Why is the end of round more important than the first 4 minutes?

[usernamee]

because that's when the judges tend to wake up a bit because they know they have to turn in their scoring cards so they'll perk up and have a look who's winning

 

[xhaydenx]

This is all speculation. You don't know what caused the judges to score the rounds the way did in those fights.

If you've watched enough fights and seen it happen enough times, then you pretty much do know what caused the judges to score it the way they did.

By your logic, then even if one fighter clearly won a round, no one can ever ever assume how they actually won it because the judges don't explain their reasoning and it's all just speculation.

 

[xhaydenx]

the yana fight is a bad example because she actually did more damage in those 30 seconds than ketlen did the entire round.
getting dropped is a pretty big factor too and justifies giving the round imo

How is the Yana fight not a good example? Yana was losing that entire round, then did something at the very end of it that was the only thing that could have won her that round, which it did on 2 judges scorecards.

What she did and what the individual scorecards were for that round show that she did exactly what we're talking about in this thread.

I do and don't agree that getting dropped on its own justifies giving an entire round. In Jimmie vs Yan, I thought it was fair enough. Jimmie was winning clearly, but he wasn't dominating Yan by any means, and not according to all areas of the scoring criteria. In that case, Yan dropping him was enough to win that round.

But if Jimmie had been destroying Yan it would have been different. If he had done everything but drop Yan, and then got dropped himself right at the end in a wild exchange or something, he wouldn't deserve the round.

 

[JSN]

In all seriousness, it is not supposed to count more, but you can almost guarantee that it will be for a couple reasons:

Recency bias- you straight up remember more of the recent past than further out.

If a fighter is in a compromising situation when the bell sounds, it’s easy to assume they were saved by the bell. Even though most fights have some shifts in power, we see how they play out when someone escapes the bottom of a sub, or reverses position or whatever. But when around ends and say one guy has the mount, it’s very easy to make up a narrative that if the bell hadn’t happened that he would have been stuck under his opponent eating punishment until the fight was stopped.

 

[HuskySamoan]

watch the rivera vs yan fight. free on youtube

rivera arguably won a majority of that fight. but he got dropped with a few seconds to go at the end of the 1st and 2nd.

People don't remember but Rivera had a lot of success in that fight, particularly with his boxing in the pocket. Seemed to have the quicker and straighter punches.

 

[Morning Star]

Because it's fresher in your mind. Not defending it btw.

 

[Emjay]

By your logic, then even if one fighter clearly won a round, no one can ever ever assume how they actually won it because the judges don't explain their reasoning and it's all just speculation.

You can ASSUME all you want. You guys like to pretend you KNOW stuff that you can only assume or speculate about.

That whole "if you've watched enough fights..." stuff is a juvenile crap argument that doesn't explain WHY someone did something.

 

[xhaydenx]

You can ASSUME all you want. You guys like to pretend you KNOW stuff that you can only assume or speculate about.

That whole "if you've watched enough fights..." stuff is a juvenile crap argument that doesn't explain WHY someone did something.

When things like that happen over and over again, and you see it happening over and over again, it becomes more than just some baseless assumption.

Like, I said, then by your logic you can't assume anything at all with any accuracy unless you have confirmation. Is that right?

2 judges gave Yana the third round over Ketlen in their recent fight in a round where Ketlen had over 4 mins of ground control. Can we not assume that those 2 judges gave he the round for getting on top, landing the only significant strikes and doing the most damage in the round? Or would that be just juvenile too?

In the first round Ketlen also had over 4 mins of control time. Regardless of the control, Yana outlanded her that round by over 60 strikes. One judge gave her that round. There isn't any other way she could have been scored that round other than from the strikes she landed in the clinch and in controlled positions on the ground, but I suppose that would be juvenile too unless we get the judge who gave Yana that round to confirm it?

It's a process of elimination in both of those examples. It's not an assumption when when you know a result (that a judge did indeed score those rounds that way) and then proceed to remove all the other possibilities.

 

[Emjay]

When things like that happen over and over again, and you see it happening over and over again, it becomes more than just some baseless assumption.

Like, I said, then by your logic you can't assume anything at all with any accuracy unless you have confirmation. Is that right?

2 judges gave Yana the third round over Ketlen in their recent fight in a round where Ketlen had over 4 mins of ground control. Can we not assume that those 2 judges gave he the round for getting on top, landing the only significant strikes and doing the most damage in the round? Or would that be just juvenile too?

In the first round Ketlen also had over 4 mins of control time. Regardless of the control, Yana outlanded her that round by over 60 strikes. One judge gave her that round. There isn't any other way she could have been scored that round other than from the strikes she landed in the clinch and in controlled positions on the ground, but I suppose that would be juvenile too unless we get the judge who gave Yana that round to confirm it?

You're basing all of this on how YOU'RE judging the fight. So your argument is flawed from the beginning.

 

[daniel san]

I think that’s an exaggerated statement that has become a false truth after Rogan et al repeatedly mention it. However, if the fight is close or very little has happened in the round (like 10 significant strikes or less), then whoever shows aggression is rightfully so win that round.

 

[xhaydenx]

You're basing all of this on how YOU'RE judging the fight. So your argument is flawed from the beginning.

No, I'm not. I never said anything about how I judged the fight.

I'm telling you what happened in those rounds and what the end results were given by the judges. I'm then literally giving you stats that prove the only way those judges could have possibly scored it the way they did.

I wish I could have scored it for Ketlen, as I had money on her. I knew there was a chance she could win, but I've watched enough WMMA in particular to know exactly why she wasn't going to before the result was announced.

 

[Emjay]

No, I'm not. I never said anything about how I judged the fight.

I'm telling you what happened in those rounds and what the end results were given by the judges. I'm then literally giving you stats that prove the only way those judges could have possibly scored it the way they did.

I wish I could have scored it for Ketlen, as I had money on her. I knew there was a chance she could win, but I've watched enough WMMA in particular to know exactly why she wasn't going to before the result was announced.

Not necessarily in that example, but in general that's what you're doing.

You don't know what the judges are thinking. There's no argument for that.

 

[GoodBadHBK]

MMA judging is pretty bad, there's no real reason why anyone should attempt to explain it. I can't recall many fights where the guy who won the last 30 secs of a round won the round. Maybe if he had his opponent in deep trouble and nearly finished but that's really it.

 

[xhaydenx]

Not necessarily in that example, but in general that's what you're doing.

You don't know what the judges are thinking. There's no argument for that.

No offense to you, personally, but I think that's a piss poor argument.

Have you seen Thiago Moises vs Michael Johnson? In the first round Thiago went 0-3 on takedowns and landed just 1/16 of strikes thrown. MJ had him on the backfoot the entire round and landed 28/61 strikes for the round.

Knowing what we know about how the scoring criteria is supposed to be followed and what we've both likely seen in thousands of other fights, you don't think in a situation like that that we can assume, with pretty much 100% accuracy, how the judges scored that round?

 

[Emjay]

Knowing what we know about how the scoring criteria is supposed to be followed and what we've both likely seen in thousands of other fights, you don't think in a situation like that that we can assume, with pretty much 100% accuracy, how the judges scored that round?

Nope. I never assume because I'm an adult and I understand that I can't read minds.

 

[WildShrimper]

Because I suspect the judges are too busy playing candy crush to actually watch the fights until they hear the 10 second timer...

These judges have pretty much an awesome job, and still don't pay attention. They should fire some of them.

 

[MichaelT]

Show some actual examples, otherwise you're probably just complaining about a close round your boy lost

 

[xhaydenx]

Nope. I never assume because I'm an adult and I understand that I can't read minds.

It's got nothing to do with being an adult or not. It's knowledge, experience, patterns, and precedents.

If I hadn't eaten for days and you knew this, and then you watched me go to a food source and ate, would you not assume that I did so because I was hungry?

Or would that not be befitting of an adult who can't read minds as well?

 

[Terrorist]

Because the judges make poor judges

 

[sutherland]

If a fighter is winning the first 4 minutes but loses the last minute, and in most cases, even the last 30 seconds, the latter is awarded the round by judges.

I don’t get how a last minute takedown can erase an entire 4 minutes of winning.

I guess we’ll be seeing a ton of it once they add those time clocks in the corners for the fighters.

Kinda like how the last meter in a race is most important. As long as you win that ur Good