Social WR Lounge v222 Guys I can’t do everything for you

[Yehudim]

I'm fine with voter ID but the burden is on the government to make getting them as easy as possible and free for voters.

Voting should be as simple and accessible as possible.

Didn’t some Republicans back this and then Dems were still against it?

Getting an ID is pretty simple, on account of like 99% of people getting them. People without an ID consisted of hundreds of thousands of potential voters, IIRC.

It’s a total distraction tbh

 

[Andy Capp]

Also can anyone tell me how without ID it can be determined that there is no voter fraud? I mean maybe you’ll change my mind.

Can you answer basic questions about yourself like your address and the length of time you've lived there?

 

[Yehudim]

Didn’t some Republicans back this and then Dems were still against it?

Getting an ID is pretty simple, on account of like 99% of people getting them. People without an ID consisted of hundreds of thousands of potential voters, IIRC.

It’s a total distraction tbh

Oh and to make it super duper clear: a couple hundred thousand people in a pool of 200+ million is statistically insignificant

Only the dumbest and most impoverished dont have something as basic as an ID, and they don’t vote anyways.

 

[Darkballs]

Tell me if this sounds consistent.

A: Voting is a right so ID shouldn't be required because not everyone is able to get one.
B: You should have to show ID to buy a gun.

SCOTUS already weighed in on this.

For B, the State has shown cause for requiring ID. Guns are used in crimes. It would help law enforcement to be able to trace said guns, and/or prevent them from being sold to people we have laws against possessing them (felons, minors, etc.)

For A, the State has utterly failed to show cause. Republicans simply cannot demonstrate any widespread fraud that would be prevented through the mandate of voter ID laws; conversely, there has been evidence that requiring a special ID would disenfranchise several million people.

Apples to dildo's, and all that.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

SCOTUS already weighed in on this.

For B, the State has shown cause for requiring ID. Guns are used in crimes. It would help law enforcement to be able to trace said guns, and/or prevent them from being sold to people we have laws against possessing them (felons, minors, etc.)

For A, the State has utterly failed to show cause. Republicans simply cannot demonstrate any widespread fraud that would be prevented through the mandate of voter ID laws; conversely, there has been evidence that requiring a special ID would disenfranchise several million people.

Apples to dildo's, and all that.

Like I said, there's no principle at work. Just rationalizing.

 

[PolishHeadlock2]

Didn’t some Republicans back this and then Dems were still against it?

Getting an ID is pretty simple, on account of like 99% of people getting them. People without an ID consisted of hundreds of thousands of potential voters, IIRC.

It’s a total distraction tbh

I'm sure there are some Dems that are against any form of voter ID but I don't think it's the prevailing opinion nationwide

 

[Darkballs]

Like I said, there's no principle at work. Just rationalizing.

No, it's the well founded holding that in order to infringe on a fundamental right of the Constitution, the State is required to meet the standard of strict scrutiny.

It's a principle that's been around for over 200 years.

 

[Mr Holmes]

That is not the assertion. That's your deliberate misstatement of the claim that imposing voter ID laws but then reducing access to ID for people believed to be likely to vote Democrat is voter suppression. And the claim is proven.

Wait, what part was a misstatement? And what was proven?

 

[Trotsky]

Didn’t some Republicans back this and then Dems were still against it?

Getting an ID is pretty simple, on account of like 99% of people getting them. People without an ID consisted of hundreds of thousands of potential voters, IIRC.

It’s a total distraction tbh

You're hugely underestimating the difficulty for persons born into poverty. You don't have a birth certificate or SSA card because your mom lost it in the flurry of constant moves during your childhood, not meeting voter residency requirements because you yourself have to move frequently due to the inaffordability of rent, mail being unreliable because you live in dense multi persons residential buildings where mail gets misplaced and often dumped in common areas, public buildings only being open during working hours when you are at your job and can't take off time, etc.

Really, I think the most gross misunderstanding of conservatives surrounds housing issues for the rural poor. I know persons who work for an affordable housing nonprofit (where monthly rents still account for 70% of the wages of a person working 40/week at minimum wage) and they have to cater exclusively to working class persons because, for members of the underclass i.e. the bottom 5% of wage earners, there simply is no housing options that can be had for them.

 

[Sara]

Can you answer basic questions about yourself like your address and the length of time you've lived there?

So no you can’t.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

No, it's the well founded holding that in order to infringe on a fundamental right of the Constitution, the State is required to meet the standard of strict scrutiny.

It's a principle that's been around for over 200 years.

Nobody said rationalizing was a new phenomenon.

And by the way, it's two fundamental rights if you count due process. Or do you consider the inability to satisfy the ID requirement sufficient?

 

[AgonyandIrony]

Man.. Carnival season has been pretty fucking boring. I almost forgot that we were supposed to have parades today.

@AgonyandIrony
Oliver Thorn from Philosophy Tube came out as trans.

Wow. Looking back it seems pretty obvious.

 

[Mr Holmes]

So no you can’t.

like

 

[Sara]

You're hugely underestimating the difficulty for persons born into poverty. You don't have a birth certificate or SSA card because your mom lost it in the flurry of constant moves during your childhood, not meeting voter residency requirements because you yourself have to move frequently due to the inaffordability of rent, mail being unreliable because you live in dense multi persons residential buildings where mail gets misplaced and often dumped in common areas, public buildings only being open during working hours when you are at your job and can't take off time, etc.

Really, I think the most gross misunderstanding of conservatives surrounds housing issues for the rural poor. I know persons who work for an affordable housing nonprofit (where monthly rents still account for 70% of the wages of a person working 40/week at minimum wage) and they have to cater exclusively to working class persons because, for members of the underclass i.e. the bottom 5% of wage earners, there simply is no housing options that can be had for them.

Ok so these people without any ID what so ever, how do they file taxes, legally work, etc?

 

[Trotsky]

Ok so these people without any ID what so ever, how do they file taxes, legally work, etc?

You don't need an ID to do either of those things.

 

[Sara]

You don't need an ID to do either of those things.

You have to identify yourself on tax forms and you don’t just walk into a place and say hi my name is Greg put me to work worth ID for background checks

 

[Yehudim]

You're hugely underestimating the difficulty for persons born into poverty. You don't have a birth certificate or SSA card because your mom lost it in the flurry of constant moves during your childhood, not meeting voter residency requirements because you yourself have to move frequently due to the inaffordability of rent, mail being unreliable because you live in dense multi persons residential buildings where mail gets misplaced and often dumped in common areas, public buildings only being open during working hours when you are at your job and can't take off time, etc.

Really, I think the most gross misunderstanding of conservatives surrounds housing issues for the rural poor. I know persons who work for an affordable housing nonprofit (where monthly rents still account for 70% of the wages of a person working 40/week at minimum wage) and they have to cater exclusively to working class persons because, for members of the underclass i.e. the bottom 5% of wage earners, there simply is no housing options that can be had for them.

I’ve personally had to reacquire my social and I still don’t know where my original birth certificate is.

it’s a headache just like ALL dealings with the social security office, but it’s not something that an adult who isn’t severely mentally handicapped can’t handle.

The only semi-valid excuse I hear is taking time out of work and the fact of the matter is you can always explain to your employer that in a months time you have an appointment with social security and if you cannot afford ONE day off?

Apply for some government assistance so that one days earning of minimum wage doesn’t get you thrown into the street.

I was raised by a stressed out single mother and my dad is to this day a drug addict who never helped us out. Im Latino and I’m not a lawyer and I’m not particularly successful, and I know what stressing over finances is like.

The fact of the matter is that people in such horrible situations that they don’t even have a freaking ID, they just don’t vote, so it’s mainly a distraction anyways.

Well, unless some can provide me some evidence to the contrary.

 

[Darkballs]

Nobody said rationalizing was a new phenomenon.

If you want to dumb down 200+ years of Supreme Court precedent as "rationalizing," you're welcome to it.

And by the way, it's two fundamental rights if you count due process. Or do you consider the inability to satisfy the ID requirement sufficient?

Both infringements would also require an opportunity for a fair and timely hearing. The problem is that you don't even get to that part if the initial infringement was unlawful.

Satisfying the due process requirement doesn't somehow make an unconstitutional action lawful. It's just an additional requirement for such an infringement.

You'd be better off arguing that the State cannot show cause for requiring ID for firearm purchases; or that requiring voter ID satisfies the strict scrutiny requirements that have been in place for centuries.

Both of those would be better arguments than "They seem the same to me!"

 

[Trotsky]

You have to identify yourself on tax forms

You only need a SSA or TIN number, the latter being how most undocumented immigrants pay taxes. It's not like you have to scan in a copy of your driver's license.

and you don’t just walk into a place and say hi my name is Greg put me to work worth ID for background checks

Yes, many do. Most low wage jobs do not conduct background checks or require IDs. Hell, for all the shit jobs I ever had, I never had to provide ID or submit to a background check except for one...and it was a pretty high wage factory job.

I’ve personally had to reacquire my social and I still don’t know where my original birth certificate is.

it’s a headache just like ALL dealings with the social security office, but it’s not something that an adult who isn’t severely mentally handicapped can’t handle.

The only semi-valid excuse I hear is taking time out of work and the fact of the matter is you can always explain to your employer that in a months time you have an appointment with social security and if you cannot afford ONE day off?

Apply for some government assistance so that one days earning of minimum wage doesn’t get you thrown into the street.

I was raised by a stressed out single mother and my dad is to this day a drug addict who never helped us out. Im Latino and I’m not a lawyer and I’m not particularly successful, and I know what stressing over finances is like.

The fact of the matter is that people in such horrible situations that they don’t even have a freaking ID, they just don’t vote, so it’s mainly a distraction anyways.

Well, unless some can provide me some evidence to the contrary.

You can look up voter ID suppression. Idk about the figures for 2020, but IIRC it was estimated around 1 million votes were invalidated in 2016 due to ID laws. On mobile so I don't feel like doing the legwork.

 

[Gregolian]

@Gregolian You've been saying you're looking for ways to make money and finance your Blank Check-esque lifestyle.

I don’t have a blank check lifestyle.

$100 is $100 though to be fair