Your opinion on the side stance in MMA?

[Bay Area]

haha.. but seriously.. can we get him out of here? this is my fav forum on sherdog. I hope it stay that way.

A troll can be refreshing at times. It lightens up the mood.

 

[Babba]

^very nice avatar. and yes, nidnoi hasn't broken any rules except being obnoxious. maybe a mod can give him a stern warning to simmer down.

nidnoi, it would be cool if you could give some technical analysis to back up your stance on the matter. you have a very set opinion, mind telling why?

 

[Tug]

^very nice avatar. and yes, nidnoi hasn't broken any rules except being obnoxious. maybe a mod can give him a stern warning to simmer down.

nidnoi, it would be cool if you could give some technical analysis to back up your stance on the matter. you have a very set opinion, mind telling why?

nice pun my man

 

[eseseses681]

Back to the topic, a side-on stance can leave you vulnerable to lateral-movement. It takes longer to turn when you're side-on, and a guy that can circle well benefits from that. See BJ Penn vs. Frankie Edgar.

 

[II Muchetto II]

Side stance is good but you are looking to get your leg kicked by a someone who has good muay thai, gunnar got his leg kicked constantly by story!

Also I think it does take away the use of your rear hand. But it does make you harder to hit and more able to dart in and out.

 

[a guy]

Side stance is good but you are looking to get your leg kicked by a someone who has good muay thai, gunnar got his leg kicked constantly by story!

Also I think it does take away the use of your rear hand. But it does make you harder to hit and more able to dart in and out.

Yea but as mentioned in this thread there are plenty of ways to defend those leg kicks, Rory takes pretty much everyone who throws them at him off their feet.

No way does it take away your rear hand, Rory has one of the best straight rights around, and 90% of both Gunnar and Machida's effective offense is with their rear hands.

 

[Jukai]

Takes away from rear hand?

 

[II Muchetto II]

Yea but as mentioned in this thread there are plenty of ways to defend those leg kicks, Rory takes pretty much everyone who throws them at him off their feet.

No way does it take away your rear hand, Rory has one of the best straight rights around, and 90% of both Gunnar and Machida's effective offense is with their rear hands.

Yeah your right, the straight right is probably the most common attack from someone who uses the side stance, but they don't tend to throw it from the stance, they open the body up so the can use they're hips, throwing a straight right from a side stance doesn't have as much power and without the hips it's shorter, that's why wonderboy, gunnar, page etc explode forward when they throw it.

 

[II Muchetto II]

Takes away from rear hand?

Well, they aren't in the side stance when the throw the straight rear hand in those clips.

I didn't mean people who use the side stance don't use the rear hand, of course they do, they use it really well, they just change stance to do it (most of the time)

 

[a guy]

Yeah your right, the straight right is probably the most common attack from someone who uses the side stance, but they don't tend to throw it from the stance, they open the body up so the can use they're hips, throwing a straight right from a side stance doesn't have as much power and without the hips it's shorter, that's why wonderboy, gunnar, page etc explode forward when they throw it.

Good point, they do have to externally rotate the lead foot to throw it if they want full range of motion, and sometimes they explode forward too.

 

[II Muchetto II]

Good point, they do have to externally rotate the lead foot to throw it if they want full range of motion, and sometimes they explode forward too.

Yeah, that's exactly what I ment, the way you have described it sounds better tho!!

I only mentioned the leg kicks too because I remember my first muay thai lesson after years of doing kickboxing, I decided to spar with my trusted side stance and I ended up struggling to walk the next day!!

 

[Discipulus]

Note that both Wonderboy and McGregor have to compromise themselves to reach the target with their rear hands in those examples. Both of them fall forward considerably.

 

[a guy]

Yeah, that's exactly what I ment, the way you have described it sounds better tho!!

I only mentioned the leg kicks too because I remember my first muay thai lesson after years of doing kickboxing, I decided to spar with my trusted side stance and I ended up struggling to walk the next day!!

Ha, yea it's something you have to learn to deal with. It's harder in muay thai because you're probably gonna be standing taller, and there isn't the same advantage with getting them off their feet. It's different in MMA, because if you land 20 leg kicks and I catch one, take you down in dramatic fashion and hold you there for the rest of the round 9 times out of 10 I'm gonna win. Plus your knees will likely be bent more and usually hands lower, meaning it's quicker to snatch that kick off your thigh.

 

[Fenderson]

The side stance doesn't reduce the effectiveness of the straight. Infact it allows more rotation of the hips, allowing for a more powerful shot. Do people really think that boxers would use a stance that would make one of the biggest weapons in boxing void?

 

[Azam]

Note that both Wonderboy and McGregor have to compromise themselves to reach the target with their rear hands in those examples. Both of them fall forward considerably.

What do you mean by that?

 

[Discipulus]

The side stance doesn't reduce the effectiveness of the straight. Infact it allows more rotation of the hips, allowing for a more powerful shot. Do people really think that boxers would use a stance that would make one of the biggest weapons in boxing void?

Most boxers don't stand so side on that their feet are in one line, which is what I understand a side stance to be. Like Wonderboy above, his feet are positioned as if riding a surf board.

If we're just talking about having the lead leg turned in, then that's workable, but not ideal for throwing the cross either.

 

[Discipulus]

What do you mean by that?

In order to fully rotate their hips and drive into the punch they both drag or step their rear foot forward. They have to square up to get the desired distance and power on the punch.

 

[flyingweelkick]

Most boxers don't stand so side on that their feet are in one line, which is what I understand a side stance to be. Like Wonderboy above, his feet are positioned as if riding a surf board.

If we're just talking about having the lead leg turned in, then that's workable, but not ideal for throwing the cross either.

This is also what I was thinking everyone was talking about - TKD/Karate style side-stance...guess I was wrong as well.

On topic: When only hands are involved it's natural to want to turn a little to protect your mid-section, extend that lead arm for range/distance and also load the rear for power. It's a viable strategy and I've sparred guys who do it effectively in boxing-only settings but there's always a trade-off. By extending that lead arm you get more range but you also reduce it's power, and you also reduce the speed of the rear straight since it's farther away. The basic 1-2 and 1-2-3 can't be peppered in during exchanges as quickly when you're sideways as when you square up IMO.

The big question here is - how does it affect your sprawl? If you can't sprawl as effectively it's definitely a risk you might not want to take considering the weight of top-position in modern MMA judging.

 

[flyingweelkick]

Also - I agree with Disciplus that it gets harder to firmly plant the rear foot on a rear straight the less square you are. Think about it: You're rear is facing AWAY from the target if you're in a side-stance. As you turn during the punch you naturally want to extend your rear side forward toward the target, usually lifting your foot up and loosing power. Versus if you're square and in range you simply need to plant your rear foot and rotate to reach full range/extension on the punch.

Though it does seem that some guys (like McGregor and Wonderboy as mentioned, also Machida) have managed to work enough body-dynamic into the punch to make it a very mean weapon. These guys also tend to bait their opponent in before they throw that straight so that's also probably adding a lot to the force (like a head on collision).

As far as boxers - I have seen guys with good flick-jabs make use of the side-stance.

 

[Azam]

In order to fully rotate their hips and drive into the punch they both drag or step their rear foot forward. They have to square up to get the desired distance and power on the punch.

I know that - but the way you were saying it was like it's a negative or disapproving. That's why I asked what do you mean by that for further clarification lol.