Wing Chun kicks should be banned in MMA

[JohnPJones]

At this point most styles in MMA are cross trained and modified to the point they barely resemble their traditional version.
To the point MMA is at the cross roads of no longer being mixed martial arts but being a mutant hybrid coming into its own style.

I think it goes to show most traditional styles do have things that simply don’t work or don’t work well enough and often enough to be trained, and that once you focus on techniques that work, and work regularly, you’re left with most of the same things, just with slight differences.

 

[Woldog]

I think it goes to show most traditional styles do have things that simply don’t work or don’t work well enough and often enough to be trained, and that once you focus on techniques that work, and work regularly, you’re left with most of the same things, just with slight differences.

Most styles weren't created with the intention of being used against others, they were created out of how people fought in that time and region.

Traditional boxing would get murdered now days if they fought a modern boxer

If I were to see a boxer coming at me with this stance, the next thing he'd be seeing is the back of his eyelids.

 

[JohnPJones]

Most styles weren't created with the intention of being used against others, they were created out of how people fought in that time and region.

Traditional boxing would get murdered now days if they fought a modern boxer

If I were to see a boxer coming at me with this stance, the next thing he'd be seeing is the back of his eyelids.

I agree and that’s why they all evolve when thrown into a full contact context.

 

[TheMaster]

At this point most styles in MMA are cross trained and modified to the point they barely resemble their traditional version.

Yes, which is why it's laughable and pathetic the number of people on here (the majority) who try to argue for example that Western boxing works perfectly vs systems like WC, when it's had to become virtually a different art to be effective in the cage and with the small gloves.

Most styles weren't created with the intention of being used against others, they were created out of how people fought in that time and region.

Traditional boxing would get murdered now days if they fought a modern boxer

If I were to see a boxer coming at me with this stance, the next thing he'd be seeing is the back of his eyelids.

Are you saying you think you could have taken John L Sullivan in a barefist fight?



Modern boxing does not prepare the hands to take those impacts.

Styles did evolve to face others but as you mention it was in the specific regions and in the context they faced.

MMA is also a context but benefits from the modern era of all the styles coming together.

 

[Woldog]

Are you saying you think you could have taken John L Sullivan in a barefist fight?



Modern boxing does not prepare the hands to take those impacts.

Styles did evolve to face others but as you mention it was in the specific regions and in the context they faced.

MMA is also a context but benefits from the modern era of all the styles coming together.

I'm saying his style has no chance. Him personally I don't know, never seen him fight and neither have you.
But he likely fought like these guys. Gloves or not if these guys hopped out of a time machine and went down to any pub in the world on a Friday night and went up to most guys there going "bully bully, pip pip huzzah" they'd end up unconscious.

 

[TheMaster]

I'm saying his style has no chance. Him personally I don't know, never seen him fight and neither have you.
But he likely fought like these guys. Gloves or not if these guys hopped out of a time machine and went down to any pub in the world on a Friday night and went up to most guys there going "bully bully, pip pip huzzah" they'd end up unconscious.

This is pure bs. That vid is of some random early gloved boxers also.

We only have one clip of an old Sullivan doing some shadow boxing.



First up you can't fight in the modern gloved style exactly like in BK.

They fought further at range and used the front hand to parry down body shots.


The used mainly straights to the body and face to not break the hands.
You would probably break your hands on their heads if you came in swinging.

The style is actually similar to WC with punches I think there is a connection.

https://www.wcarchive.com/articles/armando-sainz-revival-bare-knuckle-boxing.htm

You can't discount how BK boxing evolved over a 100 year period before the modern era and you have no reference point apart from the recent modern BK fights we have to say you could go in a time machine and clean house.

 

[Woldog]

This is pure bs. That vid is of some random early gloved idiots.

We only have one clip of an old Sullivan doing some shadow boxing.



First up you can't fight in the modern gloved style exactly like in BK.

They fought further at range and used the front hand to parry down body shots.


The used mainly straights to the body and face to not break the hands.
You would probably break your hands on their heads if you came in swinging.

The style is actually similar to WC with punches I think there is a connection.

https://www.wcarchive.com/articles/armando-sainz-revival-bare-knuckle-boxing.htm

You can't discount how BK boxing evolved over a 100 year period before the modern era and you have no reference point apart from the recent modern BK fights we have to say you could go in a time machine and clean house.

I think you really, just like assuming that I have brittle hands because I fought with gloves on. I've punched plenty of people with no gloves on and never broken my hand. I've got teeth scars all over my knuckles.

 

[TheMaster]

I think you really, just like assuming that I have brittle hands because I fought with gloves on. I've punched plenty of people with no gloves on and never broken my hand. I've got teeth scars all over my knuckles.

My point is you can't assume that they were clueless just because the stance looks different when they were fighting barefist and with more clinching allowed.

 

[Woldog]

My point is you can't assume that they were clueless just because the stance looks different when they were fighting barefist and with more clinching allowed.

I don't assume they are clueless, I assume they are fighting similar to everyone else in the time period and after 150 years of advancements and knowledge of how muscle and skeletal systems work and sports science, it would almost be a given that most people who trained nowdays would punch harder than them. Hand breaking or not, if you get a clean hit to the jaw (which these guys didn't seem to protect well with their stance) you get knocked out.
People in Ali's time didn't think they'd be considered dinosaurs technique wise, and yet 20 years later you've got Mike Tyson and RJJ changing the game. Styles change and adapt, in 30 years time I'm sure how I fought will be considered old as well.

Science continues to move forward. Don't forget these are the guys who used to soak their hands in horse piss to toughen the skin.

 

[TheMaster]

I don't assume they are clueless, I assume they are fighting similar to everyone else in the time period and after 150 years of advancements and knowledge of how muscle and skeletal systems work and sports science, it would almost be a given that most people who trained nowdays would punch harder than them. Hand breaking or not, if you get a clean hit to the jaw (which these guys didn't seem to protect well with their stance) you get knocked out.
People in Ali's time didn't think they'd be considered dinosaurs technique wise, and yet 20 years later you've got Mike Tyson and RJJ changing the game. Styles change and adapt, in 30 years time I'm sure how I fought will be considered old as well.

Science continues to move forward. Don't forget these are the guys who used to soak their hands in horse piss to toughen the skin.

It's speculation, given the 150 years of evolution happened in basically a different sport.
That's why I say to look at BKFC and how it evolves. Right now they are getting pieced up and boxers that cross over are not dominating or showing amazing technique if this so called evolution was so great.

 

[Woldog]

It's speculation, given the 150 years of evolution happened in basically a different sport.
That's why I say to look at BKFC and how it evolves. Right now they are getting pieced up and boxers that cross over are not dominating or showing amazing technique if this so called evolution was so great.

What boxers lol. Paulie Malginaggi? hahahahaah

 

[TheMaster]

What boxers lol. Paulie Malginaggi? hahahahaah

Sigmon has been in there with Roy Jones.
This is humiliating for boxing.

 

[Woldog]

Sigmon has been in there with Roy Jones.
This is humiliating for boxing.

Scott Sigmond is an average boxer and fought Roy Jones Jr in 2018. Hardly what I'd call one of the best. It's not humiliating for boxing at all. People come to boxing and get beaten up, boxers go to other sports and get beaten up it's almost like they're different sports.

Most pure boxers dedicate their lives to that one craft. I cross trained with Muay thai and MMA. Do you think the best BKB would beat Canelo Alvarez easily, just because pf the lack of gloves? and vice versa.

What's humiliating for boxers, is if someone comes to boxing, and knocks out a boxer.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

Giving someone brain damage is fine but ACL and MCL tears cross the line.........


I never known a knee injury that lead to someone drooling uncontrollably or having severe memory issues in their old age. I do know head trauma that has though.

 

[TheMaster]

Scott Sigmond is an average boxer and fought Roy Jones Jr in 2018. Hardly what I'd call one of the best. It's not humiliating for boxing at all. People come to boxing and get beaten up, boxers go to other sports and get beaten up it's almost like they're different sports.

Most pure boxers dedicate their lives to that one craft. I cross trained with Muay thai and MMA. Do you think the best BKB would beat Canelo Alvarez easily, just because pf the lack of gloves? and vice versa.

What's humiliating for boxers, is if someone comes to boxing, and knocks out a boxer.

This was boxing. Very slight minor modifications but basically 90% straight boxing.
If a boxer cant even adapt to such tiny minor changes what kind of style is it?

It also shows that in MMA, what they are doing isn't 'boxing' whatsoever,and this attitude of disrespect toward TMAs as though boxing is 'proven' in MMA is ridiculous just because far more of them already train a combat sport and cross over then totally modify and change what they are doing.

 

[Woldog]

This was boxing. Very slight minor modifications but basically 90% straight boxing.
If a boxer cant even adapt to such tiny minor changes what kind of style is it?

It also shows that in MMA, what they are doing isn't 'boxing' whatsoever,and this attitude of disrespect toward TMAs as though boxing is 'proven' in MMA is ridiculous just because far more of them already train a combat sport and cross over the totally modify what they are doing.

The disrespect to TMA, is this. Most of them suck. There are literally thousands of videos of their practitioners getting ragdolled by Boxers, MMA fighters, bar fighters, cab drivers you name it.
Boxing is pure striking about as pure as it can get. It's still won more fights than every other martial art combined.

 

[TheMaster]

Boxing is pure striking about as pure as it can get.

Not really. It's pure punching with heavily restrictive rules and protection.
The most pure striking style out there is probably Lethwei.

It's still won more fights than every other martial art combined.

If you count every guy swinging outside a pub as a 'boxer' because he watched it on TV.
It's the most widely practiced striking combat sport and most watched combat sport in the world and has been for generations.
Quite a huge advantage but doesn't mean
its anything near the best system as MMA to Triller fights have shown.

 

[Woldog]

Not really. It's pure punching with heavily restrictive rules and protection.
The most pure striking style out there is probably Lethwei.

If you count every guy swinging outside a pub as a 'boxer' because he watched it on TV.
It's the most widely practiced striking combat sport and most watched combat sport in the world and has been for generations.
Quite a huge advantage but doesn't mean
its anything near the best system as MMA to Triller fights have shown.

I think we can boil this entire discussion down to different styles have different uses. and leave it at that before we have 50 more pages of us arguing about it.

 

[TheMaster]

I think we can boil this entire discussion down to different styles have different uses. and leave it at that before we have 50 more pages of us arguing about it.

Sure, but I get attacked here by idiots all the time simply for saying that Wing Chun works and is a highly dangerous style if trained effectively.

I'm not the one out here saying,
"I coulda whooped John L. Sullivan in a barefist fight dawg"


At least back it up if you're going to be talking like that or else STFU.

You could at least do one BK fight to see if your style converts if you're going to make those kinds of claims, you have the amateur background right, so should be no problem

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08...tralias-queen-of-bare-knuckle-boxing/10126582

 

[Woldog]

Sure, but I get attacked here by idiots all the time simply for saying that Wing Chun works and is a highly dangerous style if trained effectively.

I'm not the one out here sayinig,
"I coulda whooped John L. Sullivan in a barefist fight dawg"


At least back it up if you're going to be talking like that or else STFU.

You should at least do one BK fight to see if your style converts if you're going to make those kinds of claims, you have the amateur background right so should be no problem

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08...tralias-queen-of-bare-knuckle-boxing/10126582

Jesus. Try to have some contribution to your thread and this is responses I get.
Bud I'll tell you what, you come to Australia or I'll come to you and we can have a bareknuckle fight. Then you can report back how it goes.
I've fought enough people without gloves to know I can beat someone without gloves. I've even fought in MMA gloves multiple times. My knuckles aren't scarred to shit with teeth scars from wearing gloves.
Funny you post an article of someone I've personally trained with (over 100 times) and seen her posting on Sherdog on her phone lmao.

I would be open to fighting in a bare knuckle fight anytime anywhere, send me a contract.