Call for tougher penalties for animal cruelty

I'm not saying that at all. Don't take this personally but that's a pretty fuckin stupid inference to make.

The law can classify things how it sees fit. That means they can make a pet a different classification than it currently is.

Right now a pet of any kind is chattel. Same as a chair or a lamp. And as long as a pet has that legal classification then animal abuse is always going to exist bc it's difficult under the law to punish someone for simply damaging chattel.

I'd go on but I'm sure you are too fucking stupid to understand what I said, and typically why I don't post in threads any more of any political nature bc it results in shit kicking mouth breathing fuckwads coming out to twist whatever I said into something really fucking stupid.



No shit pets are chattel. Thats the point. If animals weren't property you wouldn't be able to buy them, lock them up in a house/yard and declare them 'pets'. If you give animals personal rights then wtf gives you the legal right to own them as pets to begin with? It's the ultimate oxymoron debate.
 
We don't get to overlay human morality on animals or bugs. That is not our place whether they understand it or not. It has zero value to animals and insects as it should.

So when we look at it through the eyes of another we see that animals want a chance at life. They want a chance to procreate and propagate the species. Its an instinctual drive and perhaps the only real one they live for. If we agree on that then we also must agree that HOW they eventually die would have zero meaning to them since they do not think that way.

We do and because we do people like you correlate the way they die (man predation V animal predation) with an importance that is meaningless.

The animal does not want to live ONLY IF it lives a life without eventual harm (predation) as that is not a possibility.

So why would some person with misplaced morals, putting value where it does not belong (the method of death) make a determination for an animal (not to exist) based on their misguided idea that animal predation is ok but human predation is bad?

No animal wants to die via predation, you are correct. But they all do (short of pets and a few by disease) and that is just a function of their lives. Lives they still want DESPITE the eventual death. So vegan's are so misguided in trying to save these animals from a death method they do not care about by preventing them from ever having a life. Vegans think they are doing that animal a favour when that animal would tell them to fuck off and let me live. If they want to live despite the fact the wolf will one day get them they certainly want to live on an ethical and safe farm despite the fact one day the farmer will get them.

Skimmed through and all I see is the same bs you have spouted time and again. The bit that really leaps out though is at the end where you say the animals would tell vegans to fuck off and leave them alone. Beyond absurd considering the whole principle behind the veganism I promote is that this is exactly what I'm saying we should be doing... leaving animals the fuck alone to fulfill their own evolutionary urges and desires. You also have the audacity to say "we think we are doing the animals a favour" when clearly you are the delusional one who thinks we are doing them a favour by playing God and manipulating their whole existence for them from the day they are born until the day they meet their violent end. By your logic it would be better for all animals to be used as human commodities since the lives we give them are suposedly so much better than life in the wild. Lets round them all up, stick them in zoos, farm them, stick them in research labs etc but god forbid we let them live a life of freedom and die of natural causes. How awful that must be eh. Fuck outta here.

Everything else you say is the same tired old straw man bullshit about me trying to transpose human morality onto non human animals when one of the pivotal points of my argument for veganism is that we are moral agents and they are not. Animals may not be exactly like us but they share enough similarities to us that there is no rational reason why they should not be afforded the same fundamental right that we expect for ourselves... the right not to be treated as property.

Ever rescued wild animals? I do so all the time, I nurse them back to health myself or take them to a wildlife rescue about an hours drive from me. We are helping to alleviate their suffering and giving them the chance to continue enjoying their life of freedom but they don't understand this. Though they may be very ill or injured they are desperate to be free again and though they could live in the comfort of my home, never have to desperately search for food or be in danger of predation again and might live another 10 years instead of only 1 this is irrelevant because regardless of the dangers they face in the wild they value their freedom above all else.

Anyway. I've had more than enough of your offensively staggering ignorance and your unrelenting insistance on trying to divert away from the real crux of the matter by continually attempting to derail with your painfully transparent straw man crap. I've made my points perfectly clear and I'm done wasting my energy trying to reason with delusional tools like you.
 
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So vegan's are so misguided in trying to save these animals from a death method they do not care about by preventing them from ever having a life. Vegans think they are doing that animal a favour when that animal would tell them to fuck off and let me live. If they want to live despite the fact the wolf will one day get them they certainly want to live on an ethical and safe farm despite the fact one day the farmer will get them.

You're the misguided one. You don't know the half of why I'm a Vegan.

Here's a quick example. I don't want to be part of this.

20,000 pigs die in latest massive Dutch factory farm fire

Some 20,000 pigs have died in a fire at a factory farm near the Gelderland village of Erichem, in what is the second major farm fire this month.

The fire broke out in the four two-storey barns where the pigs were kept and firemen were unable to save any of the animals, news agency ANP said. Earlier this month nearly 80,000 chickens died in another factory farm fire.

Animal welfare lobby group Wakker Dier says never before have so many pigs died in a single blaze.


The organisation keeps a running tally of factory farm fire deaths which shows nearly 200,000 animals have been killed so far this year. That means 2017 is likely to be the worst year for factory farm fires since 2011, when 319,000 pigs and chickens were killed.

Although higher safety standards were introduced in 2014, many older barns are still very unsafe, the organisation says. In addition, new barns do not have to have proper sprinkler systems or smoke alarms.

The pro-animal PvdD introduced a motion to parliament at the beginning of July calling for better fire safety at factory farms, but it failed to win enough support. The three Christian parties and two Liberal parties D66 and VVD voted against the measure.

PvdD parliamentarian Esther Ouwehand said her party will renew its efforts to win improvements in factory farm legislation after the recess.

’Nog nooit zoveel dode varkens bij één brand’ https://t.co/eHFE8HkSHG met reactie van @estherouwehand

— PvdD (@PartijvdDieren) July 28, 2017

Update: 31.7.2017: It later transpired that the owner of the factory farm had been banned from keeping pigs in Germany because of the poor conditions he was keeping the animals in and had been fined several times in the Netherlands.


He is also believed to own several pig farms in Hungary. According to the NRC, he is the biggest pig farmer in Europe.

Locals have also complained for years about the smell from the Erichem farm.


http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archiv...ie-in-latest-massive-dutch-factory-farm-fire/
 
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You're the misguided one. You don't know the half of why I'm a Vegan.

Here's a quick example. I don't want to be part of this.

20,000 pigs die in latest massive Dutch factory farm fire

Some 20,000 pigs have died in a fire at a factory farm near the Gelderland village of Erichem, in what is the second major farm fire this month.

The fire broke out in the four two-storey barns where the pigs were kept and firemen were unable to save any of the animals, news agency ANP said. Earlier this month nearly 80,000 chickens died in another factory farm fire.

Animal welfare lobby group Wakker Dier says never before have so many pigs died in a single blaze.


The organisation keeps a running tally of factory farm fire deaths which shows nearly 200,000 animals have been killed so far this year. That means 2017 is likely to be the worst year for factory farm fires since 2011, when 319,000 pigs and chickens were killed.

Although higher safety standards were introduced in 2014, many older barns are still very unsafe, the organisation says. In addition, new barns do not have to have proper sprinkler systems or smoke alarms.

The pro-animal PvdD introduced a motion to parliament at the beginning of July calling for better fire safety at factory farms, but it failed to win enough support. The three Christian parties and two Liberal parties D66 and VVD voted against the measure.

PvdD parliamentarian Esther Ouwehand said her party will renew its efforts to win improvements in factory farm legislation after the recess.

’Nog nooit zoveel dode varkens bij één brand’ https://t.co/eHFE8HkSHG met reactie van @estherouwehand

— PvdD (@PartijvdDieren) July 28, 2017

Update: 31.7.2017: It later transpired that the owner of the factory farm had been banned from keeping pigs in Germany because of the poor conditions he was keeping the animals in and had been fined several times in the Netherlands.


He is also believed to own several pig farms in Hungary. According to the NRC, he is the biggest pig farmer in Europe.

Locals have also complained for years about the smell from the Erichem farm.


http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archiv...ie-in-latest-massive-dutch-factory-farm-fire/
Not reading either mini novel thru but seeing your first lines I'll point out it's a straw man to argue from the point that assumes someone who does eat meat is not also against factory farm conditions.
 
Skimmed through and all I see is the same bs you have spouted time and again. The bit that really leaps out though is at the end where you say the animals would tell vegans to fuck off and leave them alone. Beyond absurd considering the whole principle behind the veganism I promote is that this exactly what we should be doing... leaving animals the fuck alone to fulfill their own evolutionary urges and desires. You also have the audacity to say "we think we are doing the animals a favour" when clearly you are the delusional one who thinks we are doing them a favour by playing God and manipulating their whole existence for them from the day they are born until the day they meet their violent end. By your logic it would be better for all animals to be used as human commodities since the lives we give them are suposedly so much better than life in the wild. Lets round them all up, stick them in zoos, farm them, stick them in research labs etc but god forbid we let them live a life of freedom and die of natural causes. How awful that must be eh. Fuck outta here.

Everything else you say is the same tired old straw man bullshit about me trying to transpose human morality onto non human animals when one of the pivotal points of my argument for veganism is that we are moral agents and they are not. Animals may not be exactly like us but they share enough similarities to us that there is no rational reason why they should not be afforded the same fundamental right that we expect for ourselves... the right not to be treated as property.

Ever rescued wild animals? I do so all the time, I nurse them back to health myself or take them to a wildlife rescue about an hours drive from me. We are helping to alleviate their suffering and giving them the chance to continue enjoying their life of freedom but they don't understand this. Though they may be very ill or injured they are desperate to be free again and though they could live in the comfort of my home, never have to desperately search for food or be in danger of predation again and might live another 10 years instead of only 1 this is irrelevant because regardless of the dangers they face in the wild they value their freedom above all else.

Anyway. I've had more than enough of your offensively staggering ignorance and your unrelenting insistance on trying to divert away from the real crux of the matter by continually attempting to derail with your painfully transparent straw man crap. I've made my points perfectly clear and I'm done wasting my energy trying to reason with delusional tools like you.
You'll keep getting the same because you can never answer it.

Man is naturally part of the predation cycle of animals.

It is nature and natural for us to do so.

So you are the one trying to interfere and change nature and doing so on the proven flawed premise that you are doing the animal any good.

So again I maintain the animal does not want your protection or imposed morals in their life. They want their chance at life. And the fact that you don't like humans being the natural end to their lives and think that should be stopped but you are ok with the wolf ending it is a meaningless distinction to the deer. Again regardless of who the predator is at the end of its life, it still wanted the chance to live.

Selfish, stupid vegans would deny it that chance based on indefensible and flawed emotive logic.
 
Not reading either mini novel thru but seeing your first lines I'll point out it's a straw man to argue from the point that assumes someone who does eat meat is not also against factory farm conditions.
You can't even read the article. No point in wasting my time with you any further.
 
You can't even read the article. No point in wasting my time with you any further.
Don't need to waste my time with strawman articles. You don't need to be vegan to be against factory farms. Pointing at bad factory farms does NOTHING to further the vegan argument.
 
If such laws get passed, I'll guarantee that Asians will surpass Hispanics in state pens. Prison pop. will be a majority of blacks and Asians.
 
You'll keep getting the same because you can never answer it.

Man is naturally part of the predation cycle of animals.

It is nature and natural for us to do so.

So you are the one trying to interfere and change nature and doing so on the proven flawed premise that you are doing the animal any good.

So again I maintain the animal does not want your protection or imposed morals in their life. They want their chance at life. And the fact that you don't like humans being the natural end to their lives and think that should be stopped but you are ok with the wolf ending it is a meaningless distinction to the deer. Again regardless of who the predator is at the end of its life, it still wanted the chance to live.

Selfish, stupid vegans would deny it that chance based on indefensible and flawed emotive logic.

Among other things it's also part of nature to kill your own children or your rivals children and forcefully copulate with whatever female or infant takes your fancy but we came to understand that sort of behaviour just isn't acceptable and isn't conducive in our evolution towards becoming a truly compassionate species. Sadly there is no shortage of delusional cretins such as yourself who like to take that one single aspect of animal behaviour, the whole "oh but animals eat each other thing" as though it is a valid justification for us to continue doing so. At one point eating animals may have been necessary for human survival but that is no longer the case and as the saying goes
"When you start with a necessary evil, and then over time the necessity passes away, what's left?"

And with that, we are well and truly done.
 

ramirez_146.jpg

 
Completely agree TS, just thinking about this the other day
 
I say no. I would agree with harsher penalties for child abuse though.
 
Among other things it's also part of nature to kill your own children or your rivals children and forcefully copulate with whatever female or infant takes your fancy but we came to understand that sort of behaviour just isn't acceptable and isn't conducive in our evolution towards becoming a truly compassionate species. Sadly there is no shortage of delusional cretins such as yourself who like to take that one single aspect of animal behaviour, the whole "oh but animals eat each other thing" as though it is a valid justification for us to continue doing so. At one point eating animals may have been necessary for human survival but that is no longer the case and as the saying goes
"When you start with a necessary evil, and then over time the necessity passes away, what's left?"

And with that, we are well and truly done.
Another strawman.

Killing ones children is an aberration in nature amongst almost all species and in almost all instances outside a few.

Man being a predator is as natural as a wolf being a predator.

The only reason you disagree with one and not the other is due to false misplaced human morality that means nothing to the deer.

we get it, you vegan freaks don't like it. You guys anthropomorphize animals and based on that you wrap a false and wrong headed moralization that is easy to expose, around it.
 
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