Why shouldn't # of title defenses be the gold standard for determining GOAT status?

[NikLuk]

I ask this in good faith.

Don’t worry, Frank. You’re still the GOAT.

 

[ThunderStruck]

Hughes, Penn, Sherk? Trigg?...who else?

Silva had Franklin, Horn, Sakurai and Newton if im not mistaken

Pretty sure that Spratt was top 5.

That's besides the point. My point is that i hear the "But Silva and GSP got a title shot after only 1 or 2 fights so it boosted the amount of title defense while Usman needed like 7 wins to earn his first title shot" argument neglect the fact both Silva and GSP had multiple top 5 and top 10 wins before earning their first UFC defense. In fact they both had more top 5 and top 10 wins before their first defense than Usman had before his first.

 

[ThunderStruck]

3 title shots in his 1st 8 fights in the UFC before his reign.

Whats your point?

 

[mangokush]

Whats your point?

That fighters like Usman & Khabib had to win 9-10 fights in a row in the UFC before getting 1x title shot while GSP got 3 title shots in 8 fights in the UFC before his reign

Had fighters like Usman or Khabib were given 3 title shots in 8 fights they most likely would have double digit title defenses.

 

[ThunderStruck]

That fighters like Usman & Khabib had to win 9-10 fights in a row in the UFC before getting 1x title while GSP got 3 title shots in 8 fights in the UFC before his reign

Had fighters like Usman or Khabib were given 3 title shots in 8 fights they most likely would have double digit title defenses.

You missed the whole point. Thats not about when you get your first title shot, thats when you start getting title defense. GSP and Silva had more top 5 and top 10 wins before earning their first ufc defense than Usman did. Fact.

Get it?

 

[pankrat]

Pretty sure that Spratt was top 5.

That's besides the point. My point is that i hear the "But Silva and GSP got a title shot after only 1 or 2 fights so it boosted the amount of title defense while Usman needed like 7 wins to earn his first title shot" argument neglect the fact both Silva and GSP had multiple top 5 and top 10 wins before earning their first UFC defense. In fact they both had more top 5 and top 10 wins before their first defense than Usman had before his first.

Yeah they definitely were legitimate contenders

 

[acannxr]

In fact they both had more top 5 and top 10 wins before their first defense than Usman had before his first.

Usman had two top ten wins at Welterweight (Maia, RDA) before he got a title shot.
GSP had zero top ten wins at Welterweight before his first title shot and four top ten wins (Miller, Trigg, Sherk, Penn) before his second title shot.
Silva had two top wins at Middleweight (Stiebling, Horn) before he got a title shot.

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...t-top-10-ranked-wins-at-welterweight.4148313/

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...t-top-10-ranked-wins-at-middleweight.4148327/

 

[mangokush]

You missed the whole point. Thats not about when you get your first title shot, thats when you start getting title defense. GSP and Silva had more top 5 and top 10 wins before earning their first ufc defense than Usman did. Fact.

Get it?

Those top 5 wins wouldn't even be considered top 20 wins these days skill wise

The level of comp to get even 1x title shot now is much harder than back then when GSP got multiple title shots in his first few UFC fights.

Usman would have beaten all those fighters too but would not have not been given multiple title shots like GSP because other reasons...

 

[ThunderStruck]

Usman had two top ten wins at Welterweight (Maia, RDA) before he got a title shot.
GSP had zero top ten wins at Welterweight before his first title shot and four top ten wins (Miller, Trigg, Sherk, Penn) before his second title shot.
Silva had two top wins at Middleweight (Stiebling, Horn) before he got a title shot.

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...t-top-10-ranked-wins-at-welterweight.4148313/

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...t-top-10-ranked-wins-at-middleweight.4148327/

Were talking about title defense. How many top 10 wins before their first defense.

 

[kflo]

Its all 1 vs 1 sports. Most 1 vs 1 sports just so happen to be combat sports.

P4p GOAT arguments are a common theme in golf and tennis but the demographic is a bit more bearable when they discuss it lol

golf and tennis are more measurable with far more data points also.

 

[acannxr]

Were talking about title defense. How many top 10 wins before their first defense.

Just add one to the numbers I provided (except GSP's "zero").

 

[DagOban**]

Nothing is harder to achieve.

So few fighters have them, even less in big numbers.

I repeat, there is no greater achievement.

 

[ThunderStruck]

Just add one to the numbers I provided (except GSP's "zero").

Nah actually, according to your list, GSP had 8 top 10 wins before his first defense.

So the argument that he got many title defense just because he got fast tracked to title shots is wrong.

 

[BrunswickMAF]

Because:

1. Strength of schedule (Example: Bisping title defense against a 50 year old losing record Hendo is a joke) level of competition you fight is what it’s all about.

2. If that’s the main criteria then title fight LOSSES should also factor in: GSP has 2 of them, and he was finished in both.

In the first round for both too

 

[Fioretti]

While it’s not the only thing that matters, it’s probably the best thing one can have on their resume in my mind. I believe it’s the hardest thing to do in the sport, especially for a long time. Harder to keep the drive and motivation when you’ve already obtained the ultimate goal. Not to mention all the attention and pressure that comes along with it, lots of noise and distractions. The longer you keep the title, you also get challengers that have been looking at you and breaking down your game years before they were on your radar. In the end though, it’s all subjective and some take this topic too seriously.

Very good post, my dude. Well said.

 

[kflo]

Nothing is harder to achieve.

So few fighters have them, even less in big numbers.

I repeat, there is no greater achievement.

and there are other things to consider when ranking your top fighters. there is no stat that can give you the answer.

 

[HHJ]

So if you went 0 for 25 and win a belt next then defend and go 30 and 25 or 20 and 25

20 to 30 title defences in a row unheared of youre not the goat? And suck dick cause of youre losses previously ...

You guys are jokes man foreal you will come up with any excuse or idea opinion to fit a narrative.

If you never lost you might have ben favored stylistically every fight. And didnt fight the right people.

If you won 20 title defences in a row youre prolly one high iq fighter that deserves goat status..

Stylistically favored should not factor that much. Top ranked fighter is top ranked fighter

 

[kflo]

Stylistically favored should not factor that much. Top ranked fighter is top ranked fighter

Even top ranked can be reevaluated. Quality can be reconsidered with more information. Again it’s not simply a statistical exercise.

 

[pankrat]

Usman had two top ten wins at Welterweight (Maia, RDA) before he got a title shot.
GSP had zero top ten wins at Welterweight before his first title shot and four top ten wins (Miller, Trigg, Sherk, Penn) before his second title shot.
Silva had two top wins at Middleweight (Stiebling, Horn) before he got a title shot.

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...t-top-10-ranked-wins-at-welterweight.4148313/

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...t-top-10-ranked-wins-at-middleweight.4148327/

When you make this kind of posts you should make clear that your source is FightMtrix, which is not only heavily flawed but it didnt even exist back in the time this discussion is about lol

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Finally he was banned. Lol.

Da fook took so long?

Damn, what happened?