buvaisar saitiev

[Rico]

Wow. I would spend some time looking at how guys like Eddie Cummings finish heel hooks.

I'm gonna take the high road from this point with @flikerstance and offer him some tech vids that he might be able to garner something from. Parts of these are diff leg entanglements than he was in there but the finishing mechanics are basically the same.







As a heel hook guy myself, the bridge movement (which is pretty similar to finishing an armbar imo) is much more successful for me as compared to the rotating the torso finish.

 

[Dirty Holt]

Yeah, Smith and Belaglasov were beautiful wrestlers. Does Taymazov's PED DQ affect your view of him as an all time great?

Yea, it does. He looked like a fucking bodybuilder in a weight class where strength is a huge premium. I would bet a lot of his competitors were also using drugs, but for me it kind of puts him in the back seat to a guy like Satiev. What do you think?

 

[Uchi Mata]

Yea, it does. He looked like a fucking bodybuilder in a weight class where strength is a huge premium. I would bet a lot of his competitors were also using drugs, but for me it kind of puts him in the back seat to a guy like Satiev. What do you think?

I'm a guy who prefers the smoothest possible technique, which is why I love guys like Saitiev and Smith. Not that they weren't physical or that Taymazov wasn't technical, but I don't think Smith won many matches because he was stronger than his opposition. To me, using PEDs means you're investing in the wrong place, that you're approaching the sport in a different way than I prefer. It's really just a preference though, even guys who aren't juiced who rely on physicality over technique are not my cup of tea though I certainly acknowledge that for any given athlete it may be the best way for them to win. And in any case, if you have guys with equal accomplishments and one was a proven cheater that's certainly going to put him on a lower rung of the pedestal.

 

[Uchi Mata]

A bit unfair to compare champions of very different eras, and therefore very different testing regimens, by the vector of proven PED use?

I suppose Smith or Saitiev could have been on PEDs, but neither were physical freaks or relied overmuch on physicality to beat people. And there was certainly testing in their eras, though neither the testing nor the drug protocols themselves were as advanced as they are now for sure.

 

[Xuh]

Taymazov
Smith
Belaglasov

Not a fan of Inspector Clouseau?

 

[Uchi Mata]

I'm gonna take the high road from this point with @flikerstance and offer him some tech vids that he might be able to garner something from. Parts of these are diff leg entanglements than he was in there but the finishing mechanics are basically the same.







As a heel hook guy myself, the bridge movement (which is pretty similar to finishing an armbar imo) is much more successful for me as compared to the rotating the torso finish.

That's because rotating the torso is wrong. It. Is. Wrong. It facilitates the escape and doesn't secure the position through the torque. Fliker's opponent was hardly reminiscent of Rafa Mendes but even he knew enough to turn with the rotation as the torque was applied. A proper heel hook is done by securing the foot in such a position that the knee and ankle are vulnerable and then bridging into the knee to break. The grip basically just takes the slack out of the leg, the hands are relatively inactive in the finish. If you're turning towards the free leg when you finish, you are doing it wrong. You only turn that way briefly to expose the heel, and then you turn back towards the outside to finish. The inside heel hook is a little different, but the principle is the same: it's not a rotation to finish.

 

[Rico]

That's because rotating the torso is wrong. It. Is. Wrong. It facilitates the escape and doesn't secure the position through the torque. Fliker's opponent was hardly reminiscent of Rafa Mendes but even he knew enough to turn with the rotation as the torque was applied. A proper heel hook is done by securing the foot in such a position that the knee and ankle are vulnerable and then bridging into the knee to break. The grip basically just takes the slack out of the leg, the hands are relatively inactive in the finish. If you're turning towards the free leg when you finish, you are doing it wrong. You only turn that way briefly to expose the heel, and then you turn back towards the outside to finish. The inside heel hook is a little different, but the principle is the same: it's not a rotation to finish.

Not to derail this thread any further but I obviously totally agree. My philosophy is usually to secure a dominant leg entanglement, isolate and secure the ankle/foot then bridge to finish...in that order. I see so many guys just get a hold of a leg and start twisting (see this with the kimura too which is another guilty pleasure of mine) with no thought to control or anything of the sort. Even experienced guys too. The DDS guys have brought light to the leglock game so there's been some growth from a meta POV as of late. I'm hoping that trend continues.

 

[Uchi Mata]

Not to derail this thread any further but I obviously totally agree. My philosophy is usually to secure a dominant leg entanglement, isolate and secure the ankle/foot then bridge to finish...in that order. I see so many guys just get a hold of a leg and start twisting (see this with the kimura too which is another guilty pleasure of mine) with no thought to control or anything of the sort. Even experienced guys too. The DDS guys have brought light to the leglock game so there's been some growth from a meta POV as of late. I'm hoping that trend continues.

I hope so too. For one thing, doing it the DDS way results in far fewer injuries. I'd say I go for fewer heel hooks since I learned how to do it right, but my finishing rate is much higher. No one should be just grabbing a foot and ripping any more than they'd throw a guillotine by just grabbing around a guy's neck and squeezing. Technique advances, get on the bus people.

 

[Junior Skilo]

Taymazov
Smith
Belaglasov

Thanks Holt.. Never heard of Sergei Beloglazov until today... Checked him out on the tube

They talk about dirty technique... This guy was PURE FILTH!!!

Guys, this makes me wonder,,, Who else is part of the Freestyle upper echelon in terms of pure technique?.. Not concerned about medals.. Just your opinions on the most technical freestyle wrestlers

 

[Uchi Mata]

Thanks Holt.. Never heard of Sergei Beloglazov until today... Checked him out on the tube

They talk about dirty technique... This guy was PURE FILTH!!!

Guys, this makes me wonder,,, Who else is part of the Freestyle upper echelon in terms of pure technique?.. Not concerned about medals.. Just your opinions on the most technical freestyle wrestlers

Neither are in the GOAT conversation, but two guys whose technique I always really liked are Elbrus Tedeev and Mavlet Batirov:





And yes, Belaglazov was amazing. He has a ton of instructionals for free on YouTube as well if you're into that sort of thing.

Also, if you're into weird styles (which I am), don't sleep on Adam Saitiev. Not as accomplished as his brother but very fun to watch. Doesn't shoot much, mostly an upper body guy but amazing balance and flexibility (must run in the family).

 

[MoreKane]

how well would he of done in freestyle?

 

[Daniel Fox]

Yea, it does. He looked like a fucking bodybuilder in a weight class where strength is a huge premium. I would bet a lot of his competitors were also using drugs, but for me it kind of puts him in the back seat to a guy like Satiev. What do you think?

I am starting to think that at that high of a level you have people who get caught, and people who do not get caught. I think they are all pretty much using it. I have no reason to accuse Satiev of being a steroid user, but I would be more surprised if he was not.

 

[Junior Skilo]

Neither are in the GOAT conversation, but two guys whose technique I always really liked are Elbrus Tedeev and Mavlet Batirov:





And yes, Belaglazov was amazing. He has a ton of instructionals for free on YouTube as well if you're into that sort of thing.

Also, if you're into weird styles (which I am), don't sleep on Adam Saitiev. Not as accomplished as his brother but very fun to watch. Doesn't shoot much, mostly an upper body guy but amazing balance and flexibility (must run in the family).

Thanks.. Gonna scout Teedeev and A.Saitiev,,, @jack36767 mentioned Batirov in another thread not to long ago... Been studying him since.. Most definatly another master technician.. Love his use of footsweeps, how he changes levels off duck unders/throw bys and gets in on the feet... Also does this vicious whip like throw by:



Thing of beauty!

 

[Dirty Holt]

Thanks Holt.. Never heard of Sergei Beloglazov until today... Checked him out on the tube


They talk about dirty technique... This guy was PURE FILTH!!!

Guys, this makes me wonder,,, Who else is part of the Freestyle upper echelon in terms of pure technique?.. Not concerned about medals.. Just your opinions on the most technical freestyle wrestlers

Yowlys Bonne Rodriguez
Stephan Abas
Valentin Jordanov
Kendal Cross
Besik Kudukhov
Alireza Dabir
TAkahiro Wada
Elbrus Tedeev

 

[MoreKane]

Would you guys agree with the cliam that despite the physical advantages that men have over women especially at the elite level

the best female freestyle wrestlers would beat a prime Karelin in freestyle...Karelin was a greco wrestler of course

 

[Daniel Fox]

Would you guys agree with the cliam that despite the physical advantages that men have over women especially at the elite level

the best female freestyle wrestlers would beat a prime Karelin in freestyle...Karelin was a greco wrestler of course

First of all, Karelin was a Junior National Soviet Freestyle Champion so freestyle wrestling wasn't totally foreign to him. I do not want to sound sexist, I am just stating an obvious fact, women do not have anywhere near the strength of Men. I have trained with world class women wrestlers, and I would put their level at the level of a decent High school boys wrestler. An elite woman wrestler isn't anywhere close to the level of Alexandre Karelin even though his focus is primarily Greco.

 

[MoreKane]

First of all, Karelin was a Junior National Soviet Freestyle Champion so freestyle wrestling wasn't totally foreign to him. I do not want to sound sexist, I am just stating an obvious fact, women do not have anywhere near the strength of Men. I have trained with world class women wrestlers, and I would put their level at the level of a decent High school boys wrestler. An elite woman wrestler isn't anywhere close to the level of Alexandre Karelin even though his focus is primarily Greco.

So is high school the last level in which girls can compete evenly with boys in wresting until physical differences really start to separate

 

[Daniel Fox]

So is high school the last level in which girls can compete evenly with boys in wresting until physical differences really start to separate

Although it is the last level that Boys and girls will compete against each other, it has nothing to do with the fact that the reason why a World class Female Wrestler is at the level of a decent high school boy. It is 100% a physical difference, the Japanese Women wrestlers are very technical, yet they would lose convincingly to a mid level men's wrestler with lousy technique. Women and men are built differently, and although technique does play a huge part in wrestling, natural physical strength makes a big difference, and it is not just wrestling I am sure it is the same for Judo, and BJJ. Arguably the best female wrestler to come out of the United States is Helen Maroulis and she only placed 6th in the Maryland boys state championship (and honestly, that is a pretty amazing feat.).

 

[MoreKane]

Although it is the last level that Boys and girls will compete against each other, it has nothing to do with the fact that the reason why a World class Female Wrestler is at the level of a decent high school boy. It is 100% a physical difference, the Japanese Women wrestlers are very technical, yet they would lose convincingly to a mid level men's wrestler with lousy technique. Women and men are built differently, and although technique does play a huge part in wrestling, natural physical strength makes a big difference, and it is not just wrestling I am sure it is the same for Judo, and BJJ. Arguably the best female wrestler to come out of the United States is Helen Maroulis and she only placed 6th in the Maryland boys state championship (and honestly, that is a pretty amazing feat.).

Aren't elite women on average actually greater technical wrestlers then men

but like you said they would still lose to men because of their physical differences

do you think someone like Yoshida could at least still be competitive if she wrestled men?

 

[Daniel Fox]

Aren't elite women on average actually greater technical wrestlers then men

but like you said they would still lose to men because of their physical differences

do you think someone like Yoshida could at least still be competitive if she wrestled men?

Women wrestling is still a young sport, so in my opinion the technical level of the Woman right now is no where near the technical level of the men. Of the Women wrestlers I think the Japanese are the most technical. Yoshida would not be competitive against men.

The most dominant female athlete competing right now is probably Serena Williams, she was once asked how she would do against a number 200 ranked male tennis player, and she said she honestly did not know.