A few questions after watching Mark Kerr doc "The Smashing Machine"

[Poirierfan]

That’s the LaserDisc. You can even see it printed on the disc in the picture.

Yeah, I wrote my post first then went and found a pic and added it to my post afterwards. Lol. It was so long ago I couldn't remember.

 

[TheMMAnalyst]

I guess. I mean hindsight is 20/20 and the difference between a "vet" and someone who's "washed" ultimately depends on whether they won or lost. Herring basically retired after the Lesnar fight, the two additional fights came years later. Before Lesnar he was at least good enough to have an even fight vs Kongo (whatever that's worth). Still, you can't say it's a weak opponent for someone's third professional fight, it's HW so no one (except maybe prime Fedor) is perfect. Couture definitely was declined but he still was the HW champ having won the belt fair and square so I don't know.

It's fair to say Lesnar got a quick path to the title, but I still think that if it was a more legit fighter without the ugly tattoos and the embarrassing WWE career his run would be viewed as legendary, more like Pereira's run to the title is viewed today. As it is now you can't shake the feeling that Lesnar's run reflected quite poorly on MMA as a whole. I 100% rooted for both Cain and Overeem vs Lesnar but I'm trying to be unbiased in my assessment of his career.

Being objective his best win was Mir, a few years removed from losing his leg almost and a B- athlete and Lesnar is an A+ athlete that outweighs him by 30+ lbs. Add in wrestling vs Bjj as the style matchup and it’s incredibly favorable.

Heath and Randy were legends but were old men with dozens of fights. Again they were smaller, worse athletes, and stylistically they couldn’t offer that much of a threat.

As soon as Lesnar fought guys close to his size/athleticism (Carwin, Cain , Overeem) that weren’t washed old men and offered better stylistic threats we saw his true ceiling.

Kerr never even got near the same heights but arguably deserved a DQ win against a prime Igor, which is arguably just as good a win as any of Lesnar’s (obviously winning by DQ shows his ceiling as well lol).

Lesnar is still one of the best late-stage prospects to ever fight and accomplished the most of any of them - isn’t that enough credit? I don’t feel a need to gaslight myself into believing he showcased layered MMA skills or he was crushing elite fighters in their prime.

This was heavyweight, the pool was shallow, he had the cheat code. Still gotta play the game to win though, so gotta give credit where credit is due.

 

[mkt]

I guess. I mean hindsight is 20/20 and the difference between a "vet" and someone who's "washed" ultimately depends on whether they won or lost. Herring basically retired after the Lesnar fight, the two additional fights came years later. Before Lesnar he was at least good enough to have an even fight vs Kongo (whatever that's worth). Still, you can't say it's a weak opponent for someone's third professional fight, it's HW so no one (except maybe prime Fedor) is perfect. Couture definitely was declined but he still was the HW champ having won the belt fair and square so I don't know.

It's fair to say Lesnar got a quick path to the title, but I still think that if it was a more legit fighter without the ugly tattoos and the embarrassing WWE career his run would be viewed as legendary, more like Pereira's run to the title is viewed today. As it is now you can't shake the feeling that Lesnar's run reflected quite poorly on MMA as a whole. I 100% rooted for both Cain and Overeem vs Lesnar but I'm trying to be unbiased in my assessment of his career.

Couture beat Tim Sylvia and Gonzaga (two much bigger, much younger, legit HWs at the time) just a year before he fought Lensar. He moved down to LHW a bit later and beat Brandon Vera and none other than Mark Coleman before retiring. Herring was only 31 when he fought Brock and as you said, beat another perennial UFC gatekeeper (and future Bellator HW champ) Kongo just before that. Herring had also beaten Kerr and Tom Erickson, giving him a "wrestler killer" reputation.

I don't think Herring was shot. He was a well-rounded, somewhat inconsistent fighter who wasn't elite in any one area (like great submissions, massive KO power, D1 wrestling) and never could beat the best fighters. I also think Mir (in both fights) was about as good as ever. I'd like to believe pre-motorcycle crash Mir was a different beast, but that early beating he took from Ian Freeman (before the crash) showed he was always susceptible to a GnP beatdown if he couldn't get a sub (exactly what happened in Lesnar-Mir 2).

BTW, here's Kerr vs. Dwayne Cason in UFC 15. Apparently Cason was also a wrestler. He was only 20 years old and never fought again. He might have been a good MW or LHW back then, but DANG the size difference. He tapped before Kerr really sunk in the RNC.

 

[TriangleMonkey]

I was a teenager watching Mark smash

I grew to only watch him get smashed by guys like Tracy Willis live and the final King Mo slam live


Its like that time I watched Pat Smith get carted off in a stretcher against some no-name in Oklahoma


Watching the old UFC dudes die off is pretty sad

 

[ricksons armbar**]

I last watched it a while ago. But I have seen it a few times.

The overall impression I got was that she was fucking awful.

I had the DVD and they had a commentary. The filmmakers said it was very uncomfortable with her there. No one in the documentary had much good to say.

I don’t think Igor was injured severely by those knees. Fuck knows how.

igor is a freakin tank, thats how.

 

[legatoblues]

I ask because I was so surprised by them getting married, because it seemed like such a dysfunctional relationship and definitely NOT marriage material, so I'm very curious how that relationship turned out.

That's the sad thing about dysfunctional/abusive relationships, they often turn to marriage as if it's some kind of magic solution to their problems. It happens way more than you might think.

 

[Local Plata]

There was a cool mini follow up I saw on youtube. He was clean, selling used cars, raising his son, but obviously bummed he isn't involved on the sport side.

 

[Levi_]

Seems to be doing a lot better these days. He got remarried fairly recently. Hopefully, the Rock paid him some $$$ for the smashing machine rights

Damn! Look what the smashing machine is smashing!

 

[JakePaulMMA]

back in my younger days, i shared a similar nickname.

The priests still miss you.

 

[Frank Kain]

This brings back some memories. Some thing that always sticks with me about that documentary is that Kerry’s weapons got taken from him. Being able to knee and head butt was devastating…and that went away. The current rule set really rewards strikers more than grapplers, in the effort to make the fights more exciting. Far from the NHB days.

 

[HHJ]

Just got through watching the old documentary about Mark Kerr "The Smashing Machine" and at the end of the film they say he and his gf ended up getting married, does anyone know what became of that relationship? Are they still together? I ask because I was so surprised by them getting married, because it seemed like such a dysfunctional relationship and definitely NOT marriage material, so I'm very curious how that relationship turned out.

And the other thing I wanted to ask is did Vovchanchyn suffer any kind of injury from those knees he took from Coleman in the final? Those were some of the nastiest strikes I've ever seen in MMA, I'd be surprised if he didn't end up with some kinda skull fracture.

Igor was fine. That guy is made of different stuff. Both he and Fujita ate those piston knees and just shrugged it off.

 

[HHJ]

She said something that was pure evil.

He was laid up in the hospital,and she said "well,if he gets clean,will he still want me anymore??"

 

[Randy Fandy Fo Fanders]

The priests still miss you.

Not as much as your mom. And dad.

They still send me a Christmas card every year.

 

[JPW328]

The movie was a huge wake up call. Very powerful and important stuff.

Young athletes don’t think about long term health

 

[JPW328]

This brings back some memories. Some thing that always sticks with me about that documentary is that Kerry’s weapons got taken from him. Being able to knee and head butt was devastating…and that went away. The current rule set really rewards strikers more than grapplers, in the effort to make the fights more exciting. Far from the NHB days.

Even worse with Strikeforce and PFL not allowing ELBOWS. They are forcing the fighters to punch and make space for a scramble. With headbutts, knees, and elbows you can really hold and SMASH someone

 

[HHJ]

Even worse with Strikeforce and PFL not allowing ELBOWS. They are forcing the fighters to punch and make space for a scramble. With headbutts, knees, and elbows you can really hold and SMASH someone

Yeah

UFC has had elbows forever,and it really HASNT ruined anything on a large scale.

Didnt Nate Marquardt use elbows to beat Woodley in Strikeforce tho?

 

[Levi_]

The movie was a huge wake up call. Very powerful and important stuff.

Young athletes don’t think about long term health
View attachment 1022012

If they really thought about long term health, few wouldn't be fighters, or at least they would retire if they started taking as lot of damage.

 

[Billthebutcher]

Wait for the Rock's Kerr movie to find out.

 

[JPW328]

Yeah

UFC has had elbows forever,and it really HASNT ruined anything on a large scale.

Didnt Nate Marquardt use elbows to beat Woodley in Strikeforce tho?

I believe the last year of Strikeforce under Zuffa they were allowed Elbows.

I believe it started with the Diaz Daley event , I remember Gilbert saying “see what I can do when you let me use elbows”