too much for you to resist I find it unlikely loot boxes contributed to your economic downfall as much as whatever issue you have.

In other words, if loot boxes "ruins your life" because of some gambling addiction then you have a problem and if it wasn't loot boxes that did it, it would have been something else.


The most effective thing you can do is vote with your wallet. That's exactly what happened to EA in this case and they immediately took notice.

 

[Thunderchild]

I literally have no idea how people can continue to quote me and apparently have no idea what I wrote.

Point out where I said loot boxes aren't addictive. But there's a difference between something being addictive, and someone being an addict. Diablo II was addictive and had no loot boxes.

Shit, WOW has destroyed marriages, lives and relationships. You know why? Because Blizzard has built mechanics of the game around psychological behaviors to get people to keep playing. For a minority of people, this can be life altering. So what do we do? Demand Blizzard and other devs stop designing addictive games? Do we stop Bethesda from developing Elder Scrolls games?

And that's the tip of the iceberg. Caffeine, sugar, alcohol, pornography, and a wealth of other things have addicts and have largely detrimental effects on people even in limited amounts. Areall of these things horrible? Should they be illegal? Are companies that make sugar evil? Is Starbucks a horrible company for peddling addictive, sugary drinks? Are you contributing to these evil corporate schemes if you eat a Twinkie?

Of course not because personal choice and responsibility exists. I love cheeseburgers, but I don't eat them every day. It some people eat them and other food more often than they should, then they have have a heart attack and die young. Who's fault is that? According to the logic of this thread, it's Burger Kings fault for preying on the inclinations of the obese.

Shit, we live in a society that literally sells sticks of poison that cause cancer for people to inhale into their lungs. But loot boxes? That's what we complain about? Our society is overflowing with addictive shit we don't need. But loot boxes attracts your ire?

More than that, what exactly is your solution to this horrible loot box holocaust? I'd be interested to hear it, because most of the things I pointed out are more addictive and more dangerous if not lethal. So what standard of practice would you want to impose on loot boxes that shouldn't be put on alcohol or caffeine or cigarettes?

The blogs you posted don't contradict anything I said. One point they did make was about any real money systems in a game should entail an M rating. That's an interesting point and I'd have to ponder.

Ah the ol' guns don't kill people, people kill people, argument. Rocket launchers should be freely available at Wal-mart. If someone blows people up, neither Walmart nor the weapons manufacture are at fault right?

Here's where that falls down for me with loot boxes: You can't really make cigarettes, cheeseburgers or firearms less bad for you. People for the most part know what they are getting into. Video games, on the other hand, can be developed without p2w gambling elements. It isn't necessary.

 

[fdswer]

It's not about wanting people to be taken advantage of, but acknowledging that people make their own choices in a society largely based around consumerism. All the companies want your money. You give your money to whomever you choose. If flashy lights and ringing bells is too much for you to resist I find it unlikely loot boxes contributed to your economic downfall as much as whatever issue you have.

In other words, if loot boxes "ruins your life" because of some gambling addiction then you have a problem and if it wasn't loot boxes that did it, it would have been something else.


The most effective thing you can do is vote with your wallet. That's exactly what happened to EA in this case and they immediately took notice.

But its the fact that companies like EA dont care and are even banking on the fact that they will hook those people and make shit loads of money off of them. And now they are literally taking a full price game and locking the progression behind a RNG paywall unless you play non stop, where does it end with this crap?

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

The bigger picture though is that if EA gets away with the system they put into Battlefront 2 then more and more games will start to have actual progression and advantages tied into a paid RNG loot system. Sure you can unlock the content by playing but they are making it harder and harder to so you feel more and more tempted to buy.

They will get away with it, if the consumers allow it.

Like a gucci bag or whatever bullshit designer that sells shit for $2,000. Yeah, it sucks for people that can't afford them, but if that's the most profitable price point for them, that's the most profitable price point system for them. Other manufacturers will either have to enter the market without the system to appeal to people priced out, or enough consumers will have to refuse to purchase the EA type system they use.

It's like whores at the strip joint, they are gonna sit on your lap to tempt you to get your money. Don't like it, don't go there / buy it.

 

[fdswer]

They will get away with it, if the consumers allow it.

Like a gucci bag or whatever bullshit designer that sells shit for $2,000. Yeah, it sucks for people that can't afford them, but if that's the most profitable price point for them, that's the most profitable price point system for them. Other manufacturers will either have to enter the market without the system to appeal to people priced out, or enough consumers will have to refuse to purchase the EA type system they use.

It's like whores at the strip joint, they are gonna sit on your lap to tempt you to get your money. Don't like it, don't go there / buy it.

Hopefully people wake up and stop supporting it or its going to get really bad, at least on PC you have way more options then console.

 

[bosox32]

Just don’t buy this shit

 

[Unknown Pleasures]

Hopefully people wake up and stop supporting it or its going to get really bad, at least on PC you have way more options then console.

Yeah, a few more headlines like things costing $2,100 to unlock everything ought to catch the eye of the press and gamers and hopefully have a revolt, but things will likely creep back in.

I threw up a little in my mouth hearing that $2,100 number. I mean, I was playing a bit of SF5 but then just got fed up with the amount of stupid shit to have to grind for stage backgrounds and costumes. I mean, you'd have to pay $200 just to get all the costumes and stages (not including cost of extra characters).

 

[fdswer]

Yeah, a few more headlines like things costing $2,100 to unlock everything ought to catch the eye of the press and gamers and hopefully have a revolt, but things will likely creep back in.

I threw up a little in my mouth hearing that $2,100 number. I mean, I was playing a bit of SF5 but then just got fed up with the amount of stupid shit to have to grind for stage backgrounds and costumes. I mean, you'd have to pay $200 just to get all the costumes and stages (not including cost of extra characters).

Yeah its a bit much, it just goes to show that the grind or pay system works when people use it as a defense that it gives you something to play for and if you dont you can just buy it. They dont realize that they are already being indoctrinated into the system and they cant enjoy the games with constantly being rewarded for it.

 

[Bob Gray]

Ah the ol' guns don't kill people, people kill people, argument. Rocket launchers should be freely available at Wal-mart. If someone blows people up, neither Walmart nor the weapons manufacture are at fault right?

Here's where that falls down for me with loot boxes: You can't really make cigarettes, cheeseburgers or firearms less bad for you. People for the most part know what they are getting into. Video games, on the other hand, can be developed without p2w gambling elements. It isn't necessary.

Rocket launchers? Stop, dude. The potential dangers of a goddamn rocket launcher far outweighs that of loot boxes and I can't believe I had to write this sentence just now.

You could absolutely make cheeseburgers healthier, but they'd be much less appealing.

As far as "necessary", like I said earlier, games arent necessary. You don't need them, you just enjoy them even if others don't and even if a minority think they're harmful you still play them, right?

For some people, a loot box gives them value that they decide is worth the cost. They don't need it any more than you need your video game but that doesn't mean they're any less entitled to spend their own money how they see fit.

 

[Bob Gray]

But its the fact that companies like EA dont care and are even banking on the fact that they will hook those people and make shit loads of money off of them. And now they are literally taking a full price game and locking the progression behind a RNG paywall unless you play non stop, where does it end with this crap?

Of course they're banking on it. You think valve was t banking on people buying a ton of keys? Or Blizzard rolling out "events" so people drop cash to try to get the new mercy skin?

But again, why single one company out? Neither EA nor Warner Brother invented loot boxes. Valve has had loot boxes for years and nobody gave a shit or said they were destroying lives. Overwatch has been out for awhile and the only thing people complained about was drop rates.

 

[Thunderchild]

Rocket launchers? Stop, dude. The potential dangers of a goddamn rocket launcher far outweighs that of loot boxes and I can't believe I had to write this sentence just now.

You could absolutely make cheeseburgers healthier, but they'd be much less appealing.

As far as "necessary", like I said earlier, games arent necessary. You don't need them, you just enjoy them even if others don't and even if a minority think they're harmful you still play them, right?

For some people, a loot box gives them value that they decide is worth the cost. They don't need it any more than you need your video game but that doesn't mean they're any less entitled to spend their own money how they see fit.

We will have to agree to disagree, which reasonable people can do. I am for transparency and providing the consumer with as much information as possible so they can make an intelligent decision. Selling tickets for random in-game prizes is gambling, in my book, period. If the game keeps that separate from the regular game progression that is fine, but when a competitive advantage is awarded for spending above and beyond the initial asking price for the game, then the initial price wasn't an honest one.

People are entitled to spend their money on what is available, sure, I just think the video game companies are being shady and short-sighted. That is the case with Star Wars BF2. I would pay $80 instead of $60 if progression wasn't locked behind a paywall and I got access to the whole game at the time of purchase. Now they are getting $0 from me. I am able to make this choice because I understand the way the game is set up. Little 11 year old Jimmy who asks his mom for this game for Xmas will get taken for a ride, because neither of them will likely have this information.

 

[fdswer]

Of course they're banking on it.


Of course they're banking on it.

But again, why single one company out? Neither EA nor Warner Brother invented loot boxes. Valve has had loot boxes for years and nobody gave a shit or said they were destroying lives. Overwatch has been out for awhile and the only thing people complained about was drop rates.

No they did not and there were people against the valve and overwatch loot boxes but the majority of people didnt care and the content was removed from the actual gameplay. The last year or so though they have started to put actual gameplay content in the loot boxes and making it harder to earn in game trying to get people to buy them. And it's not just EA Activision has been doing it the last couple of years with COD and GTA5 added in so much expensive content you were forced to buy the ingame currency. Just think of the bigger picture of where this could all headed in the next 5 years at the rate it is going, you can defend it all you want but in the end everyone is going to be paying for it. Some of these small studios make some really good games and provide free content and cheap expansions with a fraction of the budget the big guys do so there is zero reason why they need to do the things they are doing.

 

[fdswer]

We will have to agree to disagree, which reasonable people can do. I am for transparency and providing the consumer with as much information as possible so they can make an intelligent decision. Selling tickets for random in-game prizes is gambling, in my book, period. If the game keeps that separate from the regular game progression that is fine, but when a competitive advantage is awarded for spending above and beyond the initial asking price for the game, then the initial price wasn't an honest one.

People are entitled to spend their money on what is available, sure, I just think the video game companies are being shady and short-sighted. That is the case with Star Wars BF2. I would pay $80 instead of $60 if progression wasn't locked behind a paywall and I got access to the whole game at the time of purchase. Now they are getting $0 from me. I am able to make this choice because I understand the way the game is set up. Little 11 year old Jimmy who asks his mom for this game for Xmas will get taken for a ride, because neither of them will likely have this information.

Your last point is spot on. Someone that has no idea about how the cards work or progression systems works sees they keep getting killed by people with upgraded start cards, because obviously the game shows you every time you die. then they realize how much work actually goes into earning them in-game and go oh its just 10 bucks or whatever and they get a bit of a boost and its keeps repeating.

 

[Thunderchild]

Your last point is spot on. Someone that has no idea about how the cards work or progression systems works sees they keep getting killed by people with upgraded start cards, because obviously the game shows you every time you die. then they realize how much work actually goes into earning them in-game and go oh its just 10 bucks or whatever and they get a bit of a boost and its keeps repeating.

Exactly.

 

[fdswer]

Exactly.

I dont know if some people really dont understand whats going on or if they just dont want to admit that they are getting played and spent money on this stuff but hopefully people keep speaking up about whats going on.

 

[WUchi]

The last good game EA made was NHL '94