Wrestling shot/penetration step question

Hendo89

Hendo89

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Does the front or lead leg's knee hit the ground or not????? getting mixed answers everywhere i ask so, F12, dont let me down!
 
Everywhere I have trained they have made me touch that knee to the ground. Pat Smith even told me to do it, and I trust anything he says about wrestling.
 
The traditional wrestling way, yes, it does. A lot of judo/BJJ guys prefer not to, as do some elite wrestlers. I think it's better to do the full drop step with the knee coming down when you're learning it.
 
Thanks lads, the only reason i ask, is that it hurts my kneecap on anything other than mats (even mats a little) is that because i'm not bringing the other leg through fast enough, causing a harder hit? a level change issue?
 
Well, some MMA fighters don't do it, but they're standing upright. Honestly, it depends. Sorry, you're question is too vague.
 
Hendo89 said:
Thanks lads, the only reason i ask, is that it hurts my kneecap on anything other than mats (even mats a little) is that because i'm not bringing the other leg through fast enough, causing a harder hit? a level change issue?
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Well, you're not supposed to drop you're weight hard on the knee, you're supposed to be moving forward. Keep working on it and buy a set of knee pads in the meantime.
 
Ok so less ambiguous.. For grappling (bjj catch etc) would the best wrestlers in the world touch their knee to the ground? Or is it just learnt by touching the knee, and commonly seen performed with the knee touch at lower levels, then as you get better it ends up not touching but more of a slight glide??? I heard of a guy doing shot training on concrete to prove his method was safe.
 
The better you get, the lighter the touch, but I think most wrestlers will still drop the knee in a pure grappling scenario.
 
I've seen it work both way. You'll notice with a lot higher skilled wrestlers it looks as if their knee glides just on the mat. It's truly a thing of beauty.
 
many different ways to do it. A blast double people usually don't touch a knee and instead lower levels to a squat and power through.

On a single leg it is mostly done by touching the knee first while a sweep single the knee usually doesn't touch unless someone hits a good sprawl.

Low singles involve dropping straight to your knee.

Most often people hit a high crotch takedown without hitting a knee as it would allow for an easier sprawl.

All in all you are usually told to hit a knee before hitting a takedown because not many people have that fluid movement of a shot down so hitting a knee to the ground and pulling the other through will allow for better practice of the movement of shots.
 
The crucial part of the knee touch is that you don't apply excessive weight to it as that would diminish your momentum , as the previous posters have stated a grazing touch is best to encourage a fluid shot .
 
I've seen high level wrestlers (college +) do both. I, with my limited experience, prefer the leg dropping as I feel that it gets me lower and helps close ground quicker. If you look at shinya aoki, his double legs are so smooth are long, his double legs are like 1/3 of the length of a ring lol.
 
IMO, you MUST drop the knee--at least for your first 50,000 reps until your body truly understands the movement. At that point, you'll know whether you need to drop the knee or not. Trying to learn a penetration step without dropping the knee is, I think, a recipe for disaster.
 
By the time my knee is touching the ground my other leg is coming up right behind it (not literally behind) in a fluid motion. That's how I learned it after years of wrestling so I would also suggest it.

:28 (had to get in some vision quest)



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In wrestling you usually have to because everyone's stance is so low, so you need to get as underneath their hips as possible. In MMA and most of the Sub Grappling I've seen the stances aren't that low so your level change doesn't need to be as extreme while still making sure your in deep enough to get your hips below and parallel to theirs.
 
KJGould said:
In wrestling you usually have to because everyone's stance is so low, so you need to get as underneath their hips as possible. In MMA and most of the Sub Grappling I've seen the stances aren't that low so your level change doesn't need to be as extreme while still making sure your in deep enough to get your hips below and parallel to theirs.
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does getting that low make it harder to shoot from farther away?
 
KJGould said:
In wrestling you usually have to because everyone's stance is so low, so you need to get as underneath their hips as possible. In MMA and most of the Sub Grappling I've seen the stances aren't that low so your level change doesn't need to be as extreme while still making sure your in deep enough to get your hips below and parallel to theirs.
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and there you have it folks.

Jordan Burroughs became a world champ shooting doubles that included dropping to his knee (most of the time), but in mma or sub grappling he would just be blasting through everyone without ever having to do that.
 
newerest said:
does getting that low make it harder to shoot from farther away?
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yes. in a pure grappling situation you should be as close as possible when you shoot. You do not see this in mma because of striking range. Set up your shot, get a good penetration step, execute, explode through, if it gets stuffed, either back out or re-shoot

EDIT: do not rush it. if you set it up correctly the takedown will be there. We had a saying in the military : Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.
 
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