3D printed Gun restrictions lifted per DOJ ruling.

[Jorge Luis Borges]

I know what an 80% receiver is intended to eventually be used for . . . that still doesn't change the fact that at the time of purchase it is NOT a firearm.

So now we're going to conduct background checks based on intent to use a product?

What about a solid block of aluminum that could potentially be milled into a receiver?

I'd support background checks on items that can only, and relatively easily, be used to construct a firearm. If you buy an 80% receiver, I am not being unreasonable when I assume you will use that to build a complete firearm. I would not support background checks on everything that could potentially be rendered into a weapon.

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

No, I feel pretty good about it.

Just because you can make something at home, does not mean it should be legal. I do not believe it should be legal to build firearms at home.

Why shouldn't it be legal? Someone building a firearm in their own home is not causing any damages to anyone else, nor interfering with anyone else's lives.

I won't hear any arguments about "potential future" dangers. We reject the notion of prior restraint in the United States.

I do not think you should be able to buy 80% receivers without a background check.

Then I'll just buy 79.99% lower receivers.

Those who would seek Liberty are always a step ahead of those who would seek regulation.

With that in mind, how far are you actually willing to go with this?

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Im still waiting for a reason showing that more guns=good. An the point someone made about an individual making meth went over your head.

Whether or not guns are good is a different can of worms and a much broader argument than this thread is focused on. I think the meth comparison was inapt.

 

[spamking]

Im still waiting for a reason showing that more guns=good. An the point someone made about an individual making meth went over your head.

Why do you need a reason for me or anyone else choosing to buy more firearms?

I thought we're all expected to keep our nose out of peoples "bedrooms" or whatever . . . . now we're suddenly supposed to be okay with being told what we can or can't do in our own homes or workshops in this case?

I mean I get it . . . if I knew someone was abusing another person in the "privacy of their own home" I would do what I could to stop it. Finishing out an 80% lower or printing a gun or gun part is NOT that.

 

[JJSBUR]

I didn't realize 3d printers could use materials that would hold up to firing ammunition. I thought it was for semi-brittle plastics and such. Very interesting. I kind of want to buy one myself, but not for this. I could make custom r/c parts when I do bruder conversions.

They can print metal now. They can even print DNA now, it is getting scary that DNA can be done.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

We're not advocating for the removal of gun laws . . . well, except for that stupid NFA. That thing needs to die.

1. Aren't you in effect doing just that? Because guns constructed out of 80% receivers seem to skirt many gun control laws.

2. What in particular do you dislike about the NFA? I'm not entirely familiar with that law.

 

[spamking]

I'd support background checks on items that can only, and relatively easily, be used to construct a firearm. If you buy an 80% receiver, I am not being unreasonable when I assume you will use that to build a complete firearm. I would not support background checks on everything that could potentially be rendered into a weapon.

Wait. You'd be okay with checks on items other than lowers and 80% receivers? Like what? Why?

It's unreasonable to enforce a background check on something not classified as a serialized firearm.

 

[Ruprecht]

I replied to this in the "phone gun" thread.
They are just zip guns. That's why he moved on to other things.
There's been zip gun instructions available forever from publishers like Loompanics and Paladin Press.
Now that those publishers are out of business (simply due to the impact of the internet on publishing) it's just self published online.
Luty faced a similar thing in the UK with his, "Expedient Homemade Firearms" instructions for making an open bolt submachine gun.
I figure the reason this generated such a response was the original story was caught up in the hype about 3D printing and panicked people.

 

[Farmer Br0wn]

I'd prefer to go the CNC machine route myself . . . maybe one day.

Mr. Wilson has the product for you.

It's a fully programmed CNC mill that will finish 80% lower receivers for AR-15, and 1911's.

We certainly live in some very interesting times.

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Wait. You'd be okay with checks on items other than lowers and 80% receivers? Like what? Why?

It's unreasonable to enforce a background check on something not classified as a serialized firearm.

I don't think it is unreasonable to enforce a background check on an item that can be quickly, easily, and only used to complete a firearm. I'm not sure I'd have a problem serializing these 80% lowers.

 

[BudKing8806]

Im still waiting for a reason showing that more guns=good. An the point someone made about an individual making meth went over your head.

I'm still waiting for a reason showing that more guns=bad.

 

[spamking]

1. Aren't you in effect doing just that? Because guns constructed out of 80% receivers seem to skirt many gun control laws.

Not at all . . . I have no problem with someone building something for personal use. It's illegal to complete an 80% lower for someone other than yourself. And you can't legally sell it after you complete it. If you decide to try and sell it it would need to be serialized and go through an FFL. Many states already require 80% lowers to become serialized after completion.

Homemade weapons also skirt laws . . .

2. What in particular do you dislike about the NFA? I'm not entirely familiar with that law.

The background check requirement for a suppressor . . . the $200 tax stamp . . . the line of thinking that a short-barreled rifle should be subjected to more restrictions and also require a $200 tax stamp.

So pretty much all of it.

 

[sub_thug]

I understand the point that you are making. What I see often, and strongly disagree with, is when people say something should be fine just because something similar already exists. My opinion, is that there should not be unregistered legal guns floating around. If my gun was used in a crime, the fact that it is registered to me would make tracking down the killer a whole lot easier.

There is a very good reason that gun registries shouldn't exist, IMO. Would you like to get into that debate?

Our rights cannot be fully explained in single sentences. Yes, we have freedom of speech. But that does not mean you can incite violence. We have the right to practice our religion, but that does not mean we can go in the middle of the street and commit a human sacrifice.

The 2nd Amendment has useful limitations. You have to be 18. That's not in the Constitution. You can't be a felon. That's not in the Constitution. I doubt very many people (although there definitely would be some) would say that a 10 year old should be able to go buy a gun because it's his right as an American.

I believe any law abiding citizen should be able to purchase and own a firearm. I do not believe any random person should able to print their own in their house.

You can't incite violence, but you can use dangerous speech. A child can't buy a weapon, but a child can own and carry certain weapons. A religious person can't commit a human sacrifice because it violates the sacrificed's rights, but religious animal sacrifices have been ruled as Constitutionally-protected forms of expression before.

For what it's worth, I'm not saying that there should be no gun control at all, although I find modern attitudes to be concerning (I find speech restrictions and privacy erosion to be equally concerning, for what it's worth). I just find further encroachment onto the right to be a bad idea, and I think allowing private citizens to be able to attain firearms without the express permission of the government to be a good thing.

 

[spamking]

I don't think it is unreasonable to enforce a background check on an item that can be quickly, easily, and only used to complete a firearm. I'm not sure I'd have a problem serializing these 80% lowers.

Agree to disagree . . . requiring a background check on something that "might" be used as a part to complete a firearm is definitely unreasonable to me.

Heck, I disagree with requiring them for a personal transaction where a firearm is sold or changes hands.

 

[AndroidRage]

I didn't realize 3d printers could use materials that would hold up to firing ammunition. I thought it was for semi-brittle plastics and such. Very interesting. I kind of want to buy one myself, but not for this. I could make custom r/c parts when I do bruder conversions.

I wouldn't trust it. Be worried it would blow up in my hand.

 

[Ruprecht]

They can print metal now. They can even print DNA now, it is getting scary that DNA can be done.

You can 3D print metal, but those printers are well out of the reach of enthusiasts.
It's also an incredibly expensive way to make a firearm.

 

[Gregolian]

I don’t know a lot about this 3D gun but my immediate response is that unregistered guns are a bad idea.

Pretty sure most guns in this country are considered "unregistered" already as we don't have a Federal registry of who owns what.

 

[JJSBUR]

You can 3D print metal, but those printers are well out of the reach of enthusiasts.
It's also an incredibly expensive way to make a firearm.

It is expensive but can be done. Fadec Turbo Props are soon to come online with printed core parts. You can get time on a printer locally but how slow the process is makes it a bit expensive but you can get shapes that are difficult or not doable on a live tool lathe.

 

[Gregolian]

2. What in particular do you dislike about the NFA? I'm not entirely familiar with that law.

You didn't ask me but these things:

Ignore the suppressors for a moment. Of those guns, which ones are regulated by the NFA would you say?

All of them?

*Buzz* WRONG ANSWER! Just the bottom two as the top one has a pistol brace which according to BATF is now considered just a firearm and not an SBR... but according BATF you ARE allowed to shoulder the brace..... sssssssoooooo... BATF... what's the fucking difference?

 

[Ruprecht]

It is expensive but can be done. Fadec Turbo Props are soon to come online with printed core parts. You can get time on a printer locally but how slow the process is makes it a bit expensive but you can get shapes that are difficult or not doable on a live tool lathe.

That's where they have a real application, in the construction of complex one piece or interlocked designs.
When this guy released the "Liberator" design the 3D printing hype was in full swing, and people thought they were going to be able to decentralise production and 3D print everthing.
The reality and limitations are much more apparent now.