Being a reflex based fighter?

[Paradigm]

I agree with you. The Thais are excellent upper body wrestlers, and the original dirty boxers like Lindland and Randy were obviously exceptionally good upper body wrestlers. Nak Muay probably don't get the credit they should in the West for their upper body wrestling since so much of it looks odd as it occurs at a distance rather than in a chest to chest or head to head clinch (since they're looking to strike the positions they aim for are very different than a GR guy), but it's no easy task to get good upper body position on a skilled MT fighter.

I got clinched by an old Saekson a few months back and it was like a fucking vice grip.

Oh well, Westerners will eventually realize how good nakmuays are when they finally make their way over to high level MMA.

 

[The MM Analyst]

Yes, absolutely. That was what I was trying to say, sorry if I was unclear. I think a lot of pure MT strategies can work in spots in MMA, you just don't have people who A. have that skillset and B. want to fight that way. Most MMA in American implicitly comes from a wrestling/grappling or Dutch/K1 KB base, in the sense that most of the head coaches come from those disciplines and that's how they teach people to fight. I can't think of any prominent head coaches who have really deep traditional Muay Thai backgrounds (Rafael Cordeiro maybe?). The meta game just doesn't include much in the way of trad Nak Muay strategies, though I think that's probably just a matter of time. If I had to pick any area of MMA that I thought was ripe for serious change in how people approach it in the near future, it would be the clinch and I think the most likely direction of change is moving away from using such a wrestling focused clinch and using much more of a MT, striking oriented clinch.

Funny thing, the only guy I can think of who uses a pseudo-MT strategy consistently is a guy with as far as I know no traditional Muay Thai training: Jon Jones. Not saying he fights like a Nak Muay, but if you watch his game it's primarily kicks at distance, limited punching, lots of elbow, knees, and upper body throws from the clinch, and a long guard. The technical repertoire he uses is not MT at all but the notion of using your length to keep guys off you with kicks and a long guard and then instead of staying in punching range immediately closing the distance all the way to the clinch from which you strike and dump more so than wrestle is very much a MT strategy. Just a thought I've been kicking around.

Totally agree with this. Look at the amount of success RDA had against Tarec using (relatively poorly by Thai standards) a common thai clinch lock. He's probably the only fighter I've seen in MMA really use a clinch game that resembles true MT clinching, and he was able to control position on Tarec well and tee off with knees. It's a new development in his game too, I haven't seen it before this fight. MT clinching techniques/tactics are an almost untapped resource for development.

As for distance striking, Masvidal has a lot of true MT inspiration in his game. Thai hops, front leg teeps, one of the best kick-catchers in MMA, flicking the front leg up to enter and feint teeps, and he combines clinch entries with his striking very well.

 

[Uchi Mata]

Totally agree with this. Look at the amount of success RDA had against Tarec using (relatively poorly by Thai standards) a common thai clinch lock. He's probably the only fighter I've seen in MMA really use a clinch game that resembles true MT clinching, and he was able to control position on Tarec well and tee off with knees. It's a new development in his game too, I haven't seen it before this fight. MT clinching techniques/tactics are an almost untapped resource for development.

As for distance striking, Masvidal has a lot of true MT inspiration in his game. Thai hops, front leg teeps, one of the best kick-catchers in MMA, flicking the front leg up to enter and feint teeps, and he combines clinch entries with his striking very well.

Someone else I should mention, Rory MacDonald actually does some pretty straight MT stuff in the clinch and uses elbows in the clinch and up against the fence in a way few other fighters do. Which makes sense when you consider that Firas spent time training under Sagat and has brought a number of MT-esque moves into MMA, e.g. the superman punch.

 

[ssullivan80]

Someone else I should mention, Rory MacDonald actually does some pretty straight MT stuff in the clinch and uses elbows in the clinch and up against the fence in a way few other fighters do. Which makes sense when you consider that Firas spent time training under Sagat and has brought a number of MT-esque moves into MMA, e.g. the superman punch.

I am surprised nobody has mentioned Matt Brown in this conversation. IMO, he has one of the very best offensive clinches in MMA.

 

[Paradigm]

Totally agree with this. Look at the amount of success RDA had against Tarec using (relatively poorly by Thai standards) a common thai clinch lock. He's probably the only fighter I've seen in MMA really use a clinch game that resembles true MT clinching, and he was able to control position on Tarec well and tee off with knees. It's a new development in his game too, I haven't seen it before this fight. MT clinching techniques/tactics are an almost untapped resource for development.

As for distance striking, Masvidal has a lot of true MT inspiration in his game. Thai hops, front leg teeps, one of the best kick-catchers in MMA, flicking the front leg up to enter and feint teeps, and he combines clinch entries with his striking very well.

RDA trains with a ton of Thai talent over at Evolve.

I am surprised nobody has mentioned Matt Brown in this conversation. IMO, he has one of the very best offensive clinches in MMA.

I always mention Brown in the heavies for MT but probably the wrong place lol. He looks more "Muay Thai" to me than Anderson ever did.