Why John Danaher Refused to Shake Hands with Mike Davila at EBI

[Uchi Mata]

i don't follow him either, and i know his posts are rubbish.

i think he's excellent at teaching jiu jitsu, too. but that has absolutely nothing to do with him being an arrogant, self-centered asshole.

Bingo. I don't know how many analytic philosophers y'all have met, but they're typically not cuddly, humble people with a well balanced sense of their own abilities. And being a brilliant jiu jitsu mind has nothing to do with being a great person.

 

[Uchi Mata]

Is it true Danaher is the one behind trying to keep the system secret?
I just saw Garry Tonon crucifying the guy who made that leg lock youtube series.
And these deathsquad guys are doing seminars so the system cant be that much of a secret.

You're assuming they teach all the real shit at the seminars. Which I would hope they do since people are paying for it, but they do seem to have a bit of a 'hold something back' culture.

 

[Zankou]

Danaher spelled it out pretty clearly. Davila did not respect his team or his coaches, he just dove on the EBI Hollywood rainbow dream behind his coaches' and teammates' backs. He didn't care how disruptive it would be to them or the school, he just wanted the limelight for himself, even after all that was done for him to get him to reach this point in his martial art journey.

Wins & losses don't determine who is right, nor do they mete out justice; that said, I'm glad Davila got choked.

#ImWith(Dana)Her

Cultspeak.

I take it you think the other 7 guys who were expelled were also disrespectful and disloyal, and so received just punishment for their betrayal of The Group. By cult standards, true, the purge was warranted since these traitors 'disrupted group harmony' and 'defied Dear Leader,' which is 'most disrespectful.'

I can't take seriously a grown man who lets another grown man treat him like this and, even worse, makes excuses for it--particularly in the context of a niche sport that you pay to train, not a medieval daimyo's keep. Have some self respect. Davila being told he wasn't good enough and needs to turn the invite down; that's flat-out disgusting, objectively he WAS good enough, and he should never have accepted that. You want to talk life lessons you can take from training, one of the biggest is to stand up for yourself, to know that you are a capable person, and not be a bitch.

Only in martial arts would some grown men dream of taking orders like this. Even in business, where you are doing a paid job, nobody would tolerate this level of employee control that continues even after you quit. It's because people want a Magical Master, and to forget that this is, after all, just athletes training a niche sport, not samurai in Sengoku.

 

[climax]

Wasn't Mike invited to EBI because he won the finisher tournament which was being billed on some level as a qualifier to EBI?

Anyone would agree that if Davila had snuck his way in at the expense of another teammate through nefarious means that there would be a reasonable issue and removing him from the team could make sense.

That said, if Davila essentially qualified through a tournament and was invited, I don't understand why that should be taken away from him even if he isn't the best on the team. If what I hear about the qualification is true and he was invited due to that (and not him messaging people, posting on social media, etc...), it sounds like they expected Davila to give up a spot he qualified for to Tonon because Tonon is more qualified and it would be better for him. Seems unreasonable if that is indeed the case.

 

[OldManbjj]

Sounds like total cultish RGA nonsense horse shit. He got himself into EBI and he got to the semis. He should be thrilled that someone in the middle of the pack could do that. Nothing Danaher says matters because the kid delivered. He just sounds like a bitch plain and simple.

I have never heard of gym taps being worth anything until his post.

 

[Peteyandjia]

Cultspeak.

I take it you think the other 7 guys who were expelled were also disrespectful and disloyal, and so received just punishment for their betrayal of The Group. By cult standards, true, the purge was warranted since these traitors 'disrupted group harmony' and 'defied Dear Leader,' which is 'most disrespectful.'

I can't take seriously a grown man who lets another grown man treat him like this and, even worse, makes excuses for it--particularly in the context of a niche sport that you pay to train, not a medieval daimyo's keep. Have some self respect. Davila being told he wasn't good enough and needs to turn the invite down; that's flat-out disgusting, objectively he WAS good enough, and he should never have accepted that. You want to talk life lessons you can take from training, one of the biggest is to stand up for yourself, to know that you are a capable person, and not be a bitch.

Only in martial arts would some grown men dream of taking orders like this. Even in business, where you are doing a paid job, nobody would tolerate this level of employee control that continues even after you quit. It's because people want a Magical Master, and to forget that this is, after all, just athletes training a niche sport, not samurai in Sengoku.

I don't know about this "7 expelled guys" thing, inform me?

 

[mataleaos]

Is it true Danaher is the one behind trying to keep the system secret?
I just saw Garry Tonon crucifying the guy who made that leg lock youtube series.
And these deathsquad guys are doing seminars so the system cant be that much of a secret.

They just want to maintain a competitive edge while they have it. It makes sense, and they won't have it forever. The info will get out and people will piece things together. And they do teach seminars to make money, but apparently there is a lot of stuff that they hold back on. Danaher said on facebook he wants to release an instructional but wants to wait to do it. Also to be fair to them, a lot of what they're holding back on is far above the average person's head it may not even be useful. Most people could go far with a basic knowledge of each position, a few simple transitions between them and the proper "breaking mechanics"

The seminar I went to. It's not that anything was expressly hidden. it's just that I know a lot of stuff already and it was clear they did not want to go any steps beyond simply answering the question asked. So the seminar was q and a style and they would do just enough to answer the question being asked. ie. if someone said "what grip are you using there" the answer would be "this grip here" but then no explanation why. And again to play devils advocate maybe they thought more details would be above our heads.

 

[Qtip inspector]

In case some of you guys haven't figured it out yet, many top tier coaches( usually worshipped online) are raging assholes. There are good guys out there, but I doubt it's the majority

 

[randomg1t]

I don't know about this "7 expelled guys" thing, inform me?

a bunch of dudes went to the event to support davila. upon returning to their gym they found their memberships terminated, for this exact reason. apparently, rooting for your friend qualifies as treason, and no traitors are allowed to train with danaher or any of the gyms associated with him.

if you still think danaher is in the right when you hear this, there is no helping you.

 

[NSchoke]

Bingo. I don't know how many analytic philosophers y'all have met, but they're typically not cuddly, humble people with a well balanced sense of their own abilities. And being a brilliant jiu jitsu mind has nothing to do with being a great person.

I think the same can be said about any top level coach. When you set the highest standards from yourself and those around you feelings will be hurt, but keep in mind these guys are all pro's. You can either lower your standards or accept that you're not for everyone and let people go where they belong, the right people will gravitate to you if you hold the line.

I think that's what we're seeing here. Danaher is saught out by World Champs from many disciplines, it's not because he's a nice guy.

 

[NSchoke]

I don't know about this "7 expelled guys" thing, inform me?

Almost all of them asked to be released from their contracts so they could follow Davila. BMAA obliged and Davila made an Instagram post throwing shade for it. If they hadn't released them they would have been complaining about that too. It really confirms Danahers post about not shaking hands.

There was a back and forth about it on facebook, it looks like its been taken down. 2 of the members seemed somewhat questionable, the others wanted to leave.

 

[mataleaos]

Wasn't Mike invited to EBI because he won the finisher tournament which was being billed on some level as a qualifier to EBI?

That's exactly right. And he subbed all 4 of his opponents in regulation, and got at least 1 choke, 1 arm lock, and 1 leg lock. Showed a lot of versatility and when I saw it i assumed he was the next up and comer of the Danaher group since he did so well and Eddie Cummings was his corner man for the event.

 

[Peteyandjia]

Almost all of them asked to be released from their contracts so they could follow Davila. BMAA obliged and Davila made an Instagram post throwing shade for it. If they hadn't released them they would have been complaining about that too. It really confirms Danahers post about not shaking hands.

There was a back and forth about it on facebook, it looks like its been taken down. 2 of the members seemed somewhat questionable, the others wanted to leave.

Things like this show there are two sides to every story, even the stories within the story. If they asked to be released, that is a different matter.

Without knowing anyone involved, and only going by what I've read, I do think Danaher's got a point about this guy going against his school's wishes, especially with that detailed story of Davila's direct teacher Pelinkovic putting so much time/effort/money into Davila. Paying for his privates with Danaher, giving him a job with good pay, paying for his flights & hotels to compete, I mean that is above & beyond. To go against that guy after years of training with him and accepting his kindnesses, just because you think EBI is going to make you a star, it just smacks of betrayal to me.

In fairness though, I don't know these guys. Just going off what I've read.

 

[Uchi Mata]

I think the same can be said about any top level coach. When you set the highest standards from yourself and those around you feelings will be hurt, but keep in mind these guys are all pro's. You can either lower your standards or accept that you're not for everyone and let people go where they belong, the right people will gravitate to you if you hold the line.

I think that's what we're seeing here. Danaher is saught out by World Champs from many disciplines, it's not because he's a nice guy.

I feel like you're missing the point entirely (and IIRC you're a Renzo guy so I doubt you're disinterested). The issue isn't Danaher being nice on the mat or not, it's the degree to which his actions displayed a cult leader-like need to control his situation, and his willingness to inflict pretty severe collateral damage (kicking anyone who supported Davila out of Renzo's association entirely) to reassert his power. This wasn't about high standards, this was about a sometime student entering a tournament he was invited to that Danaher didn't want him to enter for reasons of his own, and then inflicting severe retribution when this guy didn't just fall in line. If Danaher doesn't want to coach him anymore, fine. In general I respect the right of a coach to choose who is and is not on his mat. But that doesn't imply that it's appropriate in any way to blacklist that guy's friends simply because they are his friends. Personally I think it was inappropriate of Danaher to tell Davila that he wasn't good enough to go and trying to stop him when he clearly was good enough (he won the Finshers tournament to gain entry, and he made it to the finals), but what puts it over the edge is kicking his buddies out too.

 

[anaconda]

I saw this post early on, rolled my eyes, and though "more John Danaher arrogance and nonsense." I didn't post though since so many love Danaher and Tonon et al and didn't feel like it.

Reading through the thread now, I'm so relieved that so many of us can see through the BS and realize how annoying Danaher and his crew are. Not to take anything from his credibility or skills on the mat, since many people say he is very good - but from a personality perspective, from an arrogance point of view, and definitely from a cult standpoint I don't have much positive to say.

Indeed, many comparisons to the TLI attitude are apt - similar to TLI, the group started doing something which other people aren't focusing on to get ahead, which of course makes sense. In this case the crew focuses on no gi and leg locks from very early on which helps with defeating many opponents at smaller shows. At TLI, it was all about lower belts training like professionals and winning at the lower levels.

The second part is all about branding - medal chasers, Death Squad, all the same kind of crap.

And of course, finally, it's all about controlling the message and immediately getting rid of or blasting naysayers very publicly.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Is it true Danaher is the one behind trying to keep the system secret?
I just saw Garry Tonon crucifying the guy who made that leg lock youtube series.
And these deathsquad guys are doing seminars so the system cant be that much of a secret.

vid?

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I saw this post early on, rolled my eyes, and though "more John Danaher arrogance and nonsense." I didn't post though since so many love Danaher and Tonon et al and didn't feel like it.

Reading through the thread now, I'm so relieved that so many of us can see through the BS and realize how annoying Danaher and his crew are. Not to take anything from his credibility or skills on the mat, since many people say he is very good - but from a personality perspective, from an arrogance point of view, and definitely from a cult standpoint I don't have much positive to say.

Indeed, many comparisons to the TLI attitude are apt - similar to TLI, the group started doing something which other people aren't focusing on to get ahead, which of course makes sense. In this case the crew focuses on no gi and leg locks from very early on which helps with defeating many opponents at smaller shows. At TLI, it was all about lower belts training like professionals and winning at the lower levels.

The second part is all about branding - medal chasers, Death Squad, all the same kind of crap.

And of course, finally, it's all about controlling the message and immediately getting rid of or blasting naysayers very publicly.

I can definitely agree with this view.

 

[Nnedd]

a bunch of dudes went to the event to support davila. upon returning to their gym they found their memberships terminated, for this exact reason. apparently, rooting for your friend qualifies as treason, and no traitors are allowed to train with danaher or any of the gyms associated with him.

if you still think danaher is in the right when you hear this, there is no helping you.

Wow.

That seems shitty.

 

[Gabicho]

They essentially are pretending to be managers of the athletes/students/affiliates/teachers or some sort of sports association/federation with rankings and rules about selection and competition criteria, which they are not.
They should start making "contracts", so that the "restrictions" and "benefits" of being in their team are very specific and clear.

I don't know if Davila was straightforward with them about participating in EBI, but the reaction is much worse.
If someone from my team is invited into EBI - even if he is not the best of the team- i'd be very glad and accept the challenge for the team. If i want other, better competitors to participate, i'll call EBI and tell them i have these other bunch of guys who are even better and would like to compete next time.

And what i disagree the most, is to say he had little to no chance of winning EBI judging from results at the gym, and because of that, he was non-deserving and someone bettershould go. Sounds like the best way to discourage someone and to rout them out of your club. Not to mention that there are gym sharks who melt down in competition, and there are gym sloths who kill opposition in tournaments, styles make fights, he might get lucky, or, all in all, just learn from the experience.

 

[Pixelated Porn]

Cultspeak.

I take it you think the other 7 guys who were expelled were also disrespectful and disloyal, and so received just punishment for their betrayal of The Group. By cult standards, true, the purge was warranted since these traitors 'disrupted group harmony' and 'defied Dear Leader,' which is 'most disrespectful.'

I can't take seriously a grown man who lets another grown man treat him like this and, even worse, makes excuses for it--particularly in the context of a niche sport that you pay to train, not a medieval daimyo's keep. Have some self respect. Davila being told he wasn't good enough and needs to turn the invite down; that's flat-out disgusting, objectively he WAS good enough, and he should never have accepted that. You want to talk life lessons you can take from training, one of the biggest is to stand up for yourself, to know that you are a capable person, and not be a bitch.

Only in martial arts would some grown men dream of taking orders like this. Even in business, where you are doing a paid job, nobody would tolerate this level of employee control that continues even after you quit. It's because people want a Magical Master, and to forget that this is, after all, just athletes training a niche sport, not samurai in Sengoku.

Yeah, in business you just take what projects you want no matter what your bosses say.
In the NFL players just run their own plays and give no regard to coaches.
On wrestling teams the coach does not pick the wrestlers to put on at a meet.

In racing there is not primary and secondary racer for a team.

Not every sport is fucking tennis and not every institution is a cult and you are really using the word cult in a way to make it nothing.

I guess if you are a lawyer and are not the owners/partners that you just pick and chose your cases because if you just take the cases your bosses bring to you, guess what? You are in a cult.....oooooooooooooooooohhhh