Why Khabib is the GOAT

That's dumb reasoning. The main reason they were P4P was because LW was throwing interim belts like candy. Top contenders in other divisions weren't usually P4P.
 
Blanqa Blanqua said:
GOAT cherry picker, maybe


<Fedor23>




<6>





<JonesDXSuckIt>
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I wouldn't call him a cherry picker so much as just someone without a good matchup in his division at the time. Not his fault, but also disqualifies him from being the GOAT at this time. Other champs fought for much longer and had to face tougher stylistic matchups than Khabib ever did.

Beating the three guys in the OP will never make anyone the GOAT. Others have faced much tougher competition.

Khabib could be the GOAT, but he hasn't proved it yet. Someone will have to talk his mom into letting him come back if he is to have a chance of proving he is the GOAT.
 
Some say that while Khabib did the chicken dance against blown up featherweight Gleison Tibau

and losing rounds against a hangovered, coked up, zero training Conor who had just gotten KO'd by a washed up Floyd, and whose n°2 P4P rank was 100% a publicity stunt...



A certain Gilbert "Giblert" Melendez had a great run as the Strikeforce champion, beating, from 2009 to 2012,
- Mitsuhiro Ishida
-Josh "The Punk" Thompson
- Shinya Aoki
- Tatsuya "Crusher" Kawaijiri
- Jorge "2 times UFC WW contender & BMF title holder" Masvidal
- and Josh Thompson again!

Melendez 's run was only stopped by a controversial split decision loss against prime, UFC champ Bendo.
MEDIA SCORES
FightMetric.com 50-48 Henderson
Tristen Critchfield
Sherdog.com 48-47 Henderson
Mike Whitman
Sherdog.com 48-47 Henderson
MMAWeekly.com 48-47 Henderson
Craig Amos
BleacherReport.com 48-47 Henderson
Luke Thomas
MMAFighting.com 48-47 Henderson
John Pollock
Fight Network 48-47 Henderson
Adam Martin
Sportsnet.ca 47-48 Melendez
Jason Floyd
TheMMAReport.com 47-48 Melendez
MMAJunkie.com 47-48 Melendez
Chris Nelson
Sherdog.com 47-48 Melendez
Nathan McCarter
BleacherReport.com 47-48 Melendez
Brent Brookhouse
BloodyElbow.com 46-49 Melendez

It was too bad to see poor Giblert lose so many times in the UFC after that, even if it's worth noting that one of those losses was another split decision against prime (just 2 fights before he snatched the belt) Eddie Alvarez.

Yes, that the fight where Eddie almost blew his eye out
3456bf36551a4b363738d13ebf0c15ff.gif




Speaking of; Eddie Alvarez has 2 great trios of victories; one in 2012/2013 =>
- Shinya Aoki
- Patricky "Pitbull" Freire
- Michael Chandler

The other in 2015/2016 =>
- Gilbert Melendez
- Anthony Pettis (who was considered by a massive chunk of Sherdog to have surpassed BJ Penn as LW GOAT after his second victory over Bendo)
- UFC champ RDA

His DREAM 2008 LWGP was also fantastic, beating in 2008 alone =>
- André "Dida" Amadé (who was on fire at the back, and was considered Chute Boxe's hottest prospect, Sakuraba's own disciple and would a year later almost finish Buakaw in the first round of their Muay-Thai bout)
- Joachim Hansen, the old head here know how adored he was on Sherdog; a brutal & technical elite fighter
- Tatsuya "Crusher" Kawaijiri


Just a couple of examples to reminds ourselves that ots of fighters have had fantastic careers, and had they stopped at exactly the right time, could have kept some sort of "Khabib mystique".

Recency bias is a thing.
(Let's see if Khabib can keep on trending now that McGregor has moved on Poirier for good)


I don't know if newer fans realize the immense popularity that Anthony Showtime Pettis

enjoyed by the time he had beaten Bendo a second time, this one by armbar, and then derailed the Strikeforce champion Melendez via guillotine.

Before that, 2 KOTN against ranked beasts like pure prime Cowboy Cerrone and 100% prime Joe Lauzon <mma4> he was on boxes of Wheaties 'n all, shit was so cash.
Complete package.
Had Pettis pulled a Khabib and retired right there on top, instead of fighting RDA next, I like to believe that he would still be in the discussion when talking top 3 LW ever.

He still had some great fights after, especially his incredible KO of Wonderboy Thompson, his guillotinage of Do Bronx Oliveira and his beautiful armbar of Michael Chiesa but it became 1 win, 1 loss, 1 win, 1 loss, etc etc...
 
Richard Fannin said:
Some say that while Khabib did the chicken dance against blown up featherweight Gleison Tibau

and losing rounds against a hangovered, coked up, zero training Conor who had just gotten KO'd by a washed up Floyd, and whose n°2 P4P rank was 100% a publicity stunt...



A certain Gilbert "Giblert" Melendez had a great run as the Strikeforce champion, beating, from 2009 to 2012,
- Mitsuhiro Ishida
-Josh "The Punk" Thompson
- Shinya Aoki
- Tatsuya "Crusher" Kawaijiri
- Jorge "2 times UFC WW contender & BMF title holder" Masvidal
- and Josh Thompson again!

Melendez 's run was only stopped by a controversial split decision loss against prime, UFC champ Bendo.
MEDIA SCORES
FightMetric.com 50-48 Henderson
Tristen Critchfield
Sherdog.com 48-47 Henderson
Mike Whitman
Sherdog.com 48-47 Henderson
MMAWeekly.com 48-47 Henderson
Craig Amos
BleacherReport.com 48-47 Henderson
Luke Thomas
MMAFighting.com 48-47 Henderson
John Pollock
Fight Network 48-47 Henderson
Adam Martin
Sportsnet.ca 47-48 Melendez
Jason Floyd
TheMMAReport.com 47-48 Melendez
MMAJunkie.com 47-48 Melendez
Chris Nelson
Sherdog.com 47-48 Melendez
Nathan McCarter
BleacherReport.com 47-48 Melendez
Brent Brookhouse
BloodyElbow.com 46-49 Melendez

It was too bad to see poor Giblert lose so many times in the UFC after that, even if it's worth noting that one of those losses was another split decision against prime (just 2 fights before he snatched the belt) Eddie Alvarez.

Yes, that the fight where Eddie almost blew his eye out
3456bf36551a4b363738d13ebf0c15ff.gif




Speaking of; Eddie Alvarez has 2 great trios of victories; one in 2012/2013 =>
- Shinya Aoki
- Patricky "Pitbull" Freire
- Michael Chandler

The other in 2015/2016 =>
- Gilbert Melendez
- Anthony Pettis (who was considered by a massive chunk of Sherdog to have surpassed BJ Penn as LW GOAT after his second victory over Bendo)
- UFC champ RDA

His DREAM 2008 LWGP was also fantastic, beating in 2008 alone =>
- André "Dida" Amadé (who was on fire at the back, and was considered Chute Boxe's hottest prospect, Sakuraba's own disciple and would a year later almost finish Buakaw in the first round of their Muay-Thai bout)
- Joachim Hansen, the old head here know how adored he was on Sherdog; a brutal & technical elite fighter
- Tatsuya "Crusher" Kawaijiri


Just a couple of examples to reminds ourselves that ots of fighters have had fantastic careers, and had they stopped at exactly the right time, could have kept some sort of "Khabib mystique".

Recency bias is a thing.
(Let's see if Khabib can keep on trending now that McGregor has moved on Poirier for good)


I don't know if newer fans realize the immense popularity that Anthony Showtime Pettis

enjoyed by the time he had beaten Bendo a second time, this one by armbar, and then derailed the Strikeforce champion Melendez via guillotine.

Before that, 2 KOTN against ranked beasts like pure prime Cowboy Cerrone and 100% prime Joe Lauzon <mma4> he was on boxes of Wheaties 'n all, shit was so cash.
Complete package.
Had Pettis pulled a Khabib and retired right there on top, instead of fighting RDA next, I like to believe that he would still be in the discussion when talking top 3 LW ever.

He still had some great fights after, especially his incredible KO of Wonderboy Thompson, his guillotinage of Do Bronx Oliveira and his beautiful armbar of Michael Chiesa but it became 1 win, 1 loss, 1 win, 1 loss, etc etc...
Click to expand...

Melendez was on PED's his whole career though.
 
BusterBarry said:
View attachment 857904

It's simply really. I can prove it with just these 2 points:

1. Khabib beat back to back 3 P4P top 10 Ranked fighters.

2. Khabib finished all 3 P4P top 10 Ranked fighters

This is the greatest 3 consecutive win streak in MMA History! I dare Sherdog and Khabib haters to find a better 3 fight win streak :D


Your personal GOAT has not beaten 3 top 10 p4p ranked fighters back to back let alone finish them!


Their official UFC P4P rankings before they fought and lost to Khabib

Justin gaethje #7
https://www.mma-stats.com/rankings/2020-10-19

Dustin Poirier #8
https://www.mma-stats.com/rankings/2019-09-02

Conrat #2
https://www.mma-stats.com/rankings/2018-09-24


View attachment 857909




Khabib Bless



Accept my challenge and name a fighter that has beaten and finished 3 p4p elite fighters back to back

If you can't then shut up and scatter away
Click to expand...

TBH those P4P rankings are pretty warped. The idea Conor was #2 at the point he had the fight is mind blowingly disrespectful to other UFC fighters IMO.

There has clearly been some UFC P4P manipulation to have this happen.

Jones run of
Bader, Rua, Rampage, Machida, Evans, Belfort, Sonnen, Gus, Tex, DC is pretty sick. Pretty much a multiple generation every possible contender in LHW and a lot longer than Khabib's run (and only part of the championship run!). There would have been at least 3 P4P top 10's in that run probably more.

Khabib never had a run like that.
 
LMAO

Khabib has only 4 good wins from which 2 already aged badly

Only fought bloated featherweight strikers. Tibau beat him 30-27
 
Mr Fahrenheit said:
Agree that this isn’t clear cut but I think you are picking and choosing a bit here.

For starters, no, you cannot promise that any version of Tony loses to DP/JG/CM. It’s revisionist nonsense the way fans have declared that the dangerous guys that Tony DID fight (and beat) were actually all just washed and the dangerous guys that he DID NOT fight are, by an astonishing coincidence, all guys who would have beaten him. If he’d never fought Barboza, Cerrone or Pettis you guys would be claiming that they would’ve styled on him like Justin and if he hadn’t fought Lee, Tibau and RDA you guys would be claiming that they would’ve smothered him like Charles and Beneil. Once Tony hit his stride in that winning streak (beginning was admittedly so-so), by hook or by crook he ended up being too much for every single guy he faced. He stopped almost all of them and the only guys who survived (Thomson and RDA) are warriors who absorbed a ton of abuse. During that same period of time Conor lost to Nate Diaz, Dustin lost to Michael Johnson, and Justin lost to Eddie Alvarez.

Moving on to some of your data points:

• I don’t think it’s reasonable to discount a win over the Pride 185 champ, who had just sparked Wanderlei at 205, because he lost a competitive decision to a larger Rampage who was a champion and at the peak of his powers. Would we throw out a win over Izzy right now at 185 because he’s coming off a competitive decision loss to Jan at 205? Same exact thing.

• The nature of 205 when Jon arrived was a small group of similarly skilled guys who passed the belt around. So yea, they wouldn’t have been on long winning streaks when they faced Jon, because they kept beating one another. You characterize it as if they all just backed into a title shot, but the reality is that the four had separated themselves from the pack (by sparking legends like Liddell, Wanderlei and Randy and fending off very tough challenges from guys like Henderson, Hamill, Thiago Silva, Bisping, Jardine, Tito and Forrest (who also happened to be the one guy to grab a win against this group who wasn’t in the group around this time).

• Fitch was at least as established as a P4P guy when he faced Georges as DP and JG were when they fought Khabib (Conor is a weird one, he had more genuine title credentials but was also in a new division and coming off a long layoff). He came into the UFC on a big winning streak, then won a bunch more in a row (I think 8) to get his title shot, then ran off a bunch more (I think maybe 5) before his draw with Penn. Fitch very likely would have been a champion for many years across many defenses had it not been for GSP.

• Alves has become very under-appreciated over time IMO. It’s been largely forgotten, but 170 was essentially that era’s version of what the stacked lightweight division is today, and Alves best comp is ironically probably Gaethje only without a loss comparable to Alvarez. Like Gaethje, Alves got beat by both the world champion and the guy widely considered to be the MMA version of the intercontinental champion (Fitch/Poirier), but otherwise smashed pretty much everyone. The welterweight division that spanned the back end of the Hughes reign and the front end of the GSP reign had, IMO, had a tier of contenders that largely separated itself from the pack (Fitch, Alves, Koscheck, Sanchez, Parysian, ultimately in that order based on the results) and then a bunch of very tough guys below that (guys like Nick Diaz, Chris Lytle, Josh Burkman, Mike Swick, Matt Serra, Drew Fickett, Joe Riggs, etc.). Alves capped off the dominant winning streak that lead up to his title shot with stoppages of Hughes, Karo and Lytle and the brutal leg kick clinic on Koscheck. He couldn’t keep Georges or Fitch off him, but he was otherwise the best welterweight in the UFC for a solid five year period. Crushing Fitch, BJ and Alves in row is a serious accomplishment. If GSP took as many hiatuses as Khabib did, is almost certain that Fitch and Alves would’ve been wearing interim belts the same way DP and JG were.

We are ultimately gonna end up splitting hairs here, because all of these guys cleaned out their division (well, Khabib didn’t quite but he came close enough).
Click to expand...
Your style and my style of writing are completely different. I am jealous of thr way you can elegantly convey your points lol

I will speak in broad terms from with lot of hot takes.

Hot take number 1:
Tony Ferguson can't beat elite strikers (MJ & JG) and elite grapplers (Aloe Vera & Dariush). He beats on muaythai/TKD guys that don't like pressure all day (Pettis, cowbum & Barboza)

Hot take number 2:
Tony's only elite win is RDA. RDA lost to alvarez the fight before plus had a fallout with Cordeiro and left Kings. Plus he had been having issues cutting to 155. It's no wonder he left for 170 immediately after the Tony fight

Hot take number 3:
Wtf was tony doing?! Why was he fighting the Kevin lees, Pettis and cowboys of the World? How come he wasn't in on the action Dustin, Justin and Eddie were having? Those dudes were destroying eachother were as Tony was fighting these bums! Can you explain this?
It seems like he was cherrypicking after the RDA fight

Hot take number 4:
DP >> Fitch
DP is 11-2 and 1nc at LW
He would have been on a streak of 10 wins if it weren't for MJ sparking him out cold. Plus Fitch doesn't have a win over ATG comparable to DP's win over Max

JG >>> Alves
JG is 22-3. As a former WSOF champion he was thrown immediately into the lions den. He fought nothing but top 10 guys since his debut. Maybe Vick was outside of the top 10 but he was top 15 atleast.
JG ending TF prime ranks him highly for me personally

Conrat < BJ Penn
Conrat's win over aldo is something else man. 13 fucking seconds lol
I hate the guy but that might be the best win any fighter has ever gotten. His FW career is pretty even with BJ penn's LW career. Aldo + Mendes + DP = Joe daddy + Sherk + KF + Pulver

Hughes >> Alvarez
If conrat fought and beaten Tony like I think he would I would have have it equal here

Hot Take number 5:
205 is trash and jones fought nothing but washed dudes with a lot of mileage on their bodies. Plus dudes had every size advantage you could name. 205 of today atleast has real big 205ers. Let's see how jones does now. I will ofcourse take into account that he most likely is past prime today.


Last Hot Take:
Khabib's ability to come back for long hiatus because of gruesome injuries and unfair suspensions must be praised. Ring rust is not an excuse for Khabib. Whenever he comes back he's always in peak condition. That's just one his many intangibles

Khabib has the most intangibles of every fighter I have ever seen. Dude must be the GOAT only based on his crazy intangibles :D
 
P4P is all opinion. Just like GOAT talk. So heres MY opinion on what makes a goat, and who are the goats.

fedor
Anderson
Gsp
Jones

they all showed dominance for an extremely long period of time at the highest level and consistently beat all of them. Khabib was on the road, but he didn’t do it long enough.

I do say anderson’s steroid bust put him down a bit, or else i’d say he was the clear goat.

gsp’s loss to hughes and serra hurt him just a bit, or else he would be the clear goat

fedor’s dominant run and beating the best HWs in the world at the time for a 10 year stretch is incredible, but his loss to werdum and bigfoot hurt him just a bit or else he would be the clear goat

jones title defenses and beating every LHW for another 10 year stretch is incredible. But his steroid bust also put him down or else he would be the clear goat.

Khabib is not on my list because he didnt defend his title long enough. Being the champ means everyone is gunning for you, and u must eliminate them all. Khabib did not clean house, he beat a few top guys at the time (who also had lots of losses themselves). And then walked away. That to me just isnt dominant long enough to be a great. Tyron woodley has more defenses than khabib...and look what happened to him. If woodley retired before losing to usman, you guys might even call him a goat WW lol.
 
tehMoose said:
LMAO

Khabib has only 4 good wins from which 2 already aged badly

Only fought bloated featherweight strikers. Tibau beat him 30-27
Click to expand...
Moose lost to a guy with just 10 fights lol
Plus he ran away from the UFC to fight welterweights in bellashit :D
 
Hey Soos said:
Khabib's resume is dogshit compared to Jones, Demetrious Johnson, GSP, and Anderson Silva. Literally only has 3 title defenses than ran away. ''I fight for legacy''. If you want to know the real GOAT, it's Jones. More title defenses, more wins, more finishes, defeated more champions.

Jones has defeated Machida, Rashad evans, Rampage, Daniel Cormier, shogun.

Khabib defeated conor, gaethje, and poirer.

Who do you think has the better wins ?

Seriously you khabib nut huggers can barely justify defend his goat rankings.
Click to expand...
You mean the Jon 'asterisk' Jones who hid under ring for 8 hrs? Wonder why anyone would question his legacy
 
surgeyou1 said:
That's dumb reasoning. The main reason they were P4P was because LW was throwing interim belts like candy. Top contenders in other divisions weren't usually P4P.
Click to expand...
No they were P4P because they beat p4p guys like Max and Tony

You take their spot when you beat them.

Conrat was p4p because he p4p #1 Aldo in 13 secs and he went up a weight class and beat p4p ranked eddie
 
Khabib is unique and his achievements are great. But he’s not the GOAT though. He needs few more wins and go up a weight class to truly be the GOAT. He’s #3 right now, just behind GSP and Jones
 
BusterBarry said:
View attachment 857904

It's simply really. I can prove it with just these 2 points:

1. Khabib beat back to back 3 P4P top 10 Ranked fighters.

2. Khabib finished all 3 P4P top 10 Ranked fighters

This is the greatest 3 consecutive win streak in MMA History! I dare Sherdog and Khabib haters to find a better 3 fight win streak :D


Your personal GOAT has not beaten 3 top 10 p4p ranked fighters back to back let alone finish them!


Their official UFC P4P rankings before they fought and lost to Khabib

Justin gaethje #7
https://www.mma-stats.com/rankings/2020-10-19

Dustin Poirier #8
https://www.mma-stats.com/rankings/2019-09-02

Conrat #2
https://www.mma-stats.com/rankings/2018-09-24


View attachment 857909




Khabib Bless



Accept my challenge and name a fighter that has beaten and finished 3 p4p elite fighters back to back

If you can't then shut up and scatter away
Click to expand...

He's not.
 
BusterBarry said:
Answer this challenge :D

"Accept my challenge and name a fighter that has beaten and finished 3 p4p elite fighters back to back

If you can't then shut up and scatter away"
Click to expand...

Since when was Justin p4p elite. Fucking lol. And Conor is good now? He was inactive for like TWO years before he fought Khabib. LOL
 
JustOnce said:
Since when was Justin p4p elite. Fucking lol. And Conor is good now? He was inactive for like TWO years before he fought Khabib. LOL
Click to expand...
It's clear you haven't read my post. I provided proof of their p4p rankings with links

You're getting boring mate. Contribute or go troll elsewhere :D
 
He is no doubt a great fighter, and one of the top lw goats. A very good fighter, but more a product of marketing than a p4p goat.

Khabib is still a bit unproven. If he fights a few great grapplers at lw, and a few top WWs, we can start talking top 5 goat. He might lose a few and win a few, but it will still be much better for his goat-legacy that he steps up to really prove himself.
 
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