Your top reasons Hillary lost.

[Bald1]

I don’t give a fuck what camp you think I fall in. Especially people who fail to understand my views. And it wasn’t my first rodeo with heretic, who is regularly nasty.

If you don’t like my posting feel free to ignore but I’m not interesting in your views about my style.

Lol. Yup, no clue.

 

[kpt018]

Can't say I'm impartial on Clintont, that's true. Once again, personality clashes/conflicts, or anything related is a real thing.

And lets not pretend you're impartial, or can even spell that word when it comes to Hillary. You're her #1 blind defender on this site. To illustrate - how was Heretics post in any way hostile, and warranting kpt018 calling him a dummy? Not like that word is a huge insult or anything, but it shows a certain contempt and smugness.

It’s more than one post. I already told you it’s not my first rodeo with him. And your defense of him is really telling. I mean, I don’t recall you coming to my defense when personally attacked by the right.

 

[kpt018]

Lol. Yup, no clue.

Glad you came around to your self realization.

 

[waiguoren]

None of that explains why though, maybe expand on it. What changed? That’s the discussion.

I thought that part was obvious.

Trump has been consistently protectionist/mercantalist since at least the 1980s. Those rustbelt people are mostly old factory workers and their offspring. They eat that shit up.

On the other hand you have NAFTA/TPP-loving, "I dream of a hemispheric free-trade zone with no borders" Hillary Clinton. The choice was obvious.

Bernie Sanders, who I can't stand, would have whipped Trump's ass.

 

[Bald1]

It’s more than one post. I already told you it’s not my first rodeo with him. And your defense of him is really telling. I mean, I don’t recall you coming to my defense when personally attacked by the right.

In a thread about why Clinton lost I thought it germaine to the conversation to point out her smugness and that of her supporters.

Did not know your position, so I apologize for the assumption. However your comment seemed right in line with many of her backers. "Only idiots would vote Trump" type of posts, where the poster is comically self unaware of how counterproductive they're being to their cause.

Hope that cleared things up a bit.

 

[kpt018]

I thought that part was obvious.

Trump has been consistently protectionist/mercantalist since at least the 1980s. Those rustbelt people are mostly old factory workers and their offspring. They eat that shit up.

On the other hand you have NAFTA/TPP-loving, "I dream of a hemispheric free-trade zone with no borders" Hillary Clinton. The choice was obvious.

Bernie Sanders, who I can't stand, would have whipped Trump's ass.

I think that’s a good take but incomplete. Folks in the rust belt are also mad at coastal elites, particularly liberals and Trump stoked that anger like throwing gasoline on a fire.

It’s also plainly true that painting Hillary as a criminal throughout the campaign plus the timing of the Comey letter had an impact.

Hillary also made bad strategic decisions in the rust belt (failed to campaign there at crucial point in the campaign).

 

[HereticBD]

I don’t give a fuck what camp you think I fall in. Especially people who fail to understand my views. And it wasn’t my first rodeo with heretic, who is regularly nasty.

If you don’t like my posting feel free to ignore but I’m not interesting in your views about my style.

LOL. Do you need a tissue? That whole "Stop Using The Term 'Collusion'" embarrassment of a thread, must've really gotten to you. You know, that thread where nobody, including your own echo chamber, just "couldn't understand your views".

People understand your views just fine. You clearly can't handle people disagreeing with them, and calling them out for being stupid, when they are in fact stupid.

Stay in your safe space, bud. It's dangerous outside of the bubble.

 

[kpt018]

In a thread about why Clinton lost I thought it germaine to the conversation to point out her smugness and that of her supporters.

Did not know your position, so I apologize for the assumption. However your comment seemed right in line with many of her backers. "Only idiots would vote Trump" type of posts, where the poster is comically self unaware of how counterproductive they're being to their cause.

Hope that cleared things up a bit.

Well then it’s fair to point out that voting against smug liberals (which I agree, hostility towards liberals was a factor) is a ridiculous reason to vote for someone. I can’t come off I a way you’ll like because that rationale is so bad. I mean, does fucking policy matter? Experience? Intelligence? No, I just hate her!

It’s hard to criticize that without appearing smug.

 

[Pickle Rick]

Tell people how she lost?
you mean other than the russians invading facebook with trolls and all other social media in america like 4chan etc.. fueling epic shitposters and racists to slime themselves out of the sewers and vote in record numbers? Wikileaks knowingly talking to Trump Jr for over a year and using their influence?


Let me be clear.. I didn't care for Clinton either she was a bitchy old woman trying to "win" using all her wall st and washington connections

I guess i felt when it came to Americans we always stood on the side of:

"Any interference from an outside country (esp Russia) would be taken like an attack on our country and way of life"

what actually happened was "well i really dont want a woman president and trump says great things he uses all the best words blah blah blah " and promised every poor redneck racist in kentucky mississippi michigan and all the coal miners better jobs and strippers and free education at trump university and a lifetime subscription to trump steaks and the stupid idiots bought that nonsense hook line and sinker


it was sorta like having to choose between a giant douche and a turd sandwich

 

[kpt018]

LOL. Do you need a tissue? That whole "Stop Using The Term 'Collusion'" embarrassment of a thread, must've really gotten to you. You know, that thread where nobody, including your own echo chamber, just "couldn't understand your views".

People understand your views just fine. You clearly can't handle people disagreeing with them, and calling them out for being stupid, when they are in fact stupid.

Stay in your safe space, bud. It's dangerous outside of the bubble.

This is what I’m talking about. Bad logic and reasoning followed by an asshole personal attack post. You’re really a peach to discuss politics with.

Curious, why do you rock that AV? Is it your thing to be a brutal asshole?

 

[Trotsky]

Trump's was one of the most unlikely underdog victories in history and there's obviously countless theories out there. The question is what's yours?

The most obvious to me is she ran a horrible campaign. It was the nfl equivalent of running the prevent defense. Her campaign believed the hype that she had it wrapped up. Therefore the less you saw of her the better. She sat back, trying to let Trump bury himself but instead he out worked her bigly.

Lack of message. This goes hand in hand with running a shitty campaign but it's as if she had no platform or rationale for running.

The biggest reason outside of her control was Comey reopening the investigation into her. The timing couldn't have been worse. Trump was completely on the ropes with ask the pussy grabbing, accusations, etc and this gave him a lifeline. Also the fact that she was associated with that scoundrel Anthony wiener made it even worse.

Coming in very close behind that is that she ran a relatively close primary against a beloved figure in sanders, and there was the appearance and probably reality that sanders was screwed.

The black vote didn't show up for her. With suck close margins in key States This was critical. If they showed up in similar numbers to Obama she would be potus.


And in a year when being establishment is a negative she is the poster child for establishment politics.

That rounds out my list. What say you?

Yeah, your list pretty well hits all the bases. I would add decades of character assassination to the "reasons outside her control."

Also, the "prevent defense" is actually a top shelf analogy. She spent the entire election not taking a stand on anything besides the fact that Trump is an ass.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Can't say I'm impartial on Clintont, that's true. Once again, personality clashes/conflicts, or anything related is a real thing.

And lets not pretend you're impartial, or can even spell that word when it comes to Hillary. You're her #1 blind defender on this site. To illustrate - how was Heretics post in any way hostile, and warranting kpt018 calling him a dummy? Not like that word is a huge insult or anything, but it shows a certain contempt and smugness.

And here you're further demonstrating my point. Clinton was my second choice in the primary, and I criticized her a lot. It's only your extreme partiality that leads you to see a blind defender (and a general tendency for fanatics to see everything in black and white). So the bad take here is just dismissing the extreme ugliness on your own side and thinking that more mild disrespect toward the sources of that ugliness is offputting. I'm sure it is to you, but the ugliness is offputting to people it is directed toward.

 

[waiguoren]

None of that explains why though, maybe expand on it. What changed? That’s the discussion.

2012, Wisconsin: Democrat +7
2016, Wisconsin: Republican +1

8-point swing

2012, Michigan: Democrat +10
2016, Michigan: Tie

10-point swing

2012, Ohio: Democrat +3
2016, Ohio: Republican +8

11-point swing


Compare to swing states such as NC, FL, CO and you'll see that the real story lies in the rustbelt. Arguing about Comey, sexism blah blah is highly suggestive of tribalism.

It's like if the Golden State Warriors lost to a high school team by a penalty free throw in the 4th quarter, and the Warriors fans are arguing that the ref made the wrong call. Why is your team so close to losing to an amateur squad in the first place?


@Jack V Savage

 

[kpt018]

Yeah, your list pretty well hits all the bases. I would add decades of character assassination to the "reasons outside her control."

Also, the "prevent defense" is actually a top shelf analogy. She spent the entire election not taking a stand on anything besides the fact that Trump is an ass.

?

She had 1,000x more on policy detail and ideas than Trump. She took a pretty strong stand on all of them.

I’m not saying you have to like her takes but I think what you said is inaccurate.

 

[Pickle Rick]

This is what I’m talking about. Bad logic and reasoning followed by an asshole personal attack post. You’re really a peach to discuss politics with.

Curious, why do you rock that AV? Is it your thing to be a brutal asshole?

You basically described him in a nutshell
he is a self hating person and spreads his shitposting like a cancer..

 

[kpt018]

2012, Wisconsin: Democrat +7
2016, Wisconsin: Republican +1

8-point swing

2012, Michigan: Democrat +10
2016, Michigan: Tie

10-point swing

2012, Ohio: Democrat +3
2016, Ohio: Republican +8

11-point swing


Compare to swing states such as NC, FL, CO and you'll see that the real story lies in the rustbelt. Arguing about Comey, sexism blah blah is highly suggestive of tribalism.

It's like if the Golden State Warriors lost to a high school team by a penalty free throw in the 4th quarter, and the Warriors fans are arguing that the ref made the wrong call. Why is your team so close to losing to an amateur squad in the first place?


@Jack V Savage

Yes, we know the numbers but you’ve provided one explanation why it changed. I think it was accurate but there’s more to the story. Also not sure how my take on the comey letter is tribal. Did you see how people reacted to it?

 

[bowened]

Trump tapped into the same American pathos that Stone Cold Steve Austin did in the mid 90s. All that was missing was him hitting Hillary with a stone cold stunner and chugging some Coors.

 

[HereticBD]

This is what I’m talking about. Bad logic and reasoning followed by an asshole personal attack post. You’re really a peach to discuss politics with.

Translation:

I should get free reign to attack you without provocation, because you're in my head and I hate you so much. On that note, you should not attack me back, because my skin so thin, it's transparent. I just want to talk politics in mature fashion, bro. Now fuck off, you Briebart reading, Fox News watching, Trumpster.


You're such a joke.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

Can't say I'm impartial on Clintont, that's true. Once again, personality clashes/conflicts, or anything related is a real thing.

And lets not pretend you're impartial, or can even spell that word when it comes to Hillary. You're her #1 blind defender on this site. To illustrate - how was Heretics post in any way hostile, and warranting kpt018 calling him a dummy? Not like that word is a huge insult or anything, but it shows a certain contempt and smugness.

I'm loling at jack pulling this shit. When i brought up Hillarys other shit outside of the email scandal he dick tucked and pulled the gender card to excuse any of her past behavior and left the thread.

Thee fucking nerve. And this goes to show what a unequivocal shitty person she is when the retorts to her past and current behavior are "well yer a sexist/ right winger!'

 

[waiguoren]

I think that’s a good take but incomplete. Folks in the rust belt are also mad at coastal elites, particularly liberals and Trump stoked that anger like throwing gasoline on a fire.

Decent argument but I'm unconvinced. Under your explanation, we should have seen Trump overperform in the South, since Southerners bear the brunt of elite mockery. Instead, the opposite happened. Trump only barely overperformed Romney in the South.

It’s also plainly true that painting Hillary as a criminal throughout the campaign plus the timing of the Comey letter had an impact.

Why would rustbelt voters be disproportionately susceptible to this? These factors should have a national-level effect..

Hillary also made bad strategic decisions in the rust belt (failed to campaign there at crucial point in the campaign).

Absolutely, but it was probably too little, too late. She might have reclaimed Michigan but that would not have been enough. She needed all of PA, MI, WI to win.