Zuffa fighters and the myth of a union.

[The guest]

There are probably other threads on the topic. But I dont want this post buried on page 3, or some shit. And have nobody ever actually see it. It's an important issue that I see raised here quite often.

There are links within the link I've provided that link to IRS laws. In other words, US law. It's not just conjecture, or guess work on my part. And its not Wikipedia level legitimacy.

Zuffa fighters are independent contractors, and not employees, right ?

• UNION – Independent contractors are ineligible to be represented by a union.

https://vfxunion.org/employee-vs-independent-contractor/

They can refuse to work. They can even picket. But they can't form and be represented by a union. They are not eligible for collective bargaining, or anything else that's union related.

It's baffling to me that Zuffa is as powerful as they are. Yet, alot of people don't seem to realize that you don't become rich and powerful in a business like this. Without knowing what the fuck you're doing. Same as the Conor debacle. These guys know exactly what they're doing at all times. And every move they make is for the benefit of Zuffa above all else.

According to the link. There is no way the fighters can be represented by a union.

Does anybody have evidence to contradict this ?

 

[Rittsy]

Couldn't they become employees?

And if not, therefore, couldn't they have more rights given to them since they aren't employees.

 

[The guest]

Couldn't they become employees?

And if not, therefore, couldn't they have more rights given to them since they aren't employees.

You don't just become an employee anywhere. And as each fighter is contracted right now. Why would Zuffa give up the power they have. That would be really stupid.

As a matter of fact. Independent contractors are not eligible for heath care benefits or many other things that employees are entitled to. Yet Zuffa voluntarily pay fighter's medical bills, etc.

 

[LouisBolanos]

Read/watch some of the interviews with Dodge coin Fitch/Bitter Le/Angry Quarry aka the legion of butthurt exes. One of the key items on their class-action agenda is to have independent contractor status reclassified as employees. The uniforms, press conference obligations, perpetual image rights etc. are all parts in support of their argument.

 

[DaveHilly]

Ok I get what you're saying, but if they organized couldn't they just make their first demand to be recognized as employees?

The fact that they are independent contractors has been a long maligned subject. There are very few independent contractors in this world who have the restrictions on "out of work" activities like these fighters do.

 

[The guest]

Read/watch some of the interviews with Dodge coin Fitch/Bitter Le/Angry Quarry aka the legion of butthurt exes. One of the key items on their class-action agenda is to have independent contractor status reclassified as employees. The uniforms, press conference obligations, perpetual image rights etc. are all parts in support of their argument.

Oh yeah I know all about it. But unless some court rules in their favour. They can't unionize. And right now they are independent contractors.

What may or may not happen in the future has no bearing on the situation today. And today they can't unionize.

I think it would be an uphill battle that the fighters won't win.

 

[DaGenius]

No point to crutch out on the technical term "union" as we all know independent contractors can't really do that.

Fighters can and will at some Point form a collective bargaining entity in order to get a guaranteed piece of the Mma financial pie


Moving on

 

[The guest]

Ok I get what you're saying, but if they organized couldn't they just make their first demand to be recognized as employees?

The fact that they are independent contractors has been a long maligned subject. There are very few independent contractors in this world who have the restrictions on "out of work" activities like these fighters do.

Nobody said it was fair. And I'm only the messenger. So, I'm not going to sit here and defend or advocate for anybody. I'm just explaining what the law says right now. And what it means of terms of what fighters can and can't do legally. I'm also not a labour lawyer.

If people have issues with this. Take it up with Zuffa. Because I have nothing to do with it.

 

[LouisBolanos]

Oh yeah I know all about it. But unless some court rules in their favour. They can't unionize. And right now they are independent contractors.

What may or may not happen in the future has no bearing on the situation today. And today they can't unionize.

I think it would be an uphill battle that the fighters won't win.

Yeah, it's going to be a drawn out process, with lots of bitterness, hatred, posturing, it's going to be an uphill battle which requires considerable investments, both financially and emotionally, and like you said, could very well end in complete failure for the fighters.

And I can't wait to savior the popcorn of it all! Y'all see how bitter doge coin Fitch and Mitrione are now? Imagine how bitter they'll get in 4 years when they've spent everything and done everything and the court rules in favor of the UFC and the status quo continues. It'd be worse than if Rousey loses to Holm a second time. It will be GLORIOUS!

 

[The guest]

No point to crutch out on the technical term "union" as we all know independent contractors can't really do that.

Fighters can and will at some Point form a collective bargaining entity in order to get a guaranteed piece of the Mma financial pie


Moving on

Without a court ruling though. Any organizing they do has no legal authority.

And the only way the fighters could ever put enough pressure on Zuffa would be for every fighter to refuse to work. I've maintained for a long time that I don't know if that'll ever happen.

It's one thing for a bunch of lower paid guys to walk out. But it would take ALL of the fighters to have any impact.

Pretty hard to just walk off the job when you're one of the elite making serious money. Because usually at the end of the day it's every man for themselves.

I'm not saying it'll never happen. But to have an " industrial action " would be very difficult. And if even a few of the stars refuse to walk. The fighters won't have any leverage.

 

[ilfirin]

 

[Mochan]

It's been what? 20 years? Fighters have a long way to go before they get this Union thing or whatever. Zuffa is too rich and too powerful. They would be better off forming a Resistance Movement than Union.

 

[Juventud]

And I can't wait to savior the popcorn of it all! Y'all see how bitter doge coin Fitch and Mitrione are now? Imagine how bitter they'll get in 4 years when they've spent everything and done everything and the court rules in favor of the UFC and the status quo continues. It'd be worse than if Rousey loses to Holm a second time. It will be GLORIOUS!

Why are you so happy at fighters being left with nothing?

You seem very happy that the UFC has the right to low ball average, mid-tier fighters pay? I think we all agree fighters should be paid more for the punishment they take.

 

[straight6]

Why are you so happy at fighters being left with nothing?

You seem very happy that the UFC has the right to low ball average, mid-tier fighters pay? I think we all agree fighters should be paid more for the punishment they take.

this is sherdog brah. most guys here are so emotionally invested in the brand and promoter they couldnt care less about the fighters.

Unlike all other sports, there are no real "fans" of the sport and the athletes in MMA. Most here are zuffa shills and want the promoter to be more silly rich while fighters get crap. its so sad to the pt its funny. Only in mma/ufc lol.

 

[LouisBolanos]

Why are you so happy at fighters being left with nothing?

You seem very happy that the UFC has the right to low ball average, mid-tier fighters pay? I think we all agree fighters should be paid more for the punishment they take.

If the UFC shared 40%-50% of its revenue with fighters, if the Reebok deal is beyond fair, if the uniforms are awesome, with tons of individuality, if fighters are allowed individual sponsors and have collective representation and negotiation power, and all changes have to be agreed upon by both sides, then everybody would be happy. Nobody would complain. There will be no more bitterness. The hundreds of articles in news media, thousands of threads on Sherdog, millions of posts on social media complaining, arguing, protesting against Dana White and the UFC will disappear, and the sport might as well be dead.

Conflict creates drama, it harbors hatred and bitterness, and those are what keeping the sport alive and exciting.

 

[ameeksingh]

 

[Sherm]

Without a court ruling though. Any organizing they do has no legal authority.

And the only way the fighters could ever put enough pressure on Zuffa would be for every fighter to refuse to work. I've maintained for a long time that I don't know if that'll ever happen.

It's one thing for a bunch of lower paid guys to walk out. But it would take ALL of the fighters to have any impact.

Pretty hard to just walk off the job when you're one of the elite making serious money. Because usually at the end of the day it's every man for themselves.

I'm not saying it'll never happen. But to have an " industrial action " would be very difficult. And if even a few of the stars refuse to walk. The fighters won't have any leverage.

I agree with you that the union thing is extremely unlikely to happen, even if they were able to somehow get reclassified. But at the same time, I don't think a union is completely necessary for fighters to claw back some of their power.

If you just got a handful of top ten guys in a single weight class to band together, they would have substantial leverage against the UFC, by threatening to go to Bellator together and do a 4 man tournament or some kind of round robin. Gilbert got a great deal mostly because at the time Bellator had a handful of other interesting lightweight fighters. This type of move wouldn't exactly change the world, but it could probably get a few guys twice as much money out of Zuffa.

It's not like football or basketball where you need to have literally hundreds of players to create a viable alternative league.

 

[Rittsy]

You don't just become an employee anywhere. And as each fighter is contracted right now. Why would Zuffa give up the power they have. That would be really stupid.

As a matter of fact. Independent contractors are not eligible for heath care benefits or many other things that employees are entitled to. Yet Zuffa voluntarily pay fighter's medical bills, etc.

Yeah. Thanks. I know you don't just become an employee. But considering the rules/regulations Zuffa have their independent contractors follow, couldn't a case be made that they were in fact employees?

 

[Coolidge]

Good.

Why are you so happy at fighters being left with nothing?

You seem very happy that the UFC has the right to low ball average, mid-tier fighters pay? I think we all agree fighters should be paid more for the punishment they take.

No, we don't all agree. That's the decision for the UFC to make. If a fighter doesn't like the pay, he can look for employment elsewhere. The fact that you think you're entitled to tell the UFC what their fighters should be making defies comprehension.

 

[whougonnacall]

If the UFC shared 40%-50% of its revenue with fighters, if the Reebok deal is beyond fair, if the uniforms are awesome, with tons of individuality, if fighters are allowed individual sponsors and have collective representation and negotiation power, and all changes have to be agreed upon by both sides, then everybody would be happy. Nobody would complain. There will be no more bitterness. The hundreds of articles in news media, thousands of threads on Sherdog, millions of posts on social media complaining, arguing, protesting against Dana White and the UFC will disappear, and the sport might as well be dead.

Conflict creates drama, it harbors hatred and bitterness, and those are what keeping the sport alive and exciting.

Nope