Winky Wright's Defense

[NuTzOnSwOll]

It's a lot like Winky's, only not as good.

lol

alright heres another one.

You ever check out Remy Bonjasky ? Personally i feel he's like the Winky Wright of K1 but i just cant break his style down.
His hands are super high with the gloves almost clearing the crown of his head......why/how doesnt he get body-shotted ? He doesnt crouch. He stands pretty tall.
Sometimes he puts both hands foward at the same time (when leg kicking)....why doesnt he get uppercutted ?
how does he peer through the gloves ? When i raise my eyes just that wee bit behind my guard .....i can feel it. Sometimes it looks like his head is straight down.

The only part of his game i can pick up on is .....footwork but its not the boxing shuffle.

Thoughts anybody ?

 

[Sinister]

I always liked Remy. I thought he was one of the smarter Dutch-style Muay Thai practitioners I'd ever seen. But as for why he didn't get attacked strategically I think it boils down to his offense. He's quick for his size, so theres ALWAYS the threat of fast counters, and speed sucks just as bad as power. Getting hit with shit you don't see is no fun for anyone. And not only does he kick hard, but he knees hard and is light on his feet.

From what I've ever seen of him he endures body shots well, which is discouraging, especially when you're under a shorter time limit to win a bout. In the days when kickboxing was 10-12-15 rounds, I'm sure smart Fighters would invest in hitting his body a lot more, and at better angles to bust some of those organs up.

As far as the eye contact thing, Bernard Hopkins almost always looks like he's looking at the floor. He's not. He's using his peripherals. I do that a bit myself nowadays since my stance is lower than it used to be. When you have a lot of experience like these guys do, you can detect even the slightest tensing of an opponent, just with the corners of your eyes.

 

[NuTzOnSwOll]

I always liked Remy. I thought he was one of the smarter Dutch-style Muay Thai practitioners I'd ever seen. But as for why he didn't get attacked strategically I think it boils down to his offense. He's quick for his size, so theres ALWAYS the threat of fast counters, and speed sucks just as bad as power. Getting hit with shit you don't see is no fun for anyone. And not only does he kick hard, but he knees hard and is light on his feet.

From what I've ever seen of him he endures body shots well, which is discouraging, especially when you're under a shorter time limit to win a bout. In the days when kickboxing was 10-12-15 rounds, I'm sure smart Fighters would invest in hitting his body a lot more, and at better angles to bust some of those organs up.

As far as the eye contact thing, Bernard Hopkins almost always looks like he's looking at the floor. He's not. He's using his peripherals. I do that a bit myself nowadays since my stance is lower than it used to be. When you have a lot of experience like these guys do, you can detect even the slightest tensing of an opponent, just with the corners of your eyes.

Yup ... i thought the same. His footwork n strong midsection combined with hard hard kicks. He broke Gokhan Saki's rib with one.....not his floating/lower rib....his UPPER ONE !!!

 

[NuTzOnSwOll]

I always liked Remy. I thought he was one of the smarter Dutch-style Muay Thai practitioners I'd ever seen. But as for why he didn't get attacked strategically I think it boils down to his offense. He's quick for his size, so theres ALWAYS the threat of fast counters, and speed sucks just as bad as power. Getting hit with shit you don't see is no fun for anyone. And not only does he kick hard, but he knees hard and is light on his feet.

From what I've ever seen of him he endures body shots well, which is discouraging, especially when you're under a shorter time limit to win a bout. In the days when kickboxing was 10-12-15 rounds, I'm sure smart Fighters would invest in hitting his body a lot more, and at better angles to bust some of those organs up.

As far as the eye contact thing, Bernard Hopkins almost always looks like he's looking at the floor. He's not. He's using his peripherals. I do that a bit myself nowadays since my stance is lower than it used to be. When you have a lot of experience like these guys do, you can detect even the slightest tensing of an opponent, just with the corners of your eyes.

Yup ... i thought the same. His footwork n strong midsection combined with hard hard kicks. He broke Gokhan Saki's rib with one.....not his floating/lower rib....his UPPER ONE !!!
Interesting about his speed/counters. Didnt think of that. Scratch Remy from the list then. My speed is OK nothing spectacular.

Ive always liked guys like Remy,Wright. Good defense, less wear n tear on the body. Works good for my body type. Right now im told im too aggressive, dont use my range. I like to stay in the pocket,draw shots n counter, making it a battle of attrition. Not too smart considering my strengths which is good range,height,cool head n really long legs which could be better put to use in a more defensive style. Something like WW combined with kicks appeals to me.
Im trying to take the best of these guys plus Masato (his boxing oriented kicks) n Sato......love his leg kicks. Not trying to kill the leg (and your shin) with each shot but just chipping away with minimum tell.
His hands are sooo fuking low though.

 

[dtravis92]

Arthur Abraham is another one who really uses this style well IMO. I have been watching a lot of his fights recently. The defense that wright,clottey, and abraham use is my favorite by far. Almost nothing really lands clean on these guys

 

[NuTzOnSwOll]

Arthur Abraham is another one who really uses this style well IMO. I have been watching a lot of his fights recently. The defense that wright,clottey, and abraham use is my favorite by far. Almost nothing really lands clean on these guys

cant believe i forgot paul williams. His defense isnt so much in his hands as it is in his movement and his puch output....just love it.
hes the Sato of boxing or Sato is the Paul Williams of K1.

 

[Corey Roberts]

I do that a bit myself nowadays since my stance is lower than it used to be

Way off topic but this reminded of something i heard during the cotto foreman fight and i didn't think it was thread worthy so i'll ask u here.

At the start of the broadcast lampley was saying how cotto by style deficiency would rob himself of height and get low which is something emmanuel steward was working on him with trying to get him to stand up straight.

I thought getting low when you are short was a good thing, or was it how cotto would get low that was fundamentally wrong??

Or does steward have a hard on for boxer types and doesn't like pressure fighters.

 

[Sinister]

Or does steward have a hard on for boxer types and doesn't like pressure fighters.

This.

 

[NuTzOnSwOll]

This.

hey how does your coach tell u to do your bag work ?
Do you throw every shot max speed n power , full speed combos ?

 

[Sinister]

It's more about setting things up. Full speed and power isn't required. He'd rather you stay busy and keep your form good.

 

[Emiliaan]

How does this defense work in mma?

 

[Mentallooser]

How does this defense work in mma?

It really wouldn't. Winky has insanely large forearms and with boxing gloves makes him almost impossible to hit directly.

 

[Sensei Cecil]

It would work pretty well, actually...

The difference between Abraham, Clottey and Wright is that Winky has a jab.

 

[Mentallooser]

It would work pretty well, actually...

The difference between Abraham, Clottey and Wright is that Winky has a jab.

The jab is huge, the problem is that is becomes much easier to sneak punches threw, and around the smaller gloves. The high guard does work in MMA, I am not saying that it doesn't. Just wouldn't work in the same nature as in boxing.

Speaking of which, the jab is so criminally undervalued in MMA it's frightening.

 

[NuTzOnSwOll]

It's more about setting things up. Full speed and power isn't required. He'd rather you stay busy and keep your form good.

so how does he say u work max speed/power ? how do u know whats your limit.....how long u can throw at max ?

btw theres this guy at my gym...LHW , 90 fights. I dont think ive ever seen him move fast. Not during pads,bags or even sparring. Yet still , can barely touch him and eat shots all the way .
:icon_lol:

 

[dtravis92]

I saw this interesting video, about 2 minutes in Chris Eubank describes how Michael Watson would cover up and defend all of his punches. This goes against what i said earlier in this thread about the position of your wrists. If i put my hands up to cover like they say and hit my arm with the other hand then it seems like the force just goes straight through, Does anyone know how they absorb the force properly like this?

Has Mccallum ever taught you how to cover up properly Sinister? Or does he not really believe in that style of defense

 

[Sinister]

The jab is huge, the problem is that is becomes much easier to sneak punches threw, and around the smaller gloves.

You're only thinking of one thing, not everything. You're only thinking smaller gloves = easier to get through. What you're not thinking is what happens if smaller-gloved hangs bang on forearms and elbows. Broken hands.

so how does he say u work max speed/power ? how do u know whats your limit.....how long u can throw at max ?

That's what the focus mitts are for. And Mike doesn't usually break during mitt-work, it's usually 30-40 minutes, 10 second breaks here and there, full speed.

And of course, actual sparring. Multiple partners if possible.

Does anyone know how they absorb the force properly like this?

They usually lightly slap at the punches. Just averting the force from the face directly.

Has Mccallum ever taught you how to cover up properly Sinister? Or does he not really believe in that style of defense

He mentions it every now and again, but he'd rather not cover up. For reference, check his fight with Julian Jackson, the whole thing is on Youtube. Mike prefers to actively blend offense and defense, so the opponent can't distinguish one from the other. That's how he beat Julian, because Julian tried to swarm him. Mike took some damage very early, then began to make Julian miss, then started jabbing his face off, then bead the shit out of him.

Julian tried to peek-a-boo cover-up, but it didn't work.

 

[thelyricalmaste]

I wonder if McCallum would have developed more of a guard had he faced taller opponents. The Milton McCrory fight sticks out. McCrory fought the most disciplined and technically sharp fight of his career in the early rounds, and forced McCallum into making wild moves, by his standards, to close the distance.

Maybe it was a combination of McCrory's reach and his clean, untelegraphed punching, but McCallum probably would have had an easier time if kept a higher guard in that fight.



Back to Winky Wright, the jab was his favorite tool, but you have to be committed to breaking your opponent's momentum. It could be the jab, or the straight right Floyd Mayweather used against Zab Judah, but as we saw with Clottey you can lose rounds if you aren't great at finding openings.

 

[NuTzOnSwOll]

That's what the focus mitts are for. And Mike doesn't usually break during mitt-work, it's usually 30-40 minutes, 10 second breaks here and there, full speed.

And of course, actual sparring. Multiple partners if possible.

holy shit really ? 10-13 rds of pads with 10 second breaks ??? Max speed.....max power too ?

Shit man dont take this the wrong way but i just cant see that. Not that it isnt happening.....i just dont see it.
You go all out from start to finish ? halfway through its gotta get sloppy or does he get u to throw limited punches n work defense in between ?

 

[Emiliaan]

in mma shogun uses this kind of defense and it works