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Why is TDD usually consider outside of the "grappling" department?

migeru29

migeru29

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It seems to me that at least for many here and other forums consider the TDD something "outside" of the grappling discipline. The reason I'm saying this is because I keep reading stuff like "this X fighter has great striking skills and with a little bit of "TDD" he could be one of the best fighters"... meaning that you don't have to be a very good grappler in order to be great at TDD? So you only consider grappling what is "offensive grappling" but "defensive grappling" is not "real" grappling and can be trained separately?

As a Judo/Wrestling guy I can assure you that's totally BS. I understand that Mirko and other few examples might be the exception (even though Mirko was taken down by Sakuraba) but come on you just can't train TDD without being a complete grappler and be exceptional at it.

Grapplers usually don't need to use TDD but when they do just look at it: Woodley vs Maia, Colby vs Maia, GSP vs Shields, Lombard vs Shield, Akiyama vs Shields, Fedor vs Nogueira, etc. Turns out that they are exceptional at it and it doesn't mean that they are avoiding the grappling actually they are USING high level grappling skills to accomplish this. Unfortunately the BJJ discipline (just one part of grappling) taught us that grappling is always look to take the fight to the ground and always look for the submission (and that's just a point of view) but many of you take it as if that was the whole purpose of grappling and that's number one bullshit. Grappling in general (BJJ, Sambo, Judo, Wrestling, etc) is a lot more than just takedowns and submissions; there is standing control and ground control as well.
 
TDD is a form of striking.
 
migeru29 said:
Explain
Click to expand...

TDD is improved by throwing really heavy kicks at a bag like so

giphy.gif
 
I don't see it that way at all. Tdd is absolutely grappling. It might be defensive, but the guys with the best tdd usually tend to have great takedowns as well. To be great at one, you really need to understand both. If you don't have a solid understanding of offensive grappling, you'll get chewed up by high level grapplers no matter how good your tdd is.
 
You can be a complete newbie on the ground but if you have Aldo-esque TDD, it won't matter. So you can be an average all-around grappler but still be successful.
 
i believe you extrapolated what their intended meaning incorrectly. like this:
  1. posters say something with brevity
  2. they meant one thing (a) but because they used few words, it was not very specific / explicit
  3. therefore, you are forced to do a bit of interpretation
  4. and then you interpreted another thing (b)
they're just saying that guys like Hunt don't need to spend 10,000 hours working on rolling, instead they can and should just work 1000 hours on tdd.

i would argue that no one has even considered removing 'take down defense' from out of the 'grappling' umbrella except you.
 
Tdd is one element of anti-grappling, the ability to neutralize grappling scenarios.

It encompasses many elements and is more than just how well you sprawl, there are footwork elements to it and striking. For example, having an excellent timed uppercut is a part of TDD, even though it may seem like striking. Since an uppercut or knee can help prevent a takedown, it is included. Anti-grappling as a whole includes avoiding clinch engagements, takedowns, top game-entirely. which is why TDD is a subset of it. TDD specifically has to do with preventing positional changes due to takedowns.

But tl:dr, it is certainly grappling but not solely grappling.
 
This feels like a boogeyman/village idiot argument you've made up to argue against.
 
Not sure there is a bunch of people out there making the claim that TDD isn’t grappling.

But just in case, I’ll attempt to find examples of how it’s different.

One example is training how to lean against the cage and use it to deflect grappling. This is something a bit more exclusive to mma and ufc where one is using the cage as an object to prevent from falling backwards.

Another thing with TDD is that fighters intent to sprawl n brawl are using their grappling simply to avoid the ground completely. This is not the intention of Bjj, sambo and grappling sports but in mma, this is how you keep the fight standing.

Finally, fighters who train to simply pop back up to their feet rather than look for subs. Chuck Liddell, Jose Aldo, Keith jardine, etc fighters who always aimed to keep it on the feet.

Someone mentioned it’s like anti-grappling, that’s kinda makes sense lol. But it’s still octagon control imo
 
migeru29 said:
I understand that Mirko and other few examples might be the exception (even though Mirko was taken down by Sakuraba) but come on you just can't train TDD without being a complete grappler and be exceptional at it.
Click to expand...

Cro-Cop's TDD has always been overrated on here. Most of his hype came from stuffing a 40+ year old, one-dimensional Mark Coleman who telegraphed his TDs from 10 feet away. Besides Sak, Big Nog, Gonzaga and plenty of other guys were able to take him down. I guarantee Cain and Cormier would find ways to take him down.
 
I don't know about anyone else but I'm offended.

Still trying to decide what to have for dinner. Grilled chicken it is!
 
If anyone is saying that TDD is not exactly grappling, I could see an argument for it to fall under clinch work.
 
it's not...most people realize TDD is grappling, since you're grappling to avoid the TD.


????
 
It is grappling but let be honest good footwork, clinch defense, and strength and basics can take someone very far. Plenty of top fighters are shit on the ground but developed good takedown defense just by using there often strength advantage and othe ways.
 
mkt said:
Cro-Cop's TDD has always been overrated on here. Most of his hype came from stuffing a 40+ year old, one-dimensional Mark Coleman who telegraphed his TDs from 10 feet away. Besides Sak, Big Nog, Gonzaga and plenty of other guys were able to take him down. I guarantee Cain and Cormier would find ways to take him down.
Click to expand...

Ron waterman? He also stopped ron watterman and held off Fedor takedowns, Coleman not overrated he out wrestled everyone and finished Igor by knees. Coleman took fedor down
 
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