Yadong really sharp in training

[HuskySamoan]

How do you think this fight goes? you asked us, but didn't give your opinion . Also, where would you like to see the winner go after this fight?

Both these guys kinda haven't yet gotten over that hump from being just another top 10 guy to being seen as a serious contender. Yadong in my opinion hasn't really put his game together yet either and he's so young, this 6 months off could spell noticeable improvement. Neither dudes gone 5 rounds, their cardio is both good but who's better? I think Simon will do well enough standing, mix things up a lot and we gotta see how Yadong handles that. I think Simon edges a decision, i think Sadong is going to follow him and get taken down and struggle to find his rhythm a little too much.

If Simon wins this, he should get a top 5 guy, be it a number 1 contender bout or not he's only 1 or 2 wins away from a title shot with a win over Yadong. Yadong I'm not sure, he will be further away from a title with a win still, I wouldn't hate him vs Munhoz to build the young talent from China up, otherwise I'd like to see him vs another mover like a Javid, Umar, Omalley since we know that's something he struggles with. It's a good fight.

 

[drbolony]

Simon has be evolving since his loss to Faber years ago, and has looked phenomenal and strong as fuck as of late.

I think it will be a tough fight for both guys, but I think Simon wins via wrestling/grinding/GNP sir.

That move to Team Oyama turned him into a killer. He used to have the most robotic striking, definitely a product of being in a gym run by Chael. Loading up, very obvious with what he wanted to do, running into exchanges, super ploddy footwork.

Now he's working behind a jab, putting together better combinations, methodically working his way into punching range, feinting, moving laterally. He's a completely different dude, and it's helping him set up better TD's too, maximizing his strengths. Ricky went from one of those dudes I tuned in to watch get KO'd, to one of my favorites at BW.

He's a really good fighter, definitely more skilled than Song. That said, like @fortheo pointed out Yadong only needs one, he's super explosive and naturally athletic. The good thing for Simon is that Song only uses a few fight ending weapons, an over hand, a left hook, and a flying knee, from what I've seen.

Song loads up with everything, and these attacks already have tells when they are thrown naked (not working behind a jab), which Song tends to mitigate with his crazy speed/explosion. If Simon knows what to look for (pull backs, scoops, bracing legs) he could possibly draw these out with his feints and secure a takedown since Song loves to bang it out in close. Simon doesn't have the stance switching of someone like Corey, so he's going to want to really draw out these big attacks before he shoots.

I like Song too, but I think he's a pretty limited fighter. I'd like to see him work with more of a boxing trainer, if not a boxing coach, maybe a striking coach who teaches him to be more fluid and loose. He's already naturally powerful and athletic. He doesn't need to load up into all of his attacks. I think if he worked on this, BW would be a drop fest for Song. He has the kind of power to hold the KD record in his division. He's just too predictable.

Edit: lol I just realized that's fucking Lerdsila's gym in China. Holy shit, he's one of the most elusive guys in the history of Muay Thai, idk who he has coaching at his gym, bit you'd definitely think that would be the place for Song to patch up some of the holes in his striking.

 

[StonedLemur]

That move to Team Oyama turned him into a killer. He used to have the most robotic striking, definitely a product of being in a gym run by Chael. Loading up, very obvious with what he wanted to do, running into exchanges, super ploddy footwork.

Now he's working behind a jab, putting together better combinations, methodically working his way into punching range, feinting, moving laterally. He's a completely different dude, and it's helping him set up better TD's too, maximizing his strengths. Ricky went from one of those dudes I tuned in to watch get KO'd, to one of my favorites at BW.

He's a really good fighter, definitely more skilled than Song. That said, like @fortheo pointed out Yadong only needs one, he's super explosive and naturally athletic. The good thing for Simon is that Song only uses a few fight ending weapons, an over hand, a left hook, and a flying knee, from what I've seen.

Song loads up with everything, and these attacks already have tells when they are thrown naked (not working behind a jab), which Song tends to mitigate with his crazy speed/explosion. If Simon knows what to look for (pull backs, scoops, bracing legs) he could possibly draw these out with his feints and secure a takedown since Song loves to bang it out in close. Simon doesn't have the stance switching of someone like Corey, so he's going to want to really draw out these big attacks before he shoots.

I like Song too, but I think he's a pretty limited fighter. I'd like to see him work with more of a boxing trainer, if not a boxing coach, maybe a striking coach who teaches him to be more fluid and loose. He's already naturally powerful and athletic. He doesn't need to load up into all of his attacks. I think if he worked on this, BW would be a drop fest for Song. He has the kind of power to hold the KD record in his division. He's just too predictable.

I think Simon looked like a complete fighter his last time out.
He looked good on the feet and his wrestling looked real crisp.

Song is a dangerous fighter but I feel like Simon's wrestling is going to be the difference here.
If he doesn't finish it on the ground, then he will keep the pressure on Song's cardio and speed.

Its gonna be a hard fight for both guys like I've said but I think Simon has more tools tbf.

 

[drbolony]

I think Simon looked like a complete fighter his last time out.
He looked good on the feet and his wrestling looked real crisp.

Song is a dangerous fighter but I feel like Simon's wrestling is going to be the difference here.
If he doesn't finish it on the ground, then he will keep the pressure on Song's cardio and speed.

Its gonna be a hard fight for both guys like I've said but I think Simon has more tools tbf.

Absolutely man, that's how I see it playing out too. I was just explaining how Ricky gets to him.

I also went back and edited my post after realizing where Song is training at in that clip. That's fucking Lerdsila's Gym, dude came up with Saenchai and many people claim he's the superior fighter of the two. He's one of the most elusive fighters in the history of Muay Thai, you'd think this would be the right place for Song to learn not to put everything into every strike.

 

[StonedLemur]

Absolutely man, that's how I see it playing out too. I was just explaining how Ricky gets to him.

I also went back and edited my post after realizing where Song is training at in that clip. That's fucking Lerdsila's Gym, dude came up with Saenchai and many people claim he's the superior fighter of the two. He's one of the most elusive fighters in the history of Muay Thai, you'd think this would be the right place for Song to learn not to put everything into every strike.

Happens to a lot of these guys, where they realize how hard they hit and start to drink their own Kool aid.
I feel like if Song took 15-20% off each shot he'd be even more fluid tbh.

That's the part of Simon's game that I think he figured out over the last few years.
He's also made the change from striking to wrestling is damn near perfect.

 

[drbolony]

Happens to a lot of these guys, where they realize how hard they hit and start to drink their own Kool aid.
I feel like if Song took 15-20% off each shot he'd be even more fluid tbh.

That's the part of Simon's game that I think he figured out over the last few years.
He's also made the change from striking to wrestling is damn near perfect.

Agreed on song, he also needs to work on better combos.

Simon is just so fluid, and it's not only his striking, but his entire MMA game.

Edit: found this clip of Song, too bad he fights more like he does in the clip TS posted.

 

[HuskySamoan]

That move to Team Oyama turned him into a killer. He used to have the most robotic striking, definitely a product of being in a gym run by Chael. Loading up, very obvious with what he wanted to do, running into exchanges, super ploddy footwork.

Now he's working behind a jab, putting together better combinations, methodically working his way into punching range, feinting, moving laterally. He's a completely different dude, and it's helping him set up better TD's too, maximizing his strengths. Ricky went from one of those dudes I tuned in to watch get KO'd, to one of my favorites at BW.

He's a really good fighter, definitely more skilled than Song. That said, like @fortheo pointed out Yadong only needs one, he's super explosive and naturally athletic. The good thing for Simon is that Song only uses a few fight ending weapons, an over hand, a left hook, and a flying knee, from what I've seen.

Song loads up with everything, and these attacks already have tells when they are thrown naked (not working behind a jab), which Song tends to mitigate with his crazy speed/explosion. If Simon knows what to look for (pull backs, scoops, bracing legs) he could possibly draw these out with his feints and secure a takedown since Song loves to bang it out in close. Simon doesn't have the stance switching of someone like Corey, so he's going to want to really draw out these big attacks before he shoots.

I like Song too, but I think he's a pretty limited fighter. I'd like to see him work with more of a boxing trainer, if not a boxing coach, maybe a striking coach who teaches him to be more fluid and loose. He's already naturally powerful and athletic. He doesn't need to load up into all of his attacks. I think if he worked on this, BW would be a drop fest for Song. He has the kind of power to hold the KD record in his division. He's just too predictable.

Edit: lol I just realized that's fucking Lerdsila's gym in China. Holy shit, he's one of the most elusive guys in the history of Muay Thai, idk who he has coaching at his gym, bit you'd definitely think that would be the place for Song to patch up some of the holes in his striking.

Limited fighter, limited skillset is often how I describe Yadong, he's gotta either expand that which he does or deepen it by adding more nuance and tact, or both. He also reminds me a bit of Khamzat, he looks pretty technical on pads but gets very overaggressive and defensively open in fights too often striking...he's just got a granite chin.

I love that Yadong is training at Lerdsila's, I didn't notice that and I wonder if he gets in any work with Chinese boxers since they have some good ones at the lower weights be them amateur or pro, Yadong isn't a nobody when it comes to Chinese combat athletes. That said, it's going to take time and hyperfixation to realy change Yadong's striking when you consider he literally went to a school focusing on Sanda at age 9 and then transitioned to MMA at 13 and his pro debut at 15 in China. He's been striking like this forever and ironically his style has always been pretty TAM-esque so that just feels like the worst gym to change that. I'm not sure he will ever have quick feet though, we see it too much in boxing with your Ryan Garcia or Canelo Alvarez types, even Khabib in MMA quick hand speed but very slow, heavy legs. He can work more on cutting his opponents off which isn't just footwork but also a more active kicking game, utilizing a stiff jab and really he could just loosen up a little bit he's stiff as hell. He's so young I feel like he should get different looks on his off time, spend time at a boxing gym, with a karate team.

I am skeptical that Simon is better standing though, Yadong looked great for the first two rounds vs Sandhagen and while SImon looked great vs Shore his other opponents since the Faber/Font losses weren't very telling and he even disappointed me vs Borg. He looked phenomenal vs Shore, no doubt but Shore is still kind of an unproven prospect at this point too, his best win by far is Timur Valiev in a fairly competitive outing. I suspect this fight will be competitive enough to answer questions about both men but Yadong getting controlled by Stamann and Kyler Phillips scoring some takedowns is concerning since Simon I consider a better wrestler than both and a cardio dog and I do believe this a 5 round fight.

 

[StonedLemur]

Agreed on song, he also needs to work on better combos.

Simon is just so fluid, and it's not only his striking, but his entire MMA game.

Edit: found this clip of Song, too bad he fights more like he does in the clip TS posted.

Agreed on all counts sir.

 

[StonedLemur]

Limited fighter, limited skillset is often how I describe Yadong, he's gotta either expand that which he does or deepen it by adding more nuance and tact, or both. He also reminds me a bit of Khamzat, he looks pretty technical on pads but gets very overaggressive and defensively open in fights too often striking...he's just got a granite chin.

I love that Yadong is training at Lerdsila's, I didn't notice that and I wonder if he gets in any work with Chinese boxers since they have some good ones at the lower weights be them amateur or pro, Yadong isn't a nobody when it comes to Chinese combat athletes. That said, it's going to take time and hyperfixation to realy change Yadong's striking when you consider he literally went to a school focusing on Sanda at age 9 and then transitioned to MMA at 13 and his pro debut at 15 in China. He's been striking like this forever and ironically his style has always been pretty TAM-esque so that just feels like the worst gym to change that. I'm not sure he will ever have quick feet though, we see it too much in boxing with your Ryan Garcia or Canelo Alvarez types, even Khabib in MMA quick hand speed but very slow, heavy legs. He can work more on cutting his opponents off which isn't just footwork but also a more active kicking game, utilizing a stiff jab and really he could just loosen up a little bit he's stiff as hell. He's so young I feel like he should get different looks on his off time, spend time at a boxing gym, with a karate team.

I am skeptical that Simon is better standing though, Yadong looked great for the first two rounds vs Sandhagen and while SImon looked great vs Shore his other opponents since the Faber/Font losses weren't very telling and he even disappointed me vs Borg. He looked phenomenal vs Shore, no doubt but Shore is still kind of an unproven prospect at this point too, his best win by far is Timur Valiev in a fairly competitive outing. I suspect this fight will be competitive enough to answer questions about both men but Yadong getting controlled by Stamann and Kyler Phillips scoring some takedowns is concerning since Simon I consider a better wrestler than both and a cardio dog and I do believe this a 5 round fight.

I think Yadong is better on the feet, but Ricky has shown the ability to be fluid between standing and TDs.

Ricky has gotten better with his stand up over the last few years, Yadong had stood pretty stagnant tbh.
Him being stiff is a result of him trying to kill with every shot.

If he allowed himself to take it down a notch he would be so stiff, and he'd be able to run combinations.

 

[drbolony]

Limited fighter, limited skillset is often how I describe Yadong, he's gotta either expand that which he does or deepen it by adding more nuance and tact, or both. He also reminds me a bit of Khamzat, he looks pretty technical on pads but gets very overaggressive and defensively open in fights too often striking...he's just got a granite chin.

I love that Yadong is training at Lerdsila's, I didn't notice that and I wonder if he gets in any work with Chinese boxers since they have some good ones at the lower weights be them amateur or pro, Yadong isn't a nobody when it comes to Chinese combat athletes. That said, it's going to take time and hyperfixation to realy change Yadong's striking when you consider he literally went to a school focusing on Sanda at age 9 and then transitioned to MMA at 13 and his pro debut at 15 in China. He's been striking like this forever and ironically his style has always been pretty TAM-esque so that just feels like the worst gym to change that. I'm not sure he will ever have quick feet though, we see it too much in boxing with your Ryan Garcia or Canelo Alvarez types, even Khabib in MMA quick hand speed but very slow, heavy legs. He can work more on cutting his opponents off which isn't just footwork but also a more active kicking game, utilizing a stiff jab and really he could just loosen up a little bit he's stiff as hell. He's so young I feel like he should get different looks on his off time, spend time at a boxing gym, with a karate team.

I am skeptical that Simon is better standing though, Yadong looked great for the first two rounds vs Sandhagen and while SImon looked great vs Shore his other opponents since the Faber/Font losses weren't very telling and he even disappointed me vs Borg. He looked phenomenal vs Shore, no doubt but Shore is still kind of an unproven prospect at this point too, his best win by far is Timur Valiev in a fairly competitive outing. I suspect this fight will be competitive enough to answer questions about both men but Yadong getting controlled by Stamann and Kyler Phillips scoring some takedowns is concerning since Simon I consider a better wrestler than both and a cardio dog and I do believe this a 5 round fight.

Very limited, and the worst thing about it is that he doesn't look as limited in training. But when it's go time, he's got a few things he goes to over and over again. Idk what he needs exactly, because as you mentioned, he's been fighting like this forever. I was unaware of his Sanda background, holy shit you do some real deep dives on these dudes. That's some real journalism . You draw some great parallels with Khamzat. He looks like a killer in the training room, but like Song, he goes back to just a few weapons he's comfortable with when it's go time. Not to mention being completely open to counters. On the topic of fast feet, slow feet, don't forget big Andy Ruiz. Seems to be a staple of Canelo team.

Im obviously not a coach, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but from what I've seen of the pad work in Thailand, or just MT style padwork in general, they seem to drill pads the same for all fighters. I think some dedicated pad work would do Song some good, making the things he needs to bring to fight night second nature on the pads. I don't really see that in these training clips. Then again, he doesn't post full sessions and we don't have a complete inside look, I could be totally off base here.

As far as who's the better striker, Song by a mile based on what they both do in the training room. That said, based on what they both bring to fight night, I'd definitely say Simon is more effective, especially since his striking is more of a means to an end, rather than the bread and butter of his game like it is for Song. That said, I don't thing Ricky is levels above to the point where he can mitigate that huge gap in speed and power. Those physical traits are the great equalizer and what makes this fight interesting.

 

[Royce's Gi]

Ya dong is thick, solid, tight

 

[fortheo]

Do you guys think Simon will be able to hold song down for long periods of time? I know it was a while ago, but I just can't forget that Font, with a torn ACL, was able to keep simon off him for the vast majority of the fight and get up pretty quickly every time he was taken down. Either I'm underestimating Font's grappling, or simon's top control wasn't that good and will need to be better if he wants to hold song down for any significant amount of time.

 

[HuskySamoan]

Do you guys think Simon will be able to hold song down for long periods of time? I know it was a while ago, but I just can't forget that Font, with a torn ACL, was able to keep simon off him for the vast majority of the fight and get up pretty quickly every time he was taken down. Either I'm underestimating Font's grappling, or simon's top control wasn't that good and will need to be better if he wants to hold song down for any significant amount of time.

I'm not confident he's going to be able to hold Song down and dominate, I just think the takedowns to break the rhythm and as a safety plan if things get heated on the feet, edge rounds, dictate pace will be enough most likely to favor Simon. Kinda like @drbolony said, I feel Yadong is the better striker who ends up falling on bad habits and utilizing a limited skillset while Simon looked craftier vs Shore. Cardio will be a huge factor if it's 5 rounds.

Yadong has big KO power but doesn't set up his shots, it's kinda a tragedy.

 

[Oz.Pride]

There's better looking pad work on every street corner in every gym in thailand. His padwork looks professional but mid. UFC fans have too low of expectations when it comes to striking like Askren.

When Song does rhythm kicks he's lifting his foot too far off the ground which is beginner level. His elbow is not exactly turned in at the sharp point. One of the first switch-leg kicks he takes an unnecessary extra step. His switch knee had no power behind it. He's also bouncing a bit and wasted movement between his strikes sometimes. But he threw a lot of strikes in the video so this is all nit-picking.

If by pad work on every street corner you mean the midgets sparring on the roof of the bus with the boxing ropes set up on it and the speaker with "TOMORROW NIGHT TOMORROW NIGHT" then I'd have to disagree. Those guys are pretty sloppy

 

[MMAProfessional]

I know you're high on simon, but this is a tough fight. 25 minutes is a long time to avoid getting cracked by someone who hits as hard as Yadong. He also has pretty good tdd, a solid chin, and good conditioning. I'd be more confident in yadong if he had a good long range jab, or teep -- something long range to keep simon at distance -- but he doesn't usually fight that way and prefers to bang in the pocket, which might get him in trouble with a guy who wants to be close for wrestling. Or he might find Simon's chin.

No idea who wins, but I'm expecting a war with lots of scrambles, and then lots of big punches from yadong in order to try to win rounds back after the wrestling exchanges.

I had Song winning against Sandhagen before the cut stoppage. Song has pretty good takedown defense and the better striking IMO. Close fight though.

 

[HuskySamoan]

I had Song winning against Sandhagen before the cut stoppage. Song has pretty good takedown defense and the better striking IMO. Close fight though.

It was at best 2-2 when the fight got stopped in the 4th, there's no way you could have had Song "winning" unless you exclude the 4th round from your scoring. 2 judges had it 2-2, 1 had time 3-1 Sandhagen. Cory won 3 and 4, he was coming on and Song was falling further behind when the fight was stopped. It was a good fight though.

 

[sonhow]

As long as Yadong keeps getting up everything should be fine.

 

[drbolony]

Do you guys think Simon will be able to hold song down for long periods of time? I know it was a while ago, but I just can't forget that Font, with a torn ACL, was able to keep simon off him for the vast majority of the fight and get up pretty quickly every time he was taken down. Either I'm underestimating Font's grappling, or simon's top control wasn't that good and will need to be better if he wants to hold song down for any significant amount of time.

Tbh with you, I had to go back and rewatch that fight to give you an honest opinion. It's not anywhere on YouTube, be it highlights or the full fight, so I had to pull out good ole ESPN+ and sit through the whole thing.

From what I saw, Rob is a very good grappler and he doesn't accept positions, even late in the third round of a high pace fight. He already had a lot of experience going against high level grapplers like Munhoz and Assuncao by that point. Song is a TAM guy and does a lot of the right things when the fight is fresh, but that starts to break down later in the fight like we saw against Stamman and somewhat against Phillips, even though Song did still reverse him late in the fight.

My point is, I'm not really sure you could compare the two. Especially not late fight. That said, I think you're right about Ricky's top control, it's not the strongest part of his grappling game. He has good take downs and cardio, dangerous with he subs. His arm triangle against Jack Shore came off of a knockdown though and not top control and positioning.

I don't think Simon will use his wrestling try to finish the fight until Song is tired and less explosive. He'll probably just use his full arsenal of MMA skills to push his pace on Song and try to get him to wilt. That said, he'll have to be in Songs face to do that, and that's obviously dangerous. That said, with the right game plan, I think Ricky can draw out big attacks from Song in order to capitalize with his wrestling and really tax that cardio early.

 

[Bowel-forged Stool]

Yadong looking thick, solid, and tight. Very impressive

 

[WolverReem]

I don't see this fight being easy for either guy sir.

This didn't age well. Song murdered him just like I said