Multiplat Official Witcher 4 Discussion (TBA)

[GearSolidMetal]

"I'd rather not choose at all" = "I would prefer to be chilling in Tussent drinking wine, but here we are, Vesemir, two old obsolete mutants in no man's land in a middle of a war".
He does not hesitate to make a choice, but it is not a situation he wants to be in at all.
Geralt wants to kill monsters, be paid honestly for it, and not be a cunt himself, yet he is constantly dragged in politics, intrigues, and common people being shitty to each other.
Also please mind that he is not a pholosopher but a simple man trained in swordsmanship much more than in being fancy with words. It's fitting if his moral rules are imperfect in their form.

You're discounting Geralt as a character.
'Simple man trained in swordsmanship?' Witchers are all accomplished swordsmen, and they have to be to take down the most vile and dangerous monsters, who are often man.
It's more complicated than just fighting skill, witchers have enhanced strength, speed, and reflexes.
He's 100 years old, and Witchers that old have alot of wisdom with his years. May not be a studied philosopher but he's learned his ethical code through trial and error.
He's very intelligent with an encyclopedic knowledge of monsters and deduction skills.
He's a medieval-fantasy version of Sherlock Holmes.

 

[ssBaldy]

He's 100 years old, and Witchers that old have alot of wisdom with his years. May not be a studied philosopher but he's learned his ethical code through trial and error.
He's very intelligent with an encyclopedic knowledge of monsters and deduction skills.
He's a medieval-fantasy version of Sherlock Holmes.

And here it shows you didn't read the books.
Geralt is very cool and of course no ordinary peasant, he is outstanding even among witchers. I love the character, don't get me wrong.

But all his knowledge is very specific, related to hunting and killing monsters. He is the best swordsman in the North, he is an expert in monsters, knows some rudimentary alchemy and magic, can read and write, and that's all.
He does not have an academic education at all. His deduction skills come from "witcher insight" button in third game and that's pretty much it. He is nowhere near Sherlock, even if you go by wanky comic-book and Ritchie movies version of Holmes.
Geralt gets used by people smarter or slyer than him in all the books and all 3 games, because he lacks understanding how the society works, and especially of intrigues and deception. He is out of place among people. Laypeople don't like him because of their own ignorance, and the elites find him a fancy mutant mercenary lacking manners and education.

His "witcher code" is entirely his own invention, witchers don't have an ethic code. He found it easier to have a code to refer to, so he created it and modified it when needed. And it is a somewhat good code for that, since Geralt is a good and honest man. But if you view it as a phylosophical system, it is severely flawed and incomplete, and it is because Geralt is a fighter, not a phylosopher. Hence your questions about how come he proclaims he does not want to choose among evils but does it every time.

It is not detrimental to Geralt to point that out, he was a man without too much ambition, caught in geopolitical turmoil and events so much larger than him, and just wanted to care for his close ones and not to be an asshole. I would say he succeeded.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

And here it shows you didn't read the books.

I've read summaries of the books.
The original author's writing style translated into english is about as smooth as a downhill bikeride down a rocky mountain.

But all his knowledge is very specific, related to hunting and killing monsters. He is the best swordsman in the North, he is an expert in monsters, knows some rudimentary alchemy and magic, can read and write, and that's all.He does not have an academic education at all.

None of that contradicts my statement he is 'very intelligent.'
I'm not a credentialist, some of the biggest idiots I know have master degrees.

His deduction skills come from "witcher insight" button in third game and that's pretty much it. He is nowhere near Sherlock, even if you go by wanky comic-book and Ritchie movies version of Holmes.

Does he not make observations within the books with his enhanced witcher senses, or is that exclusively to the games?

Geralt gets used by people smarter or slyer than him in all the books and all 3 games, because he lacks understanding how the society works, and especially of intrigues and deception. He is out of place among people. Laypeople don't like him because of their own ignorance, and the elites find him a fancy mutant mercenary lacking manners and education.

Don't mistake being 'very intelligent' for being the most intelligent. Those who deceive him are often very experienced in deception and mostly use supernatural means to do so.
And even when he is deceived he eventually figures it out.
No one who walks into a situation instantly knows everything about it, and it's common to be deceived.

His "witcher code" is entirely his own invention, witchers don't have an ethic code.

I never said 'witcher code' I said 'ethical code.'
'Witchers code' is an excuse Geralt uses to not talk about a subject he'd rather avoid.

And given the history of interactions Geralt has with rogue witchers, including assassins, it's quite clear there is no set creed they adhere to.

Hence your questions about how come he proclaims he does not want to choose among evils but does it every time.

My question was related to the CDPR statement of how Ciri is different than Geralt because she's willing to choose an evil.

It completely ignores the fact Geralt also chooses an evil, many times. So his statement of "I'd rather not choose one at all" is meaningless.

It is not detrimental to Geralt to point that out, he was a man without too much ambition, caught in geopolitical turmoil and events so much larger than him, and just wanted to care for his close ones and not to be an asshole. I would say he succeeded.

Agreed.

 

[ssBaldy]

I've read summaries of the books.
The original author's writing style translated into english is about as smooth as a downhill bikeride down a rocky mountain.

Probably. Never tried it in English.

None of that contradicts my statement he is 'very intelligent.'
I'm not a credentialist, some of the biggest idiots I know have master degrees.

I mean, yes, lots of idiots with degrees, but to form a universal ethics code you need to properly learn philosophy and rhetorics. Not to get a degree, but learn and understand.
I feel that Geralt's ethics code, while honest, is too simplistic for all the fucked up tricky situations he gets dragged into.

Does he not make observations within the books with his enhanced witcher senses, or is that exclusively to the games?

A lot less. He is good at reading trails, seeing in the dark and has keener hearing than an average person. In W3 you can solve Agatha Christie level plots with witcher sense, not the case in the books.

Don't mistake being 'very intelligent' for being the most intelligent. Those who deceive him are often very experienced in deception and mostly use supernatural means to do so.
And even when he is deceived he eventually figures it out.
No one who walks into a situation instantly knows everything about it, and it's common to be deceived.

I never meant to call Geralt dumb, he clearly is not. And yes, he often finds himself in a pool full of sharks, no arguing here.

My question was related to the CDPR statement of how Ciri is different than Geralt because she's willing to choose an evil.

It completely ignores the fact Geralt also chooses an evil, many times. So his statement of "I'd rather not choose one at all" is meaningless.

I would say the main difference is Ciri actively seeks such situations, whereas Geralt often gets dragged into them by forces outside of his control.
Ciri is a lot less experienced and was treated as special her whole life by everyone, be it for good or bad. She's a princess, damn it. Geralt is a simple man. Yes, smart and exceptionally trained, and mutated, but still. They have very different views and approaches to life.

 

[ssBaldy]

@GearSolidMetal I have a feeling we agree a lot more about Geralt than can be said from these last couple of messages.
Sorry if I sounded condescending talking about the books, I did not mean to.
The only thing I really, 100% do not agree with is your analogy between Geralt and Sherlock.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

I mean, yes, lots of idiots with degrees, but to form a universal ethics code you need to properly learn philosophy and rhetorics. Not to get a degree, but learn and understand.
I feel that Geralt's ethics code, while honest, is too simplistic for all the fucked up tricky situations he gets dragged into.

Geralt's ethical code is more complicated than 'always do the right thing.'
As for 'all the fucked up tricky situations he gets dragged into' in the games there's over a hundred choices Geralt makes, and the quality of the writing displays that most of the options are quite possible what Geralt would have actually done.

YouTuber Neon Knight has made a few videos about choices Geralt absolutely would not do, if you care to view them.

I never meant to call Geralt dumb, he clearly is not. And yes, he often finds himself in a pool full of sharks, no arguing here.

Wholeheartedly agree.
Although quite intelligent, Geralt is not very cunning. He's often victim to many schemes.

I would say the main difference is Ciri actively seeks such situations, whereas Geralt often gets dragged into them by forces outside of his control.
Ciri is a lot less experienced and was treated as special her whole life by everyone, be it for good or bad. She's a princess, damn it. Geralt is a simple man. Yes, smart and exceptionally trained, and mutated, but still. They have very different views and approaches to life.

And I very much wish CDPR had said that in their statement, rather than make a indirectly dismissive statement of Geralt.

CDPR's personnel have been getting some bad headlines over the past few months, and these kind of unforced errors are not aiding their defenders to argue to give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

@GearSolidMetal I have a feeling we agree a lot more about Geralt than can be said from these last couple of messages.
Sorry if I sounded condescending talking about the books, I did not mean to.
The only thing I really, 100% do not agree with is your analogy between Geralt and Sherlock.

Understood.
I think our difference of perspective is related to you having read the books and I've only read summaries, to be honest. Two different canons of the character, the books & games.

Wasn't trying to argue like we would be in the Warroom, verbally sparring "I am right & You are WRONG." We just have a different perspective of the character.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

Yeah its fucking Ciri, but just because she has magic blood and uncontrolled power multiple times more powerful than any known sorceress isn't a license for her to be able to do absolutely anything with ease.

The trials of the grasses is no joke. It kills seven out of ten boys, and there's probably a reason why adults don't do it, especially women.

And if you can't tell with Yen's sidestory, being able to reproduce is important for women. The trials of the grasses renders the witchers infertile. That's besides the fact there's prophesies related to Ciri's offspring.


I very much doubt it's going to be that simple.

It'd be very 'girl-bossy.'
"No women have passed the trials? Well I'll be the first one."

I think Ciri is already established as pretty girl bossy tbh.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

I think Ciri is already established as pretty girl bossy tbh.

But she's also already established as not stupid.

Willingly doing the Trials Of The Grasses, as an *Adult *Woman when it kills 7 of 10 boys...

...when she's already OP in Witcher3?

I'm trusting CDPR to be writing a believable narrative around this, rather than writing themselves into a hole they can't climb out of.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

But she's also already established as not stupid.

Willingly doing the Trials Of The Grasses, as an *Adult *Woman when it kills 7 of 10 boys...

...when she's already OP in Witcher3?

I'm trusting CDPR to be writing a believable narrative around this, rather than writing themselves into a hole they can't climb out of.

I understand what you're saying but how many male Witchers are going to have the level of power that Ciri does going in? She could already outperform experienced Witchers by the end of TW3, let alone young ones.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

I understand what you're saying but how many male Witchers are going to have the level of power that Ciri does going in? She could already outperform experienced Witchers by the end of TW3, let alone young ones.

It's not about power levels, it's about biology & risk/reward for actually completing the trials, as well as the probable drawback of being infertile.

As for 'outperforming experienced witchers' she was almost killed by a simple and common monster with the empress ending.... or if she becomes a witcher and meets Geralt in Toussaint she's been on the path for a while at that point.
It's tricky to compare her as a witcher against other experienced witchers given there's so few.

And I don't consider the Witcher4 trailer as canon because it may display a mission you play within the game itself. If it is canon I'd be very concerned about Ciri not using any of her elder blood magic (teleportation). If her OP magical powers are nerfed just to have a witcher's strength, speed, reflexes, nightvision, and ability to drink potions.... that's a terrible downgrade.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

It's not about power levels, it's about biology & risk/reward for actually completing the trials, as well as the probable drawback of being infertile.

As for 'outperforming experienced witchers' she was almost killed by a simple and common monster with the empress ending.... or if she becomes a witcher and meets Geralt in Toussaint she's been on the path for a while at that point.
It's tricky to compare her as a witcher against other experienced witchers given there's so few.

And I don't consider the Witcher4 trailer as canon because it may display a mission you play within the game itself. If it is canon I'd be very concerned about Ciri not using any of her elder blood magic (teleportation). If her OP magical powers are nerfed just to have a witcher's strength, speed, reflexes, nightvision, and ability to drink potions.... that's a terrible downgrade.

I think she might play for the other team which might explain her not caring about fertility lol (poor Skjall)

I'm not sure what to make of what she was doing in the trailer. On the one hand she wasn't teleporting on the other hand she fired electricity and set her whip on fire when it was wrapped round the monster's neck, which looked like a step up from normal Witcher sign casting to me.

 

[ssBaldy]

YouTuber Neon Knight has made a few videos about choices Geralt absolutely would not do, if you care to view them.

Didnt watch the whole video, but for some pivotal decisions he is making valid points that go in line with book Geralt, good video, if very lengthy.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

I think she might play for the other team which might explain her not caring about fertility lol (poor Skjall)

In the books she's displayed attraction to both boys and girls, so she's probably bisexual, and even if she is lesbian they often want to gave children still.

And yes, poor Skjall... because he's fat.... and dead.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Didnt watch the whole video, but for some pivotal decisions he is making valid points that go in line with book Geralt, good video, if very lengthy.

Very good videos.
My point is while Geralt's philosophy is simple, he is quite complicated.

 

[ssBaldy]

Very good videos.
My point is while Geralt's philosophy is simple, he is quite complicated.

Yes, and that is what makes him an interesting character. Ciri is much more one-dimentional, if anything.

 

[GearSolidMetal]

Yes, and that is what makes him an interesting character. Ciri is much more one-dimentional, if anything.

Wouldn't say 'one dimentional.'
We've as of yet to see her as an actual Witcher.
Given her perspective as a princess who was raised by witchers and sorceresses, and hunted by the Wild Hunt through multiple realms.. I bet we're going to see her become a very interesting character.

And Witcher4 is supposed to be the first of a new trilogy, with the decisions of previous entries carrying on toward the new game. Mass Effect style. This has limitless potential.

 

[ssBaldy]

Wouldn't say 'one dimentional.'
We've as of yet to see her as an actual Witcher.
Given her perspective as a princess who was raised by witchers and sorceresses, and hunted by the Wild Hunt through multiple realms.. I bet we're going to see her become a very interesting character.

And Witcher4 is supposed to be the first of a new trilogy, with the decisions of previous entries carrying on toward the new game. Mass Effect style. This has limitless potential.

We may see her develop a lot, indeed. And I am not saying she is a bad character, she is the centre of Sapkowski's story after all. I hope the writing for the game is as good as for original trilogy.
But as of now, Ciri has been dealing with one problem only (incredibly complex one, granted). She was trying to get everyone and the fate itself off her back.
All the while Geralt dealt with everything from riggers and sentient dragons to intrigues at courts of multiple kings, in various circumstances. And he had more moral choices to make.

 

[Hellowhosthat]

I think the main difference between Ciri and Geralt will be Ciri is more emotional.