Cracks in the EU: Ongoing Discussion

[VivaRevolution]

I'll defer to your opinion on that as I must admit to not being familiar with it.

Check it out. Go to the daily news stories Sibel Edmonds pulls from other sources. No mass shooting coverage, no identity politics. Pure geo-political analysis.

 

[Teppodama]

Check it out. Go to the daily news stories Sibel Edmonds pulls from other sources. No mass shooting coverage, no identity politics. Pure geo-political analysis.

 

[superpunch]

If anything we need more fragmentation. No beurcrat from a region a time zone away from others is ever going to understand their needs.

Diversification only works as a hedge when the individual components share different reactions to different threats. For example, if you own a stock portfolio of tech stocks, oil stocks, retail stocks, and airplane travel stocks then when the price of oil goes down, you will lose money on oil stocks but make up for it with a profit in airplane travel stocks.

There's one problem with using this idea on a 21st century portfolio of diverse nations: we all share the same weakness to radiation and other physical threats. And, as our ability to destroy grows exponentially and our desire to fight each other stays constant, we will all die.

North Korea getting nukes and ICBMs is the canary in coal mine. It's not going to get any less scary from here. It's only going to get worse, faster. Something needs to be done soon to unify the human race.

Maybe the human race is doomed because of our inability to unify and stop physically destroying each other. Maybe we're just an intermediary species between monkeys and mechanical beings immune to radiation and other physical threats.

 

[Teppodama]

Tory Brexiteer’s Call For EU Hard Brexit, WTO Rules ‘Christmas Ultimatum

Brexiteer and key Conservative backbencher Owen Paterson addressed the Heritage Foundation in Washington D.C. Thursday, using the opportunity to discuss Brexit and the European Union (EU).

Slamming the EU for their foot-dragging over negotiating a trade deal with the departing United Kingdom — the number one priority for Brexit as far as the British government is concerned — former minister Paterson said the government should set a deadline, and if terms are not met to simply call off talks and unilaterally depart the union.

Articulating his aspiration that Britain should be more decisive in its dealings with the EU, Paterson said “…if the EU does not show serious intent to negotiate free trade arrangements, on the basis of reciprocal free trade based on mutual recognition of conformity of standards, by Christmas, we should give clear notice on January 1st that we’re leaving and we’re going to work on WTO terms.”

World Trade Organisation (WTO) terms refer to the basic agreements for trade between nations set by the WTO — a global body at which Britain gave up its seat at to be represented by the European Union instead. They would allow Britain to continue trading with the world — including Europe — without striking special deals, and could nbe built upon in future with new trade agreements.

Paterson’s remarks followed others he made at the Conservative party conference in Manchester, United Kingdom earlier in the week when he stood besides fellow back-bench driving force for Brexit Jacob Rees-Mogg and said: “if the European Union is still messing around by Christmas and they haven’t started serious discussions on reciprocal free trade based on recognition of conformity of standards, we give notice on the first of January that we would be moving to WTO rules”.

On the act of leaving the European Union itself, Paterson was again upbeat, criticising the European Union for pushing voters into rejecting it and saying Britain wasn’t leaving a moment too soon. Comparing Brexit to the American declaration of independence, remarking that both 18th century colonial Britain and the 21st century European Union had indulged in “overreach”, Paterson said of Brussels: ““At every stage, they’re over-ruled the democratic views that have gone against it. And they’ve won so far. This is the first time anyone’s going to stand up to them.”

On the stuttering process of keeping the Union together among economic stagnation and increasingly reticent member states, Paterson said: “We’re only just going to get out in time, because I do not see this project succeeding long-term, and it’s certainly not succeeding economically… The UK was sold that it was joining an economic project, a market. They [the public] were never told they were actually joining a fledgling nation. They were lied to. And they’ve rumbled the lie.”

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/10/07/owen-paterson-britain-leaving-eu-just-nick-time/

 

[GtehMVP]

Diversification only works as a hedge when the individual components share different reactions to different threats. For example, if you own a stock portfolio of tech stocks, oil stocks, retail stocks, and airplane travel stocks then when the price of oil goes down, you will lose money on oil stocks but make up for it with a profit in airplane travel stocks.

There's one problem with using this idea on a 21st century portfolio of diverse nations: we all share the same weakness to radiation and other physical threats. And, as our ability to destroy grows exponentially and our desire to fight each other stays constant, we will all die.

North Korea getting nukes and ICBMs is the canary in coal mine. It's not going to get any less scary from here. It's only going to get worse, faster. Something needs to be done soon to unify the human race.

Maybe the human race is doomed because of our inability to unify and stop physically destroying each other. Maybe we're just an intermediary species between monkeys and mechanical beings immune to radiation and other physical threats.

There are certain things we can find common ground on, like developing the means to defend the planet from Asteroid/comet strikes.

Things of that nature, absolutely, but when you start talking one world government type nonsense, that's where you lose me

A central body can never fulfill the needs, let alone wants, of wide and diverse populations, how many more examples in history do you need?

 

[Skulli]

I know people are happy to see someone kick back at the EU, but Poland is not just refusing to take migrants, they are also destroying their democratic process, and civil rights.

No open boarders in exchange for corrupt courts, and more centralized authoritarian power. Seems like a shit deal.

Did you hear that on cnn or a german news website lol ?

The courts are already brutally corrupt, naturally by themselves and especially by the previous pro Eu gov that put their own people in power before the lost it.

Actually they are exercising their democracy, the previous Pro Eu corrupt gov was booted out of power by a democratic VOTE and the current one is just doing what they said they would and what the people voted for.

Only shit deal here is your understanding of the topic.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Did you hear that on cnn or a german news website lol ?

The courts are already brutally corrupt, naturally by themselves and especially by the previous pro Eu gov that put their own people in power before the lost it.

Actually they are exercising their democracy, the previous Pro Eu corrupt gov was booted out of power by a democratic VOTE and the current one is just doing what they said they would and what the people voted for.

Only shit deal here is your understanding of the topic.

Whitebeltsayswhat?

 

[Bacco]

EU showing one more time theyr true colors, nothing new

Cheers for Poland, Hungary and Czech Rep for still care about theyr peoples

 

[snakedafunky]

Makes sense "Patriot" Poles were used by the globalist American and the UK to cause WW2 already.
Also WTF is a "patriotic" Pole? What is there be patriotic about? The rich Polish history and list of achievements?

Lol that's like being a proud Chihuahua at the dog park when all other Dogs are German Shepherds.
But the globalist cats keep talking them into starting fights with the Shepherds.

 

[TheGreatA]

Not a chance in hell that any migrants would stay in Poland anyway, as long as there is free movement within Europe.

These people are here to enjoy the social services of the "higher end" European countries (Germany, Sweden, etc.), we just need to acknowledge that fact and move the fuck over it. No reason to keep bothering countries like Poland, Czech republic or Hungary over it.

 

[TheGreatA]

Makes sense "Patriot" Poles were used by the globalist American and the UK to cause WW2 already.
Also WTF is a "patriotic" Pole? What is there be patriotic about? The rich Polish history and list of achievements?

Lol that's like being a proud Chihuahua at the dog park when all other Dogs are German Shepherds.
But the globalist cats keep talking them into starting fights with the Shepherds.

Poland does have a rich history with a lot of achievements to its name. Perhaps not so much in recent memory, but they did play a very crucial part in Europe ending up how it is today.

The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth can boast, among other things, to have been the first attempt at establishing a more democratic and liberal state, amongst the absolute monarchies of the Middle Ages.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Lithuanian_Commonwealth#State_organization_and_politics

 

[snakedafunky]

Poland does have a rich history with a lot of achievements to its name. Perhaps not so much in recent memory, but they did play a very crucial part in Europe ending up how it is today.

The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth can boast, among other things, to have been the first attempt at establishing a more democratic and liberal state, amongst the absolute monarchies of the Middle Ages.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Lithuanian_Commonwealth#State_organization_and_politics

I don't want to bash Poland to much. My beef would be more with the other states that used Poland for their own interest and left them out to dry and be invaded by the Germany first chance they got.
They simply tricked Poland into not negotiating with Germany by giving them a guarantee to interfere they never had any interest of obeying too.
Just to be totally fine with the Soviets invading them two weeks later.

The same countries that conspired against Poland and Germany than are the once doing ti now. American capitalist, the British and the Russians.
And the poles are falling for it again. Poland is single greatest benefactor of the EU. Is tricked into it again.
That being said the EU needs to take Poland's concern serious.
But if they would be so stupid to turn away from Europe again. They just have to look at history and see what happened the last time.

 

[gspieler]

Makes sense "Patriot" Poles were used by the globalist American and the UK to cause WW2 already.
Also WTF is a "patriotic" Pole? What is there be patriotic about? The rich Polish history and list of achievements?

Lol that's like being a proud Chihuahua at the dog park when all other Dogs are German Shepherds.
But the globalist cats keep talking them into starting fights with the Shepherds.

By your logic, only people from a handful of countries in the planet can patriotic. Even then, Poles have plenty to take pride in. Poland has a rich history, and made relevant scientific, cultural, and militaristic contributions to western civilization. They just happen to be a flat country, oriented between two historical superpowers.

 

[SomebodyElse]

OWG would need to follow a Jeffersonian-model-derived democracy, where smaller governments addressed local needs directly via democratic process and larger needs (such as National Defense) were deferred to larger government, again via democratic process.

These democratic processes, in turn, must avoid "winner-take-all" systems such as those utilized by the US. Instead, distribution of representation according to percentage of vote received increase likelihood of fair representation, encourages everyone to participate, including the fringe (which in turn decreases their motivation for extra-legal action), and prevents a "tyranny of the majority" unless it is a TRUE majority, and smaller parties could join to oppose actions against their interest.

Lastly, it is almost always preferable to govern via incentives (proverbial carrots), than via punishments (proverbial sticks). This part is going to be extraordinarily unpopular at first, as very little to nothing is traditionally done this way. But it's the right approach.

 

[snakedafunky]

By your logic, only people from a handful of countries in the planet can patriotic. Even then, Poles have plenty to take pride in. Poland has a rich history, and made relevant scientific, cultural, and militaristic contributions to western civilization. They just happen to be a flat country, oriented between two historical superpowers.

What is there to take pride in being Polish?
I mean the thing Poland is most known for is that the Nazis build Auschwitz in Poland.
They are also not a real country. They currently occupy a lot of territory other more powerful country have a legit claim on.

If I were Polish I would jump on the opportunity of European unification. I mean most people working in other EU countries are Poles, they get the most money, and they occupy territories other countries might want back if they aren't unified.

This nationalistic BS people try to sell Polish people is simply not based on reality. Its same stuff that got them invaded by the Nazis and soviets.
They thought they are to good to negotiate. Well I think it has been shown they are not.

 

[gspieler]

What is there to take pride in being Polish?
I mean the thing Poland is most known for is that the Nazis build Auschwitz in Poland.
They are also not a real country. They currently occupy a lot of territory other more powerful country have a legit claim on.

If I were Polish I would jump on the opportunity of European unification. I mean most people working in other EU countries are Poles, they get the most money, and they occupy territories other countries might want back if they aren't unified.

This nationalistic BS people try to sell Polish people is simply not based on reality. Its same stuff that got them invaded by the Nazis and soviets.
They thought they are to good to negotiate. Well I think it has been shown they are not.

What do mean by "legit claim"? Are you claiming Germans/Russian have a better claim on the land traditionally occupied by Poles than Poles themselves? After WWI, the model for Eurpean nations was largely based on ethnic group identity. Hence, Poland was no less a country than the other countries that existed off that model.

 

[snakedafunky]

What do mean by "legit claim"? Are you claiming Germans/Russian have a better claim on the land traditionally occupied by Poles than Poles themselves? After WWI, the model for Eurpean nations was largely based on ethnic group identity. Hence, Poland was no less a country than the other countries that existed off that model.

Yes, but I am not saying they have a better claim. Just that they can make a legit claim to some Polish territory
(the same Poland can make a legit claim to territory further to the East and South being Polish)
I mean East Prussia from a historical point is German Land. Danzig is a German city.
And the whole East Prussian region has been occupied by a large German population for centuries.

Now I am not saying Germany would have a better claim than Poland. But you certainly couldn't argue against Germany simply wanting back traditional German territories.
That's why its so dangerous to feat the nationalist ego from states like Poland or any state really. Because they might buy it and it ends in disaster.
They would be way better off being Polish in a unified Europe. Compared to being Poles by themselves.

And I do actually agree with Poland stands on the refugee crisis. I just have an issue with how they handle it.
If you are in a Union like the EU there are ways of doing things.
Having a nationalist in power desperately trying to stay in power by steering up some Polish nationalism and blaming the Germans on all their issue has not served them well in the past.

 

[Prex32]

No reason to keep bothering countries like Poland, Czech republic or Hungary over it.

of course theres a reason. for the eu autocrats at least. it's not about the migrants at all. it's made to drag those countries in to the mud, to put sanctions over them.

 

[Skulli]

I don't want to bash Poland to much. My beef would be more with the other states that used Poland for their own interest and left them out to dry and be invaded by the Germany first chance they got.
They simply tricked Poland into not negotiating with Germany by giving them a guarantee to interfere they never had any interest of obeying too.
Just to be totally fine with the Soviets invading them two weeks later.

The same countries that conspired against Poland and Germany than are the once doing ti now. American capitalist, the British and the Russians.
And the poles are falling for it again. Poland is single greatest benefactor of the EU. Is tricked into it again.
That being said the EU needs to take Poland's concern serious.
But if they would be so stupid to turn away from Europe again. They just have to look at history and see what happened the last time.

Who genocided 6 million of their citizens and planned the genocide of hundreds of million of people. And you want to pretend the Brits or Americans were/are the bad guys lol.

Are you implying the west knew of molotov ribbentrop pact ? the wests cowardice does not make them a traitor to the Pols, they were just cowards who never expected to get into a fight.

Actually the greatest benefactor of the Eu are the germans. I do not see any legitimate way where you could claim otherwise. Do post it if you have ways.

What is there to take pride in being Polish?
I mean the thing Poland is most known for is that the Nazis build Auschwitz in Poland.
They are also not a real country. They currently occupy a lot of territory other more powerful country have a legit claim on.

If I were Polish I would jump on the opportunity of European unification. I mean most people working in other EU countries are Poles, they get the most money, and they occupy territories other countries might want back if they aren't unified.

This nationalistic BS people try to sell Polish people is simply not based on reality. Its same stuff that got them invaded by the Nazis and soviets.
They thought they are to good to negotiate. Well I think it has been shown they are not.

What is there to take pride in being German?

They are best known as murderous genocidal nazis who tried to exterminate the jews, with the icing on the cake know for the concentration camps gestapo and the SS. And hollywood will never let anyone forget that. Germans are still so deeply nazi to most people and even themselves that Fräulein MErkel flooded her nation with millions of muslims to look "less like nazis"

Can germany be called a real nation? It's more a cluster fuck of former small states, Bavaria has more historical right to be a nation then the bastard modern creation under the name of germany.

So Hitler was right lol. No seriously, you do come of a nazi apologist. Make near exact arguments stormfront types would make.

 

[uppercutbus]

Makes sense "Patriot" Poles were used by the globalist American and the UK to cause WW2 already.
Also WTF is a "patriotic" Pole? What is there be patriotic about? The rich Polish history and list of achievements?

Lol that's like being a proud Chihuahua at the dog park when all other Dogs are German Shepherds.
But the globalist cats keep talking them into starting fights with the Shepherds.

You don't need some rich culture or awesome history to say no to Muslim invasion, what sort retarded red herring is this.

You're just mad they have a homogenous society and want to dilute it with some open border madness.