Wrestling first and then Mma or straight into mma?

[TronJavolta]

Hey guys, I'm a 23 year old male living in the Netherlands. I would like to start MMA again (I quit back in 2020 after training for a few months due to needing to focus on school.) and I would also like to have amateur fights.

I'm very motivated to start training and do really good, which brings me to my question. I have always liked to wrestle and grapple and I have the option of going to a wrestling gym, I have heard that's it's usually better to establish a base in one martial arts before you get better at others and I would like to have a strong or competent wrestling base. But wrestling here in the Netherlands is almost nonexistent and I would have to sign up at two separate gyms in the city.

So the options I have are:

Option 1) Go to an MMA gym (not sure if I'm allowed to name the gym), of which the schedule they have looks like this:

Monday:
06:00 pm – 07:00 pm Kickboxing (no sparring)
07:00 pm – 08:00 pm Boxing or BJJ Basic with a Gi
08:00 pm – 09:00 pm MMA

Tuesday:
08:00 am – 09:00 am Kickboxing
08:00 pm – 09:30 pm Wrestling (free style)

Wednesday:
07:00 pm – 08:00 pm Boxing basics or Grappling- NoGi
08:00 pm – 09:00 pm MMA

Thursday:
07:00 pm – 08:00 pm MMA
08:00 pm– 09:15 pm BJJ- Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

Friday:
11:00 am -12:15 pm Grappling- NoGi

07:00 pm – 08:00 pm MMA Basic (no sparring)

08:00 pm – 09:15 pm Grappling- NoGi

Sunday:
10:00 am – 11:15 am Open mat BJJ/ Grappling- NoGi
10:00 am- 11:00 am MMA sparring (invite only)

*not sure yet what sessions I would go to or are beneficial to go to besides the Mma and wrestling ones.


Option 2) Wrestling from Monday to Friday, 90 minute sessions every day. So 7,5 hours per week. I can't do more than these because I'd have to sign up at more gyms and it would be too expensive.

Questions I have:
- Would that amount of wrestling training for a year let me develop a good wrestling base for mma?
- Would training wrestling for a year at my age actually be beneficial for me in mma if I wanted to compete in the amateurs or professionally some day? I'd be 24 and I don't weigh that much, so I'm not sure if it would be recommended.
- What sessions would you attend in the mma gym schedule to progress quickly in mma?


Sorry for the long wall of text, just didn't know where to ask or share.

Tl:dr : Should I wrestle 7,5 hours a week for a year before training and competing in MMA to develop somewhat of a wrestling base? I'm 23.

 

[Human Bass]

I guess it would be easier to do no gi grappling. Do for around 4 months to get in shape than move to mma.

 

[TronJavolta]

I guess it would be easier to do no gi grappling. Do for around 4 months to get in shape than move to mma.

Why not wrestling? Is it because it's tough to get into as an adult or?

 

[Smato_rules]

I’d just get after it and train at the mma gym so long as the teaching is good. You can always supplement it with the wrestling gym, but at the end of the day if you wanna do mma you might as well train as much mma as you can

 

[TronJavolta]

I’d just get after it and train at the mma gym so long as the teaching is good. You can always supplement it with the wrestling gym, but at the end of the day if you wanna do mma you might as well train as much mma as you can

Wouldn't I be lacking in the wrestling department though? Also is not more advantageous to have a base in something else and then moving to MMA?

 

[DoctorTaco]

It sounds like you want to wrestle. So, go wrestle!

 

[Human Bass]

Why not wrestling? Is it because it's tough to get into as an adult or?

Can you find good classes there?

 

[TronJavolta]

It sounds like you want to wrestle. So, go wrestle!

Is 6 to 7,5 hours a week for a year enough to at least be somewhat competent at wrestling or have an alright wrestling base for Mma competition?

 

[TronJavolta]

Can you find good classes there?

Yes I'd say so. It's mostly 90 minute sessions though once a day, 5 days a week. Not sure how sufficient that is.

 

[DoctorTaco]

Is 6 to 7,5 hours a week for a year enough to at least be somewhat competent at wrestling or have an alright wrestling base for Mma competition?

Sure man. You’ll be better than the guys who only get wrestling at the mma gym and at least be able to understand what to do against the guys who are more experienced.

 

[ChickenBrother]

Wouldn't I be lacking in the wrestling department though? Also is not more advantageous to have a base in something else and then moving to MMA?

Have you done a trial class at both gyms to assess which one you like better? This is hard for others to answer in a vacuum because so much of a gym experience is down to quality of instruction and how you vibe with the coaches and other students (or not).

But all else being equal and given your stated preference for wrestling, wrestling gym would be a no brainer if this were in the U.S.A. and you were learning American folkstyle. That ruleset encourages sustained control "riding" on the mat which is more applicable to BJJ/MMA grappling than mat work in the international styles. Ground grappling in freestyle and even more so GR has very limited carry-over to BJJ and MMA and primary value will be takedowns.

If your goal is MMA and the wrestling gym is freestyle, I would lean towards the MMA gym and do the wrestling class in conjunction with the other training UNLESS you have particularly great chemistry with the wrestling gym coaches. But you need to visit those gyms in person and evaluate that for yourself.

 

[TronJavolta]

Have you done a trial class at both gyms to assess which one you like better? This is hard for others to answer in a vacuum because so much of a gym experience is down to quality of instruction and how you vibe with the coaches and other students (or not).

But all else being equal and given your stated preference for wrestling, wrestling gym would a no brainer if this were in the U.S.A. and you were learning American folkstyle. That ruleset encourages sustained control "riding" on the mat which is more applicable to BJJ/MMA grappling than mat work in the international styles. Ground grappling in freestyle and even more so GR has very limited carry-over to BJJ and MMA and primary value will be takedowns.

If your goal is MMA and the wrestling gym is freestyle, I would lean towards the MMA gym and do the wrestling class in conjunction with the other training UNLESS you have particularly great chemistry with the wrestling gym coaches. But you need to visit those gyms in person and evaluate that for yourself.

Huh, those are some good points about the style difference. I don't think there really is any gym here in the Netherlands that teaches Folkstyle wrestling. The gyms I looked at are both Freestyle and Greco-Roman wrestling schools.

Is Folkstyle really that more advantageous compared to freestyle for MMA?

 

[Human Bass]

Huh, those are some good points about the style difference. I don't think there really is any gym here in the Netherlands that teaches Folkstyle wrestling. The gyms I looked at are both Freestyle and Greco-Roman wrestling schools.

Is Folkstyle really that more advantageous compared to freestyle for MMA?

Folk and free will be similar enough. Just avoid greco.

 

[ChickenBrother]

Huh, those are some good points about the style difference. I don't think there really is any gym here in the Netherlands that teaches Folkstyle wrestling. The gyms I looked at are both Freestyle and Greco-Roman wrestling schools.

Is Folkstyle really that more advantageous compared to freestyle for MMA?

Like with all rulesets, it depends on the particular athlete's game i.e. there are BJJ competitors with fantastic TDs and TD defense and Judoka with BJJ BB equivalent newaza. But due to the scoring incentives in those sports, those guys aren't the norm.

Folkstyle rules reward standing up under your own power if you're on bottom (rewarded with 1 escape point) and riding if you're on top (to deny other guy his escape point). College rules add a riding clock (same concept as a chess clock), so you get an additional riding point if you accumulate 1 minute or more of riding time over your opponent. As a consequence, ref stand ups from grounded are rare unless a true stalemate or potentially dangerous hold occurs. So folkstyle wrestlers become proficient in standing up off the ground (very prevalent in MMA) and trying to deny the same if they're on top.

Freestyle and GR rules don't incentivize this i.e. there are no points for escaping, no points for riding and ref stand ups are much more frequent. It's much more about TDs. So generally if you're on bottom in these rulesets, you simply bottom out onto your belly in a defensive position and wait for ref stand up. Obviously that's a terrible game plan for BJJ or MMA. And if you're on top, there's no incentive to go for back mount to ride your opponent (also sets up a lot of submissions) but instead to go for momentary back exposure to the mat, which isn't relevant for BJJ or MMA.

Of course there are also folkstyle habits that need to be unlearned for MMA, but in general it's more relevant than freestyle or greco roman.

 

[TronJavolta]

Folk and free will be similar enough. Just avoid greco.

Like with all rulesets, it depends on the particular athlete's game i.e. there are BJJ competitors with fantastic TDs and TD defense and Judoka with BJJ BB equivalent newaza. But due to the scoring incentives in those sports, those guys aren't the norm.

Folkstyle rules reward standing up under your own power if you're on bottom (rewarded with 1 escape point) and riding if you're on top (to deny other guy his escape point). College rules add a riding clock (same concept as a chess clock), so you get an additional riding point if you accumulate 1 minute or more of riding time over your opponent. As a consequence, ref stand ups from grounded are rare unless a true stalemate or potentially dangerous hold occurs. So folkstyle wrestlers become proficient in standing up off the ground (very prevalent in MMA) and trying to deny the same if they're on top.

Freestyle and GR rules don't incentivize this i.e. there are no points for escaping, no points for riding and ref stand ups are much more frequent. It's much more about TDs. So generally if you're on bottom in these rulesets, you simply bottom out onto your belly in a defensive position and wait for ref stand up. Obviously that's a terrible game plan for BJJ or MMA. And if you're on top, there's no incentive to go for back mount to ride your opponent (also sets up a lot of submissions) but instead to go for momentary back exposure to the mat, which isn't relevant for BJJ or MMA.

Of course there are also folkstyle habits that need to be unlearned for MMA, but in general it's more relevant than freestyle or greco roman.

Interesting, I'm still mulling it over. Maybe I can go over there and check to see if there are any guys that train in Folkstyle or have wrestled folkstyle as well,maybe pick some things up from them that way.. Would the downsides of Freestyle Wrestling (no matwork) be mitigated by adding NoGi Grappling sessions in the week? I would think that considering Freestyle places more of an emphasis on takedowns, adding BJJ to it would maybe help. Also, do you think a year of 6 to 7,5 hours per week of wrestling will get me to an alright level wrestling wise for MMA? Thank you so much for you extensive answers by the way, I really appreciate it.

 

[ChickenBrother]

Interesting, I'm still mulling it over. Maybe I can go over there and check to see if there are any guys that train in Folkstyle or have wrestled folkstyle as well,maybe pick some things up from them that way.. Would the downsides of Freestyle Wrestling (no matwork) be mitigated by adding NoGi Grappling sessions in the week? I would think that considering Freestyle places more of an emphasis on takedowns, adding BJJ to it would maybe help. Also, do you think a year of 6 to 7,5 hours per week of wrestling will get me to an alright level wrestling wise for MMA? Thank you so much for you extensive answers by the way, I really appreciate it.

I have to keep coming back to it depends on you and your coaches. This isn't a video game where there's an optimal build path to become overpowered. The game you eventually develop will depend heavily on what you actually like to do, what you're good at and which techniques you've been taught or exposed to, but you’re going to end up cross-training everything anyway. Visit all of the gyms in your area, do a trial class and talk to the coaches about your goals and expectations. Then you can make an informed decision.

But all else equal, wrestling (any style) + BJJ is a very good combo and as you know, is the most common background for MMA grappling.

 

[Smato_rules]

Wouldn't I be lacking in the wrestling department though? Also is not more advantageous to have a base in something else and then moving to MMA?

Maybe, it depends on your mma school. A lot of guys are using Bjj techniques from the bottom to get on top, threaten with single leg x and leg locks to get on top, like mousassi vs weidman. But do what you want it won’t matter much in the grand scheme of things honestly, if you want to cross train ask the wrestling club and maybe you can do a day or two a week there too.

 

[Patrick Jane]

Wrestling first.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

Hey guys, I'm a 23 year old male living in the Netherlands. I would like to start MMA again (I quit back in 2020 after training for a few months due to needing to focus on school.) and I would also like to have amateur fights.

I'm very motivated to start training and do really good, which brings me to my question. I have always liked to wrestle and grapple and I have the option of going to a wrestling gym, I have heard that's it's usually better to establish a base in one martial arts before you get better at others and I would like to have a strong or competent wrestling base. But wrestling here in the Netherlands is almost nonexistent and I would have to sign up at two separate gyms in the city.

So the options I have are:

Option 1) Go to an MMA gym (not sure if I'm allowed to name the gym), of which the schedule they have looks like this:

Monday:
06:00 pm – 07:00 pm Kickboxing (no sparring)
07:00 pm – 08:00 pm Boxing or BJJ Basic with a Gi
08:00 pm – 09:00 pm MMA

Tuesday:
08:00 am – 09:00 am Kickboxing
08:00 pm – 09:30 pm Wrestling (free style)

Wednesday:
07:00 pm – 08:00 pm Boxing basics or Grappling- NoGi
08:00 pm – 09:00 pm MMA

Thursday:
07:00 pm – 08:00 pm MMA
08:00 pm– 09:15 pm BJJ- Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

Friday:
11:00 am -12:15 pm Grappling- NoGi

07:00 pm – 08:00 pm MMA Basic (no sparring)

08:00 pm – 09:15 pm Grappling- NoGi

Sunday:
10:00 am – 11:15 am Open mat BJJ/ Grappling- NoGi
10:00 am- 11:00 am MMA sparring (invite only)

*not sure yet what sessions I would go to or are beneficial to go to besides the Mma and wrestling ones.


Option 2) Wrestling from Monday to Friday, 90 minute sessions every day. So 7,5 hours per week. I can't do more than these because I'd have to sign up at more gyms and it would be too expensive.

Questions I have:
- Would that amount of wrestling training for a year let me develop a good wrestling base for mma?
- Would training wrestling for a year at my age actually be beneficial for me in mma if I wanted to compete in the amateurs or professionally some day? I'd be 24 and I don't weigh that much, so I'm not sure if it would be recommended.
- What sessions would you attend in the mma gym schedule to progress quickly in mma?


Sorry for the long wall of text, just didn't know where to ask or share.

Tl:dr : Should I wrestle 7,5 hours a week for a year before training and competing in MMA to develop somewhat of a wrestling base? I'm 23.

You are still very young. Yes wrestle full time 2 years. Then do MMA.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

I guess it would be easier to do no gi grappling. Do for around 4 months to get in shape than move to mma.

What? No, why? He has the opportunity to wrestle and is still young. Nothing beats that.