Darren Till admits he cuts from 210 pounds to make Welterweight

I'm with you there. I'm 6' 74" reach similar muscularity to Till. I keep hearing about his "frame" being big but that just sounds too heavy for what he looks like. Lean but hydrated I'm around 185, at 210 would look like shit.
 
rjmbrd said:
He's flat out too big for the division.

Shed some muscle weight or move to middleweight.

Wonderboy was very wise to insist on a second weigh-in, otherwise it would be completely unfair.
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I don't think he's too muscular for the division. There are plenty of fighters with similar muscle mass, or even more. Granted, some of them, like Woodley, may be several inches shorter than him. But at 6 foot even, he's not excessively tall either, just taller than average. His height/reach isn't nearly as effective at 185. I think it's a matter of discipline and professionalism. He may be working with some yobs from Liverpool instead of the best professionals in the sport when it comes to making weight.

I don't think he should move up (although if he misses weight again, especially in a title match, that choice may be taken away from him) or lose muscle mass, he just needs people behind him who know what they're doing and then he has to be a professional and do what they tell him. Woodley walks just as heavy (or at least he used to) with a TON of muscle and NEVER misses weight, but then again, he's an American wrestler and has been cutting weight most of his life. Americans and Brazilians seem to have a leg up when it comes to cutting weight. Euros and Asians tend not to do it as well.
 
Goon Dog said:
As a comparison, Rich Franklin was as scientific a weight cutter as I ever saw. He walked around at 210 (actually, he woke up at 210 and went to bed weighing 212. Like I said, he had it down to a science). He started his cut under 205 and that was to MW. If Till starts his cut at 210 he has no damned business trying to fight at 170.
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Franklin started his career and fought most of his fights at 205. He had a fight with Machida at 214 lbs and a few catch weight bouts of 190-195 after losing the 185 title. In fact, he fought the least amount of his fights at 185. Him cutting from 210-212 when he was a good sized LHW seems off.
 
Kazzy said:
If that’s true, then he really needs to move to MW. Lots of fun fights for him there too; Brunson would be a good test to see if he’s legit when fighting guys his size
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They're not actually the same size, though. Brunson is taller, longer, has more muscle mass, a larger frame, hits harder, etc. The equalizer is that Till is a more polished striker and Brunson is a bit chinny. But Till is a bit of a tweener. Too big to reliably make 170 without a lot of knowledge and discipline, but too small for a lot of the guys at 185 too.
 
Bjjpitbull8 said:
Franklin started his career and fought most of his fights at 205. He had a fight with Machida at 214 lbs and a few catch weight bouts of 190-195 after losing the 185 title. In fact, he fought the least amount of his fights at 185. Him cutting from 210-212 when he was a good sized LHW seems off.
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I trained with Rich before his first Anderson Silva fight. The numbers I posted were from that time. He was a big MW, that’s where the whole Franklin weight came from.
 
Goon Dog said:
As a comparison, Rich Franklin was as scientific a weight cutter as I ever saw. He walked around at 210 (actually, he woke up at 210 and went to bed weighing 212. Like I said, he had it down to a science). He started his cut under 205 and that was to MW. If Till starts his cut at 210 he has no damned business trying to fight at 170.
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Franklin was incredibly disciplined and hard working. One of those guys who would weigh his food like Sean Sherk. If you look at their respective backgrounds, Franklin got a master's degree and taught high school. He learned a lot about discipline and leadership. Till is a guy who moved to Brazil of all places to stay out of trouble after nearly being stabbed to death in his hometown of Liverpool. It seems to me like generally the working class of the US has more of a culture of hard work and discipline and having aspirations than the UK which has a generous welfare state and it seems like people are tied more into their generational familial class status.
 
Jackie Blue said:
Franklin was incredibly disciplined and hard working. One of those guys who would weigh his food like Sean Sherk. If you look at their respective backgrounds, Franklin got a master's degree and taught high school. He learned a lot about discipline and leadership. Till is a guy who moved to Brazil of all places to stay out of trouble after nearly being stabbed to death in his hometown of Liverpool. It seems to me like generally the working class of the US has more of a culture of hard work and discipline and having aspirations than the UK which has a generous welfare state and it seems like people are tied more into their generational familial class status.
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I'm afraid you don't know what you are talking about.
 
Jackie Blue said:
Franklin was incredibly disciplined and hard working. One of those guys who would weigh his food like Sean Sherk. If you look at their respective backgrounds, Franklin got a master's degree and taught high school. He learned a lot about discipline and leadership. Till is a guy who moved to Brazil of all places to stay out of trouble after nearly being stabbed to death in his hometown of Liverpool. It seems to me like generally the working class of the US has more of a culture of hard work and discipline and having aspirations than the UK which has a generous welfare state and it seems like people are tied more into their generational familial class status.
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Social mobility has declined since the last world war.
 
Arctic Joe said:
I'm afraid you don't know what you are talking about.
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All of the facts I listed are confirmed. Franklin and Sherk would both weigh their food when preparing for a fight. Everything Sherk ate while preparing for a fight was performance-specific rather than for taste. Franklin also has a master's degree and taught high school. I'm assuming your point of contention is my observational opinion that the American working class generally have a culture that promotes hard work, discipline and having aspirations more than the British working class. Yes, it's a bit of a generalization and doesn't necessarily apply at the individual level, but it's what I've observed, and just my honest opinion.

Britain (and Europe in general) seems to be more of a social democracy and a welfare state than the US which has a history of rugged individualism. Conor McGregor (not British I know, but Irish, which is somewhat similar) was pretty open about being on welfare when he won his first UFC fight and the "60 Gs, baby!" Working class Eddie Alvarez took him to task for it though, because in the US it's seen as shameful for an able-bodied young man to do such a thing. But Brits or Irish see it as pretty normal for young, able-bodied men to do. Feel free to disagree with that opinion though, although please also feel free to back up what you're saying with something more than a vague "you don't know what you're talking about."
 
no he fucking doesn't.

there is no chance in hell he loses 40lbs through dehydration. no way.

anyone who believes that is a monumental fucking idiot.
 
Jackie Blue said:
I don't think he's too muscular for the division. There are plenty of fighters with similar muscle mass, or even more. Granted, some of them, like Woodley, may be several inches shorter than him. But at 6 foot even, he's not excessively tall either, just taller than average. His height/reach isn't nearly as effective at 185. I think it's a matter of discipline and professionalism. He may be working with some yobs from Liverpool instead of the best professionals in the sport when it comes to making weight.

I don't think he should move up (although if he misses weight again, especially in a title match, that choice may be taken away from him) or lose muscle mass, he just needs people behind him who know what they're doing and then he has to be a professional and do what they tell him. Woodley walks just as heavy (or at least he used to) with a TON of muscle and NEVER misses weight, but then again, he's an American wrestler and has been cutting weight most of his life. Americans and Brazilians seem to have a leg up when it comes to cutting weight. Euros and Asians tend not to do it as well.
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I said, verbatim, "he's too big for the division."

When its your second time missing weight in just five fights, and its the premiere fight of your career and you are 3.5lbs over, you are literally too big for the division. It's not a subjective matter.

I'm suggesting he shed some muscle because he looks BONE DRY on the scale, so we know he's pulling out as much water as is reasonable, and he appears to be lean, so he doesn't have much body fat to cut.

If you take a close look at the size of his back and thighs, he's definitely well muscled. He just doesn't have beach muscles, but the density and size is there.
 
Jackie Blue said:
I don't think he's too muscular for the division. There are plenty of fighters with similar muscle mass, or even more. Granted, some of them, like Woodley, may be several inches shorter than him. But at 6 foot even, he's not excessively tall either, just taller than average. His height/reach isn't nearly as effective at 185. I think it's a matter of discipline and professionalism. He may be working with some yobs from Liverpool instead of the best professionals in the sport when it comes to making weight.

I don't think he should move up (although if he misses weight again, especially in a title match, that choice may be taken away from him) or lose muscle mass, he just needs people behind him who know what they're doing and then he has to be a professional and do what they tell him. Woodley walks just as heavy (or at least he used to) with a TON of muscle and NEVER misses weight, but then again, he's an American wrestler and has been cutting weight most of his life. Americans and Brazilians seem to have a leg up when it comes to cutting weight. Euros and Asians tend not to do it as well.
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certain peds really help making weight.
 
thats not that big of deal im around 200- 215 before my fight camps start depends on the amount of fat i have if im super lean im 190
 
punky brewster said:
"Cuts from _______" weight is not the same as "between fight walk-around weight."
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yes uneducated fans dont understand this every single fighter but maybe 3 cut at least 15 pounds of water weight from there walka round weight average guy loses 30 within the 6 week camp cutting 2 pounds of fat a week in diet till the final week is about 15-20 pounds
 
rjmbrd said:
I said, verbatim, "he's too big for the division."

When its your second time missing weight in just five fights, and its the premiere fight of your career and you are 3.5lbs over, you are literally too big for the division. It's not a subjective matter.

I'm suggesting he shed some muscle because he looks BONE DRY on the scale, so we know he's pulling out as much water as is reasonable, and he appears to be lean, so he doesn't have much body fat to cut.

If you take a close look at the size of his back and thighs, he's definitely well muscled. He just doesn't have beach muscles, but the density and size is there.
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It's kind of a grey area. I'm not necessarily telling you you are wrong, but I believe it is an attainable weight, it just takes knowledge and discipline. I'm not sure why he missed weight the first time. The 2nd time was a bit of a special circumstance with his pregnant girlfriend having complications and being hospitalized. No excuses, but I believe he can make the weight moving forward. He will be given at least another chance to make 170 moving forward.

I think his height/reach is better suited at 170 than 185. Even frame wise, he doesn't really match up with most 185 fighters. He's a bit of a tweener and he would be perfect for a prospective weight class between 170 and 185. But given this is MMA and not boxing, he's best suited to 170. Should only fight at 185 if forced to by missing weight again. But we've seen that backfire on guys like Hendricks. Even guys like Gastelum would fare better at 170 to me. Rumble benefited from being forced up, but he's actually taller and bigger framed than Till and hits a lot harder.
 
Jackie Blue said:
True, but I really don't think they're regional specific, so...

PS- Steroids are actually easier to obtain in Asia since they're legal there.
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the steroids might be available, but the good doctors that know how to use them aren't so easy to find. and roiders without good doctors get caught.
 
Till will be forced to move to middleweight in no time.
 
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