Chuck Liddell without Pride Fighting

[Cake4Breakfast]

Rampage, Shogun and Wand beat him imo. Lil Nog fight would be interesting, I think Chuck would end up taking him down and winning a decision.

I am always surprised to hear people say they thought Wand won that fight, I saw it clearly for Chuck with him winning 1&3. Wand fought valiantly, it was an amazing war, but I even remember Wand conceding that he knew he lost the fight when Chuck landed the spinning back fist in round three.

 

[PRIDEWASBETTER]

If it had been in regular Pride rules Wand would have probably won back then since Mirko hadn't developed his legendary TDD yet.

I actually agree with you. That fight, IMO, prompted Mirko to work on TDD.

 

[bushidoman]

I say that Wandy's fight with Chuck was entertaining, but irrelevant to both of their primes. The way Chuck was getting KOed by guys near this time period? And Wandy lost to freaking Leben? Leben!! Entertaining fight, but too little too late. Not fair to either fighter to judge them from this fight so late in their careers.

 

[UFCWand1317]

Tito beat Wand a year before Wand became champ, Tito and Arona both competed at the 2000 ADCC in the same weightclass where Tito got bronze and Arona got first, this was after Tito had only been training BJJ for 3 years and was still in college. Rampage trained with Tito while they were in their respective orgs and Rampage said Tito would usually get him down and was toughest partner he had. Tito isnt as awful as you think.

i know tito won their first fight.... but if WAND and tito fought again during WAND's six years as champ in Pride which i would consider his prime I think WAND would of wore tito's face as a hat and tito would of left in a body bag especially if the fight was in pride and yellow cards would of been handed out if tito did managed to take wand down which i dont think he could of bc in a second fight bc WAND would of knew thats tito's only chance and would of trained big time his TDD as he did for his second fight with arona...i personally think tito is the most overrated fighter ever and has only two legit wins....beating a young/inexpirenced WAND and belfort.....and ARONA would of beat tito into the living death as ken shamrock said

 

[djacobox372]

Shogun's chin and tenacity make him a nightmare matchup for Chuck. Him Rampage and Lil Nog would all beat chuck.

But if he could avoid those few, both wand and fedor might have trouble with chuck's power and TDD.

 

[UFCWand1317]

Much better is an exaggeration

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCh7WFLg_L4

here is Tito vs Arona at ADCC 2000. Tito got Arona down several times and was on top for a long time, Arona didnt get Tito on his back once.

then how did arona beat tito in this event and take 1st place in this event....arona owns tito in grappling and would of spanked him in a fight

 

[MiroHa]

Shogun's chin and tenacity make him a nightmare matchup for Chuck. Him Rampage and Lil Nog would all beat chuck.

But if he could avoid those few, both wand and fedor might have trouble with chuck's power and TDD.

Fedor? Come on, man.

 

[lowsingle]

i think he wouldve beat wand and still lost to rampage due to styles

he mightve beat pride era shogun, because shogun won a lot of his fights via gnp back then and that shits hard to do on chuck. but i would pick shogun

so i think pre-shogun, the champ would depend on which guy he was paired up with.

and thats not even counting randy or tito upsets vs pride fighters

 

[shogunko**]

This.

Pre 2006 Wanderlei would take any hit from Chuck hands down, I'm not saying Chuck didnt hit hard because that's stupid, but Prime Wanderlei was from another planet.

wandy took beatings from cro cop and hunt. a prime wandy would of ate chuck alive(chuck said in an interview that wanderlei was the only person he would take down in a fight).

 

[613]

2003-2006 Chuck would have lost to Pride's top 3 LHWs.

He always would be a real bad match up for Wandy especially in the Octagon. He losses to Shogun/Rampage but beats Wandy

 

[613]

wandy took beatings from cro cop and hunt. a prime wandy would of ate chuck alive(chuck said in an interview that wanderlei was the only person he would take down in a fight).

It really is unbelievable how much people underrate Chuck because he fought in the UFC. He beats prime Wandy in the octagon!

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Liddell wouldn't have been as dominant but neither would Wanderlei or Shogun, Pride had the better 205 division but they tended to have more strikers where as the UFC had more grapplers, Shogun and Wanderlei's style was more tailored for the Pride ring and rules so that wouldn't have helped them either.

 

[Hans Gruber]

What would Chuck Lidell's career would have been like if there was no Pride organization. I would argue he would have still been a great fighter but never would have had that long UFC run. At any point in his career could he have handled Rua? I seriously doubt that. Rua was too well rounded for Chuck. Also he would have had to deal with Rampage and that never worked out to good for him.

It is possible that Chuck would have held on to title very briefly if at all. You figure he won the title in 2005 and Rua was already dominating by then.

Call me crazy but here is how I think he would have done against some of the top Pride LHWs

Dan Henderson > Chuck
Shogun > Chuck
Rampage > Chuck

Wanderlei => Chuck (Close call-slight edge to Wanderlei)
Lil Nog => Chuck (Close call - slight edge to Lil Nog)

Chuck > Arona
Chuck > Igor
Chuck > Overeem
Chuck > Vitor (Close....their fight in the UFC was close)

Chuck was very legit....he just fought in a much weaker LHW division unfortunately.

 

[Idonotbelieveit]

Overall a much better fighter I agree, not sure he was a better wrestler.

they both have good wrestling, both had a great double. they had a grappling match back in 2000 and it was pretty close, arona had some nice td's on tito.

 

[Idonotbelieveit]

Much better is an exaggeration

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCh7WFLg_L4

here is Tito vs Arona at ADCC 2000. Tito got Arona down several times and was on top for a long time, Arona didnt get Tito on his back once.

yes he did!

i haven't watched it in a while and can't be bothered to watch it tonight, but arona pulled guard a few times iirc.. tito did get him down once or twice but so did arona.

as for better fighter, arona had just as good wrestling, maybe better.. great low kicks, bjj.. tito had better gnp but arona couldn't use elbows in pride, he did show good gnp in the second wanderlei fight.

 

[shogunko**]

I think Shogun and prime Wandy would have beaten him, though I'm not sure if Wandy would have been able to do so without PEDs. I don't think Rampage would have ever been able to do it without PEDs. To me, that's such a a huge asterisk with any UFC-PRIDE comparison just because you saw so many of those guys come to the PED regulated environment of the UFC and not really perform at the same level.

I'm not trying to fighter bash and I certainly don't know anything about any individual fighter cases, but PEDs were so endemic in Japan at the time that I think it's a reasonable assumption that at least some of these guys helped their careers a great deal with pharmaceuticals (which were not against the rules, at least de facto).

you have no proof any of them took peds.

 

[shogunko**]

Call me crazy but here is how I think he would have done against some of the top Pride LHWs

Dan Henderson > Chuck
Shogun > Chuck
Rampage > Chuck

Wanderlei => Chuck (Close call-slight edge to Wanderlei)
Lil Nog => Chuck (Close call - slight edge to Lil Nog)

Chuck > Arona
Chuck > Igor
Chuck > Overeem
Chuck > Vitor (Close....their fight in the UFC was close)

Chuck was very legit....he just fought in a much weaker LHW division unfortunately.

if he would of standed with igor chuck would of got ko'd lets be honest here.

 

[tec5210]

I think Shogun and prime Wandy would have beaten him, though I'm not sure if Wandy would have been able to do so without PEDs. I don't think Rampage would have ever been able to do it without PEDs. To me, that's such a a huge asterisk with any UFC-PRIDE comparison just because you saw so many of those guys come to the PED regulated environment of the UFC and not really perform at the same level.

I'm not trying to fighter bash and I certainly don't know anything about any individual fighter cases, but PEDs were so endemic in Japan at the time that I think it's a reasonable assumption that at least some of these guys helped their careers a great deal with pharmaceuticals (which were not against the rules, at least de facto).

Rampage on PEDs? Even in the UFC when he took Chuck's Title with ease? I know people assume Wand was on them, which i understand but Rampage? Just because he fought in Japan is no reason to.

That said, I'd love to have seen Chuck vs Hendo.

 

[Fantastic_Man]

I think Shogun and prime Wandy would have beaten him, though I'm not sure if Wandy would have been able to do so without PEDs. I don't think Rampage would have ever been able to do it without PEDs. To me, that's such a a huge asterisk with any UFC-PRIDE comparison just because you saw so many of those guys come to the PED regulated environment of the UFC and not really perform at the same level.

I'm not trying to fighter bash and I certainly don't know anything about any individual fighter cases, but PEDs were so endemic in Japan at the time that I think it's a reasonable assumption that at least some of these guys helped their careers a great deal with pharmaceuticals (which were not against the rules, at least de facto).

All of Chucks fights before Bustamante, he was full of PED's.. Oh, and all his Pride fights!

Speculation works both ways.

 

[UFCWand1317]

01-06 Wanderlei would of wore Chuck's face as a hat....wand would of destroyed him like he did rampage in there two pride fights....actually prolly would of been worse and chuck would of left in a body bag...