WS4SB - still relevant

[oyaji poi]

I've been doing Joe DeFranco's Westside for Skinny Bastards programme for the past few months. DeFranco suggests people take the principles from the programme and adapt them to their own goals, time, equipment etc.

What I took from it was to lift fast or heavy and then bodybuilder stuff. I have ME Upper, ME Lower and a combined the "Dynamic Effort lower" and "Repetition Effort upper" day.

Monday
DE Lower Box Jump (chin-ups between sets)
RE Upper 3x20-30 or 5x10 (DeFranco suggests alternating a few weeks higher rep work with a few weeks of "traditional" bodybuilder set/rep scheme. I choose the BBB set/rep scheme)
Lower body lift - Goodmorning, RDL, SS Bar squat etc 3-4x8-12
Pull - lat pulldown, bent row, Kroc row
Triceps


Thursday
ME Upper - 3-5RM, sometimes with Joker Sets or drop sets
2 sets of high reps (15-20) incline DB, pushups.
Upper back
Triceps
Biceps


Friday
ME Lower - 3-5RM, sometimes Joker Sets or drop sets.
Assistance lift - GM, RDL, SS Bar squat: 3-4x8-12 (lately been doing 5x10).
Single-leg 2-3x8-15
Abs


Coming off of a long time spent on a linear progression programme with only 4-5 lifts this has been a welcome change in terms of variety. Mentally it's nice not feeling locked-in to a particular programme that relies on achieving weekly/monthly progression or targets such as Texas Method and 531.

I think for someone looking to cut a bit of weight after SS or incorporate conditioning for sport into their schedule this is a reasonably flexible programme.

Recently due to work I've been too busy to train 3 times a week so I combined DE lower with ME Upper on Monday and RE Upper with ME Lower on Friday (as suggested by DeFranco). This arrangement could compliment 2-3 hard conditioning sessions each week (with the assistance work on the lower end).

Is anyone else running something similar? It has been a long time since anyone mentioned this programme on here, it's been all about that 531, Cube, Smolov etc.

 

[ssdd]

I've been running something kind of like that, except the exercises don't change

Day 1 Squat, Bench (5s @ 85% or 3s at 90%), Weighted chin ups (grip varies). It's not a true ME day, but if I have more energy on a given day I'll shoot for heavier weights than 85 or 90%.

Day 2
powerclean, deadlift 531, SOHP 531, Front squat 70-85% depending on the week. This is like between an RE, DE day. I've seen this intensity range sometimes called SE

Day 3
RE squat, RE bench, DB rows or Kroc rows alternating every week.

Also do some face pulls or rotator cuff work at the end of every workout. I used the prilipins table article to decide how many sets and reps to use.

I tried WS4SB3 a long time ago but I didnt like changing the exercises frequently. At my strength level (weak) I didn't think it was productive and when I came back to a main lift again I wasn't much if any stronger.

 

[oyaji poi]

I've been running something kind of like that, except the exercises don't change

Day 1 Squat, Bench (5s @ 85% or 3s at 90%), Weighted chin ups (grip varies). It's not a true ME day, but if I have more energy on a given day I'll shoot for heavier weights than 85 or 90%.

Day 2
powerclean, deadlift 531, SOHP 531, Front squat 70-85% depending on the week. This is like between an RE, DE day. I've seen this intensity range sometimes called SE

Day 3
RE squat, RE bench, DB rows or Kroc rows alternating every week.

Also do some face pulls or rotator cuff work at the end of every workout. I used the prilipins table article to decide how many sets and reps to use.

I tried WS4SB3 a long time ago but I didnt like changing the exercises frequently. At my strength level (weak) I didn't think it was productive and when I came back to a main lift again I wasn't much if any stronger.

I think that unless you're training at Joe's gym a beginner would be better off doing linear programming. Otherwise it's definitely an intermediate programme.

What are you doing for DE lower and RE upper?

 

[Tosa]

I don't like that much variation for main lifts. It's possible that a few, well selected, more subtle variations could work. Also, for a low volume routine, it's a lot of work put into assistance.

I like ssdd's routine much better, although I think it's pretty different from WS4SB.

 

[oyaji poi]

I don't like that much variation for main lifts. It's possible that a few, well selected, more subtle variations could work. Also, for a low volume routine, it's a lot of work put into assistance.

I like ssdd's routine much better, although I think it's pretty different from WS4SB.

I don't find it particularly low volume, the assistance work really adds up. It's a huge step up in volume from beginner linear progression routines.


What I've found hardest is understanding how much volume is "right". Working in the higher rep ranges is so different from before. I've found rest periods to be a major factor in whether I can get the same number of reps across all set - even 30 seconds extra can make the difference between doing 4x12 and 12,12,10,8 for example.

 

[oyaji poi]

I don't like that much variation for main lifts. It's possible that a few, well selected, more subtle variations could work. Also, for a low volume routine, it's a lot of work put into assistance.

I like ssdd's routine much better, although I think it's pretty different from WS4SB.

I find I rotate through only a few lifts, mainly trapbar deadlift, normal deadlift, and squat for ME lower; and close-grip bench, regular bench, and incline bench for ME upper. Same with the assistance lifts, 2-3 for each category.

 

[ssdd]

I think that unless you're training at Joe's gym a beginner would be better off doing linear programming. Otherwise it's definitely an intermediate programme.

What are you doing for DE lower and RE upper?

When I did WS4SB3 I used vertical jumps, broad jumps, and shallow depth jumps for DE lower. I don't remember what I did for RE upper l, I think DB bench and weighted BB push ups. I didn't have access to bands, chains, racks, specialty bars, a coach, or even spotters, and it's hard to run a routine like WS4SB without that.

 

[oyaji poi]

It's true, changing exercises frequently can be challenging either because of a lack of equipment or a lack of experience with the lift.

From what I've read most people in a early intermediate stage don't change lifts as often as DeFranco says (every couple of weeks) and definitely not as often as Louie says (every week). Accommodation is not near as much a problem.

For me, and I imagine many others, the first few weeks are spent just getting used to a new exercise and figuring out what a good working weight is, then a few more weeks spent getting a new max. I've found this to serve as a sort of deload. After a few weeks of reaching new 3RM when it starts to become a major grind I switch.

In the case of assistance lifts hitting 4x12 means upping the weight so I can only get 3x8 or so. Then add reps or sets over the course of a few weeks until getting 4x12 again (or until I simply feel like switching exercises).

 

[oyaji poi]

Lately I've been pressed for time so after the heavy/fast lifts I simply do 5x10 and a few accessory lifts then going home.

I could be doing 531 but I don't like having prescribed percentages each week. I prefer getting a 3-5RM for that day, which may or may not be an all-time record.

 

[Tosa]

I find I rotate through only a few lifts, mainly trapbar deadlift, normal deadlift, and squat for ME lower; and close-grip bench, regular bench, and incline bench for ME upper. Same with the assistance lifts, 2-3 for each category.

The issue for more is the difference in the type of movement, and mental cues. Part of improving strength is motor learning - and a big part of the benefit of max effort work is that same motor learning, but if the skills being practiced are always changing, then you can't build upon those skills.

Personally, when it comes to variations on a lift, I think about how I do the movement - eg. the steps I use when I set-up, and what sort of mental cues I use - if I pretty much set-up the same, and use the same cues, then it might be a decent variation.